DSmith
Well-Known Member
The probe controlling the air temperature was not touching anything. I zip-tied it to a rack in the freezer so it wouldn't move when I closed the door on the wire.
Issue with A419 and consistent temperature
- Thread starter canihaveurpants
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Thanks for doing this Dsmith. You can really see how stable the wort(water for this experiment) temps were with the on off cycles, the +2-2.5 degree temp swings are gone.
I think you reversed the labels in the graph key, the purple line(with the big temp swings) I believe is the air temps, and the black line(smoothly dropping) the water insulated probe temps.
One other thing you can see is the wort(water again here) temp is still in the process of dropping to the setpoint. It would be nice to see the wort(water) temps for some period after the temps have stabilized at the setpoint.
Thanks again Dsmith, this is the best data I've seen for probe in the air vs insulated probe. I don't think there is any question now as to which method holds the wort temps more stable.
DSmith
Well-Known Member
Good catch, fixed the label on the graph.
It would just as stable (+/-0.2F) when the water reached the setpoint. I stopped this experiment already though. I will try fermenting an ale with the probe controlling the air temperature and post a plot in August with the set-point changes that were needed to maintain a 60F fermenter temperature.
It would just as stable (+/-0.2F) when the water reached the setpoint. I stopped this experiment already though. I will try fermenting an ale with the probe controlling the air temperature and post a plot in August with the set-point changes that were needed to maintain a 60F fermenter temperature.
hulkavitch
Well-Known Member
Interesting! However, i am not convinced with the water, we all know that a fermenting wort is much more dynamic than water. I will what for the actual fermentation experiment before I change my methods.
Another point, the first 24-48 hours are the most important to controlling fermentation. This method seems to take to long for the wort to stabilize. And with fermenting wort as opposed to a temperture stable bucket of water I hypothesize that the controller will be "chasing" the wort for well over 24 hours before it stabilizes. And when it does it will be because the yeast are less active and no longer raising the temperature.
Another point, the first 24-48 hours are the most important to controlling fermentation. This method seems to take to long for the wort to stabilize. And with fermenting wort as opposed to a temperture stable bucket of water I hypothesize that the controller will be "chasing" the wort for well over 24 hours before it stabilizes. And when it does it will be because the yeast are less active and no longer raising the temperature.
DSmith
Well-Known Member
I agree the beer takes a long time to stabilize and the heat of fermentation complicates things further. You'd have to chill to below the desired fermentation temperature, move the probe to the air, pitch yeast and hope it stabilizes close to the temperature you want.
The Love TSS2 has very small differentials that wouldn't cycle the freezer too much if set well in cooling mode only. Incorporating heating seems to take more experimenting and understanding the unit's variables. I'm a fan of controlling with the probe on the fermentor and accepting the 2F-3F temperature swings with the A419 or moving to a unit the has a smaller differential. Attenuation has not suffered from those swings, 75%->90% lately.
The Love TSS2 has very small differentials that wouldn't cycle the freezer too much if set well in cooling mode only. Incorporating heating seems to take more experimenting and understanding the unit's variables. I'm a fan of controlling with the probe on the fermentor and accepting the 2F-3F temperature swings with the A419 or moving to a unit the has a smaller differential. Attenuation has not suffered from those swings, 75%->90% lately.
DSmith
Well-Known Member
Here's a chart of cold crashing with the probe insulated-over on the side of the carboy. I believe this method is best to drive the beer temperature to the set-point quickly. The air temperature dropped to <10F and froze my vodka-filled airlock for a while. I opened the freezer and pulled the airlock stopper out for a second to equalize the pressure when the vodka was frozen.
The actual measured differential of 2F (1F set on the A419) is fine in my opinion for cold crashing and lagering. I don't keg, but I imagine that would also be more than fine for a kegerator. The freezer cycles every 3 hours.
The actual measured differential of 2F (1F set on the A419) is fine in my opinion for cold crashing and lagering. I don't keg, but I imagine that would also be more than fine for a kegerator. The freezer cycles every 3 hours.
hulkavitch
Well-Known Member
That is cool. Look like if you set your controller 2 degrees colder than what you want you will be right on.
DSmith
Well-Known Member
The A419 read 35F where my type k thermocouples and data logger show a little higher. There's always measurement error between devices, what's more interesting is the trends.
I'm going to place an order for the Love TSS2 & probe and see if I can utilize its smaller differentials to keep tighter control during fermentation using the insulated-over probe on the fermenter wall for control. The A419 has never short cycled my freezer and the actual differential seems to be 2-3F when the controller is set for 1F.
I'm going to place an order for the Love TSS2 & probe and see if I can utilize its smaller differentials to keep tighter control during fermentation using the insulated-over probe on the fermenter wall for control. The A419 has never short cycled my freezer and the actual differential seems to be 2-3F when the controller is set for 1F.
DSmith
Well-Known Member
I have the TSS2 controller working now and have logged equivalent data on the A419 and TSS2 each attempting to keep a carboy at 45F (cold conditioning a Belgian Tripel).
The A419 results in a 3F temperature rise (1F differential setting) with the probe insulated-over on the side of the carboy.
The TSS2 results in a 1.5F temperature rise (1F differential setting for cooling) with the probe insulated-over on the side of the carboy.
My TSS2 setting were a first-guess. I think they can be improved on and it's nice to have parameters that are not bottomed out. I plan on labeling the controller better, but the right outlet is always on, the left outlet is split for the 2 relays (protecting the controller with 15 amp and 5 amp fuses). The switches are defeats for the 2 relays, a fancy way of unplugging the freezer/heater to stop them from working. Fermentation should be the only time they should both work. My thought is that will decrease some of the parameter editing, especially in cases of cold pitching and letting the fermentation naturally rise to the setpoint.
The A419 results in a 3F temperature rise (1F differential setting) with the probe insulated-over on the side of the carboy.
The TSS2 results in a 1.5F temperature rise (1F differential setting for cooling) with the probe insulated-over on the side of the carboy.
My TSS2 setting were a first-guess. I think they can be improved on and it's nice to have parameters that are not bottomed out. I plan on labeling the controller better, but the right outlet is always on, the left outlet is split for the 2 relays (protecting the controller with 15 amp and 5 amp fuses). The switches are defeats for the 2 relays, a fancy way of unplugging the freezer/heater to stop them from working. Fermentation should be the only time they should both work. My thought is that will decrease some of the parameter editing, especially in cases of cold pitching and letting the fermentation naturally rise to the setpoint.
