It is time

[hops2it]

Tomorrow I'm trying my long awaited first AG batch, Edwort's Bee Cave Haus Pale Ale.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f66/bee-cave-brewery-haus-pale-ale-31793/

Couple questions. I'm planning to batch sparge. My plan was to add strike water, mash for 60 min, stir/vorlauf and drain cooler. Then add sparge water, stir/vorlauf, drain cooler.

Calculated strike water & temp is 14 qt@ 169.5* (figured cooler weight/dead space, etc). Calculated sparge water is 18.9 qt @168*.

So does that seem good? I figured the additions would be more equal since I checked the "use equal batch sizes" button so I'm a bit confused in this regard.

Also, I've heard many say they batch sparge with more like 180-190* water. Should I go with the Beersmith numbers or sparge with a higher temp? Anything else anyone can think of with the above info would also be appreciated.

 

[sketerbuck]

Whats your grain bill and mash temp.

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

Those numbers don't seem right to me unless you're using a mashout. Are you bringing your grains up to 170 before draining after the mash?

 

[hops2it]

Those numbers don't seem right to me unless you're using a mashout. Are you bringing your grains up to 170 before draining after the mash?

I just selected single infusion and no mash out. Mash temp is 152, grain bill is in the link above. Sorry I'd paste it here but I'm on my mobile right now. I can do it later though.

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

If I was brewing this recipe, I'd be using 14qts@ 154F (taking my system into account, yours may be a bit different) for the strike temp. Strike temp is the temp I would dough-in at to get my initial mash temp of 152F. After the hour is up, I would add another 6.5qts@212F to raise my grain bed temp to 170F. Vorlauf/drain.

At this point, I'd add whatever water I needed to bring my system up to the correct pre-boil volume. Your system will be different than mine, but on mine I'd add around another 3 gallons@170F. That's just off the top of my head though...not exact.

 

[mrk305]

My plan was to add strike water, mash for 60 min, stir/vorlauf and drain cooler. Then add sparge water, stir/vorlauf, drain cooler.



Mash, vorlauf and drain. You should not stir at the end of the mash. You should only stir when you add new water (and stir a lot) and then let it settle until you drain.

 

[JuanMoore]

I'm planning to batch sparge. My plan was to add strike water, mash for 60 min, stir/vorlauf and drain cooler. Then add sparge water, stir/vorlauf, drain cooler.

You may have the right idea, but just to clarify it should read more like: add strike water, add grains, stir like crazy, mash for 1 hr, vorlauf, drain, add sparge water, stir like crazy, vorlauf, drain.

I figured the additions would be more equal since I checked the "use equal batch sizes" button so I'm a bit confused in this regard.

That button refers to the sparge additions. It calculated your total sparge volume to be 18.9 qts, but since you're doing a single batch sparge there's nothing for it to be equal to. If you were doing a double batch sparge it would have told you to sparge with 9.45 qts the first round, and another 9.45 qts the second round.

Also, I've heard many say they batch sparge with more like 180-190* water. Should I go with the Beersmith numbers or sparge with a higher temp?

Some brewers like to either perform a mash-out (adding enough boiling water to raise the grist temp to ~168-170F), or use sparge water that's hot enough to have the same effect. The idea is to denature the enzymes so that activity stops and the mash profile is locked in. This has virtually no effect when batch sparging though, so whether you choose to do it or not is completely up to you. Since you're batch sparging the main thing you should be concerned with is hitting and maintaining your mash temp, the other temps aren't all that important.

I might suggest pre-heating the mash tun and striking with water closer to the desired mash temp. I've found that accurately calculating how much heat will be lost to the tun is difficult, and pre-heating is quick, easy and takes some of the guesswork out. I think Beersmith has a box you can check for using a pre-heated mash tun.

 

[hops2it]

Grain Bill
8 lbs. 2-Row Pale Malt
2 lbs. Vienna Malt
0.5 lb. Crystal 10L Malt

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: Nottingham
Yeast Starter: Nope
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter: Nope
Batch Size (Gallons): 5.5
Original Gravity: 1.051
Final Gravity: 1.011
IBU: 39
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 5 SRM

And thanks for correcting my procedure above, I shall stir only after adding water and stir like crazy after adding mash in water.

 

[hops2it]

One thing I've been a little apprehensive about is preboil gravity. Should I worry about this on my first attempt or skip it? I really only vaguely understand how to use it to adjust for OG even after significant reading on the subject.

In addition to the above, I'm wondering what exactly I should be checking/measuring on my first attempt in order to hopefully tweak my Beersmith settings to better reflect my equipment. Basically, all it's looking for in terms of data entry is OG, FG and batch volume (which as long as I hit my boil volume ok would be quantifying my boiloff estimate right?). Is this adequate or should I be aiming higher to ensure greater success the next time around?

 

[JuanMoore]

One thing I've been a little apprehensive about is preboil gravity. Should I worry about this on my first attempt or skip it? I really only vaguely understand how to use it to adjust for OG even after significant reading on the subject.

In addition to the above, I'm wondering what exactly I should be checking/measuring on my first attempt in order to hopefully tweak my Beersmith settings to better reflect my equipment. Basically, all it's looking for in terms of data entry is OG, FG and batch volume (which as long as I hit my boil volume ok would be quantifying my boiloff estimate right?). Is this adequate or should I be aiming higher to ensure greater success the next time around?

My advice would be to check and measure everything you can, but don't worry about it until after the brew day is over. Absolutely take a pre-boil gravity reading, but don't worry about adjusting it your first time around. You'll want to figure out your boil-off rate if you haven't already. If you measure and record ALL of your volumes it will be easy to figure out what all your equipment losses are later on. As far as beersmith goes, you'll mostly be dialing in the temp losses, so I'd take temps of the strike water before and after it makes it into the MLT, and mash temps after dough in, after any adjustments made, and again at the end of the mash before you vorlauf. Measure the actual volume of the first runnings, and use that to adjust your sparge volume to hit your pre-boil volume. I'd also suggest doing an iodine test on the first runnings if you can to ensure conversion is complete. Good luck, and make sure to post your results when it's all over.

 

[hops2it]

Ok, I'm in midbrew, got the first runnings drained out. I decided to take a page out of Denny's playbook and do a "pseudo-mashout" by raising my sparge temp to 183 which has the grain bed at 165. Should I let this settle for awhile before vorlaufing again and draining the tun?

 

[hops2it]

Ok, so I let it settle for about 10 mins and drained. Ended up right at 7 gallons which is the target. My preboil gravity is a little low unfortunately...1.037, Beersmith estimates 1.044. I have 0.5 lbs of DME, should I add it to the boil or forget it?

 

[Sean0301]

Forget it

 

[hops2it]

I ended up adding it but things only got worse. Here's the details...

Hit my strike temp ok, mashed for an hour at 152, lost one degree to 151. Took an iodine test at 45 min and it was good. Volume of first cooler drain was 2.5 gallons, added 4.5 gallons to mash tun, stirred like crazy, vorlaufed and drained and ended up with 7 gallons in the kettle as designed.

As noted above, preboil gravity was low at 1.037 (target 1.044). Added the 0.5 lb DME just after the boil started and all went well with the boil itself. Ended up with 5.5 gallons when all was said and done which also matched my batch target. Cooled to 63, aerated and drained into the fermentor. OG was only 1.04 with a target of 1.05. Definitely feeling dejected at this point.

Pitched yeast and called it a wrap but this is going to be some weak beer. I would also add that I calibrated my buckets so I'm very confident in my volumes. Only thing I'm not confident in was the grain crush. I'm not set up for it yet and a few of the grains I checked seemed uncrushed. Lost a little confidence today but at least my temps & volumes were good so I should be all set for future batch calcs in that regard.

 

[dchmela]

You could always add a pound or so of honey once the ferment starts kicking in. It will up you gravity, ferment out completely and give you a hint of in the nose.

Congrats on your first AG!

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

It sounds like overall you had a great brew session. You hit all your numbers, which is normally the hardest thing to do for new AGers.

You're probably right about your crush. It plays a huge role in efficiency. Figure that into your calculations for next time, and you'll hit your numbers perfectly. I would definately start thinking about buying a good mill in the meantime. Using the mill at your LHBS will get you by, but since so many people use it, it's hard to get consistant crushes.

 

[hops2it]

Yeah, I'm thinking I need a mill since I hate relying on other people's equipment. What would you guys recommend for a mill? I plan to do 5-6 gallon batches if that plays into it.

 

[mrduna01]

Yeah, I'm thinking I need a mill since I hate relying on other people's equipment. What would you guys recommend for a mill? I plan to do 5-6 gallon batches if that plays into it.

I use the mill at the homebrew store to crush grain that I buy in bulk and then pick up the hops and yeast in the store. The shop is fine with this and it saves me time and trouble not to mention money. I usually just add 5 percent or so to the grain bill which takes care of any efficiency problems.

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

I use the mill at the homebrew store to crush grain that I buy in bulk and then pick up the hops and yeast in the store. The shop is fine with this and it saves me time and trouble not to mention money. I usually just add 5 percent or so to the grain bill which takes care of any efficiency problems.

I think the point of having your own mill is to eliminate the inconvenience of having to crush in-store, and also to get rid of that extra 5% you speak of. Money is money, if I don't have to buy an extra pound of grain, I'm happy. Besides...even adding 5% is no guarantee that you'll consistantly hit the right efficiency.

Yeah, I'm thinking I need a mill since I hate relying on other people's equipment. What would you guys recommend for a mill? I plan to do 5-6 gallon batches if that plays into it.

It depends on how much money you have to spend. I use the Monster Mill MM3 and I love it. I consistantly hit about 85% efficiency. I know there's a lot of people out there using Corona mills that are less than $50, but I'm not a fan of them. I think the damage they do to the husk is pretty severe.

 

[mrduna01]

I think the point of having your own mill is to eliminate the inconvenience of having to crush in-store, and also to get rid of that extra 5% you speak of. Money is money, if I don't have to buy an extra pound of grain, I'm happy. Besides...even adding 5% is no guarantee that you'll consistantly hit the right efficiency.

It depends on how much money you have to spend. I use the Monster Mill MM3 and I love it. I consistantly hit about 85% efficiency. I know there's a lot of people out there using Corona mills that are less than $50, but I'm not a fan of them. I think the damage they do to the husk is pretty severe.

True, money is money but in my particular circumstance I'm better off not buying a mill. The 5 % is, for me usually only a buck or so... I'm not breaking the bank. I saved much more than that buying in bulk. But I always have to go to the shop for some reason either way so the hassle factor is non existent as well. Aside from hops and yeast which I never keep on hand, I am always needing odds and ends like sanatizer, cleaner, bungs, hoses, disconnects, Irish moss, adjuncts and so forth. If I will be there anyway, which I will, my personal experience is that it's no trouble at all and cost effective to grab some grain and use the store mill.