japaneses pilsner

[Grod1]

Hey guys its been a while since i posted, i have been brewing sour kettle ipas, stouts and traditional sour beers for the last 2 years. kinda getting bored and want to do something fresh and clean.First on the list is a rice lager this is the plan.Just curious to hear some feed back if there is any out there.
My Japanese Dry Pilsner
Style: Light American Lager
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 34 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 36 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.049 (
Efficiency: 74% (brew house)
OG:1.052FG:1.013ABV:5.08%IBU:23.31SRM 2.75
Mash pH 5.59
25 lb American - Pilsner 41.7%
10 lb Rice Syrup Solids 16.7%
4 lb Flaked Barley 32 6.7%
4 lb Flaked Rice 6.7%
2 lb American - White Wheat 3.3%
1 lb German - Acidulated Malt 1.7%
1 lb American - Carapils 1.7%
13 lb white rice 21.7%
60 lb Total
Hops
1.5 oz Sorachi Ace Pellet 12 Boil 60 min 10.17
1.5 oz Sorachi Ace Pellet 12 Boil 40 min 8.93
3.25 oz Crystal Pellet 3.3 Boil 10 min 2.2
5 oz Crystal Pellet 3.3 Boil 1 min 0.4
5.5 oz Sorachi Ace Pellet 12 Boil 1 min 1.61

after reading a article
https://www.beeradvocate.com/articles/10388/crossing-cultures-making-a-true-sake-beer-hybrid/ i am considering adding the rice to the fermenter in a large bag.
possible things to add to the 30 cup rice cooker.
( amalese enzyme, 10% 2row, 6P wort after a brew, non pasteurized sake)
i am planing on using 001 because that is what i have. buti am more then happy to get some yeast if someone one swears by one for this style of beer.I also have a 5 gallon wyeast 4134 sake yeast pitch that i was considering throwing in.
i would use Shanghai Yeast Balls but i do not want to dirty tha fermenter witrh bacteria.
i could ferment the rice with it for a couple of days before boiling if that woulkd help.

 

[rjs3273]

Oh my. A 34 gal fermentor. I'm guessing that's not an HDPE bucket.

Just this weekend I did my first ever super pale, rice adjunct, lager. I used a much simpler recipe than you are talking about though. It was roughly 60:40 malt and cooked rice, based on the recipe from the Briess website. It is fermenting now so I cannot comment on the result.

The idea of putting the grain in the fermenter is interesting. I have done it once before with barley malt, but not rice. I once tried mashing as normal and then fermenting that mash with the grain still in. I did not like the result at all. It had a strong, sweet, clammy, grainy taste that reminded me a lot of cheap American blended whisky. It was distinctive and I could imagine some people liking it, but it was the complete anathema of a clean crisp lager. It was distinctly murky tasting. Now I have no evidence at all that the same would be the case for simple white rice. I would guess that rice is almost 100% fermentable and could have a different effect. I think I would still expect a thicker, more grain like flavour though.

 

[bierhaus15]

You have a lot going on there, which may or may not work for what you are trying to do. I would take a much simpler approach if trying to approximate commercially available Japanese dry lagers.

A more typical recipe and process would be to use a very pale pilsner type malt with around 40% adjunct from flaked rice or rice solids, with 5-10% wheat starch (could use corn starch). Starting gravity is around 11P, and add amyloglucosidase enzyme to mash and wort to end up a FG around 0.999. Target 15-18 IBUs with a neutral bittering hop and ferment with a very clean and neutral lager yeast. The Mexican lager strain works great for this when fermented cold, 48-50F. You'll end up with a beer around 5.9% and to that dilute with deaerated water to achieve an ABV of 5.0% (about 15% dilution). Filter/fine and carbonate.

 

[Iseneye]

I dislike Japanese lagers but that grain bill looks way too complex for what I have tasted before. However you brew big batches so must know what you are doing.

 

[Grod1]

i personally dislike Japaness lagers as well.but my ambient temperature is ranging from 50-60 so i am trying to use that while i can. I have brewed imperial stouts, sour kettle ipas and traditional sours every almost every week for 3 years now.I need a change up. Its a bit more complex, but i tried to tone it down as much as i could. Over35% rice as the sugar content with less than 15% barley/wheat/corn for a bit more depth with out going overboard.my revisited recipe that i just finished brewing is
34 gallons (fermentor volume)
OG1.052/FG1.013/ABV 5.13%/IBU29.85/SRM. 2.87
30 lb American - Pilsner 49.3%
13 lb Nishiki Premium Rice, Medium Grain 21.4%( 1 hour before mash)
10 lb Rice Syrup Solids 16.4%
3.3 lb Flaked Barley 5%
1.4 lb German - Acidulated Malt 2.3%
1.4 lb American - White Wheat 2.3%
1 lb American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) 1.6%
1 lb Flaked Corn 1.6%
60.8 lb Total
2 oz Sorachi Ace 60 min
2 oz Sorachi Ace 40 min`
4 oz Crystal 10 min
4 oz Crystal 1 min
5 oz Sorachi Ace 1 min
just as a flavor adjunct I am contemplating adding 750 ml of sho chiku bai nigori saki into the fermenter during primary or sometime along/after fermentation.(possibly directly just to one keg when racking)
my temp was going into the fermener at 59 so i stoped paying attention. when i looked at it again i was up to 76 so i will have to pitch tomorrow.i will add the wyeast 4134 sake yeast along with 001 because i have them on hand.
im thankful for those who responded and always appreciate the input. If anyone is interested i will post some pics/ share the ratings it gets.

 

[ebbelwoi]

Not sure if this is of particular interest to anyone, but under Japanese law, there are three main categories of beer, based on how much malt is used in the grain bill. The top category (i.e. the most expensive) is the beer category, which includes pretty much any Japanese lager you can find outside of Japan. The beers in this category must have at least 67% barley malt in the grain bill. That means any Japanese beer you've had also had at least 67% barley malt. Most of the homebrew recipes that I've seen for Japanese lagers have much higher contents of rice and other adjunct ingredients.

 

[Grod1]

great post man, i guess what i brewed is a "happoshu"( low-malt brew)because i have only 58% barley with the rest being rice,corn,wheat.
so far its tasting great. i will give it another two weeks before i keg it. I would like to dry hop with sorchi ace again but its already on the hoppier side for a pilsner.-but maybe not for a happoshu...

ebbelwoi i see your location is japan. can i bounce some names off you to see what makes the most seance. there seems to be a lot of discrepancies in the translation.
The word i would like to translate is Imposter.
Sagi-shi
Nisemono, 偽物
yamashi- 山師

 

[ebbelwoi]

My Japanese wife says itsuwarimono is probably the best choice for your purposes. We both think you could leave off the -mono part, though. Itsuwari Lager (偽りラガー) sounds pretty good. Nisemono is good, too, because it means 'fake' in the sense of 'knock-off'.

Edit: she also suggests Nanchatte Lager (なんちゃってラガー), and says it's more casual and cute.