Isolated Yeast (Tree House): How to Identify and Characterize?

[chrisisnapping]

not liking the blend of 1pkg juice (1318) and 2g T-58, it's tart af. did 66for 5 days, and slowly ramped it 1 degree/day until 70 and cold crashed. Mash pH was 5.24 or so.

HMM, may be my tastebuds or my glass (despite washing it between beers), but a known good beer (EQ dhop something or other) also has a tart taste to it to me today, hmmm

 

[couchsending]

T-58 I don’t think would make it tart... the “tartness” comes from S-04. It produces more acid than most yeasts. 1318 however shouldn’t.

 

[DrOfBrews]

EQ beers (IPAs) to me are super tart. interesting, most my big time beer friends cant figure out why anyone would line up for their stuff...i don't mind their beers, but they aren't anything special or worth seeking out

 

[chrisisnapping]

EQ beers (IPAs) to me are super tart. interesting, most my big time beer friends cant figure out why anyone would line up for their stuff...i don't mind their beers, but they aren't anything special or worth seeking out

i never really picked that up in the (very few) beers from them I have had - with the exception of the previous post, granted I've had that particular beer quite a few times and never picked it up. I do enjoy the hop flavor that they seem to get in their beers. I would definitely take a TH, Trillium, OH IPA over their beer though.

I think a big part of their "hype" is their morning ummm, I guess tailgate? Every saturday that have bottle shares, bbq, egg sandwiches, etc. as people drink, eat, and wait a few hours before they start selling. Not my thing, i prefer to get in and get out (especially since they don't have a tap room, yet), but people seem to love doing bottle shares in the early morning..

 

[NJGeorge]

This is the 100% wb-06 batch 6.8%. Brewed on the 10th. fermenter set at 78F. Pitched 1.15 grams in about 3 gal. I’m getting the slightest hint of clove but it’s barely noticeable. Some ripe banana but also just a fruit sweet aroma maybe a little melon. When I first tried this before cold conditioning it had some fusels but they have seem to subsided. Slight sweetness and tartness but not overwhelming. The hops are some what muted for using 9oz in a 3 gal batch. It will be interesting to see how this is once blended with the so4/t-58 batch.

 

[DrOfBrews]

i never really picked that up in the (very few) beers from them I have had - with the exception of the previous post, granted I've had that particular beer quite a few times and never picked it up. I do enjoy the hop flavor that they seem to get in their beers. I would definitely take a TH, Trillium, OH IPA over their beer though.

I think a big part of their "hype" is their morning ummm, I guess tailgate? Every saturday that have bottle shares, bbq, egg sandwiches, etc. as people drink, eat, and wait a few hours before they start selling. Not my thing, i prefer to get in and get out (especially since they don't have a tap room, yet), but people seem to love doing bottle shares in the early morning..

Ah i didnt know that about the saturday thing. i am planning a trip to visit them end of summer. I had one day old fluctuation and i thought that was really great, that was back in November, got some tartness. but i just had some MC2 and dHop 3, both of which were super tart to me. I still enjoyed them, but sharing it at a beer club about 7 of my friends were kind of surprised by the beers. They have their own uniqueness i think, but i would choose others over them at this point. I really enjoy OH beers definitely worth the hype. Monkish IPAs are fantastic as well. i asked this question before but got crickets, who had tree house in 2012? anyone know how those beers compared to the best from monson? from my understanding and pictures they were quite clear/clearer than what I know tree house for. recently opened a eureka from 10/26/17 and it was hazy as can be....

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

This is the 100% wb-06 batch 6.8%. Brewed on the 10th. fermenter set at 78F. Pitched 1.15 grams in about 3 gal. I’m getting the slightest hint of clove but it’s barely noticeable. Some ripe banana but also just a fruit sweet aroma maybe a little melon. When I first tried this before cold conditioning it had some fusels but they have seem to subsided. Slight sweetness and tartness but not overwhelming. The hops are some what muted for using 9oz in a 3 gal batch. It will be interesting to see how this is once blended with the so4/t-58 batch.

Awesome man! I am really interested to hear about the blends.

How did you split up the 9 oz of hops?

 

[NJGeorge]

Awesome man! I am really interested to hear about the blends.

How did you split up the 9 oz of hops?

Used pretty much all Citra, Apollo and a little bit of simco.
1/2ml hop shot at bittering
2oz at flame out
2oz Whirlpool
2oz first dry hop day after fermentation started
3oz at day 4
Fermented in the keg with that clear beer float thing with screen on it. Capped it on day seven and into the fridge day 8. Capped too late..

 

[chieftain]

I'm taking another another shot at this tonight, with the staggered pitch, only I'm subbing Munich for the WB-06. Citra and mosaic for hops, 2 row/white wheat/carafoam/a little 15 Crystal.

 

[Jmash]

Has anyone bought Treehouse lately? I was there last Thursday. Bought a bunch of Julius and Green and I'm very disappointed. Bitter and not one hint of bubblegum in any that I've had. I had a similar experience a couple of months ago but not nearly this bad.

 

[chieftain]

Has anyone bought Treehouse lately? I was there last Thursday. Bought a bunch of Julius and Green and I'm very disappointed. Bitter and not one hint of bubblegum in any that I've had. I had a similar experience a couple of months ago but not nearly this bad.

Had Hurricane a few weeks ago. Knocked my socks off. But a bit disappointed with the Green, yes.

 

[couchsending]

I was there Tuesday and Thursday but have yet to crack a can other than a Bright I got on Tuesday. Got draft pours twice, none were overly bitter. I have never gotten any bubblegum from TH beers personally. Although I don’t get to drink them that often. Did drink an East Hill on Monday night that was surprisingly dry and bitter.

That being said Catharsis was pretty insane. Just had an Everett and I preferred Catharsis by a long shot.

 

[stickyfinger]

A friend just brought back some beers from Tree House for me to try yesterday. We tried four beers - Alter Ego, East Hill APA, Super Typhoon and Bright.

The one thing that stood out to me is that the yeast is a huge part of the flavor! The East Hill in particular had a very intense Belgiany character, kind of a phenolic, medicinal, band-aid character (not in a bad way just very Belgiany.) I was shocked. Now I know what you guys are talking about with mixing the yeasts.

I also noticed that Bright had much less of that character, East Hill the most. Super Typhoon and Alter Ego had some of it for sure but were much better than the other two. The hop intensity seemed to be much greater, and they were much hazier and thicker. I liked the Super Typhoon most I think. Anyway, I'm not sure I love the Belgian character, but in the right ratio it adds something for sure. I wonder if it is hard for them to control it in a beer or if they are making every beer exactly as they want it every time? The East Hill was almost offensively Belgian in character to the point that I would call it a Belgian Pale Ale!

Oh, I also got a ton of bubblegum in one of them, I think the East Hill.

 

[NJGeorge]

Any updates on people’s brews or even on recent TH beers they’ve tried?

 

[The_Dirty_Spring]

Any updates on people’s brews or even on recent TH beers they’ve tried?

My most recent attempt at dry yeast combo (91% S04 / 6% T58 / 3% WB06) and spunded (to 30psi starting day 3) started out too Belgian/phenolic, but with really great mouthfeel and appearance. After about a month those phenolics settled down and the esters have blended with hops into a really nice beer. I’m tempted to DH again in keg since last charge was 4-5 weeks ago, just to see what effect that might have. I did “round up” when measuring my adjunct dry yeasts because they’d spent some time in freezer—shouldn’t have done that. Lesson learned. I’ll probably do 94% / 3% / 3 % next time. My attempts have come close but the biggest gaps are A) making that brilliant malt/bread backbone pop and B) creating the bubblegum-meets-marshmallow flavors that are burned into my brain from first sips of Haze circa Spring 2015 (the marshmallow is the dragon I’m chasing).


Notes on other strains in this style:


WLP095 Burlington: terrible. In two attempts, both carried very odd, very off fermentation flavors. Savory, umami, soy sauce meets rotten lettuce. I doubt this was my hops, as the batches featured different blends that have performed well with other yeasts. This is most definitely NOT Conan. [Anyone have inside info on source?]


WY1350 Denny’s Favorite: great beer, but probably not ideal for the style. It performed exactly as described, creating a nice creamy full body, but it belongs among the West Coast style family. Imagine S05/Chico with a little body boost. I imagine it would be great in darker beers.


WLP007 Dry English: one of my favorite home brews, but strangely not exhibiting hallmark NE style character. Despite excessive DH during and after fermentation, not super hazy. Flavor profile a beautiful blend of east meets west. Not super juicy despite Simcoe, Galaxy, Vic, Ella.


WY1318 London III: you all know this one. It’s great. It’s predictable. It’s easy to identify. If I had to pick a favorite this would have to be it, but I get just a little bored after a few days. I haven’t played with Conan in a couple years so recently picked up Imperial Barbarian.


Has anyone tried Windsor in combination? Munich Classic instead of 06?

 

[Sawhorse-Josh]

I have tried Windsor with Munich (not Munich Classic) and Abbaye. (80/10/10 i believe, fermented on the warm side). Was a very nice IPA. Not TH nice but very enjoyable. It was not excessively 'wheat yeasty' from the Munich nor Belgiany from the Abbaye but most ppl have had better success with less than 10%.

 

[Sawhorse-Josh]

This is the 100% wb-06 batch 6.8%. Brewed on the 10th. fermenter set at 78F. Pitched 1.15 grams in about 3 gal. I’m getting the slightest hint of clove but it’s barely noticeable. Some ripe banana but also just a fruit sweet aroma maybe a little melon. When I first tried this before cold conditioning it had some fusels but they have seem to subsided. Slight sweetness and tartness but not overwhelming. The hops are some what muted for using 9oz in a 3 gal batch. It will be interesting to see how this is once blended with the so4/t-58 batch.

Only 1.15g in 3gal? Did you mean 11.5 or were you intending to underpitch?

 

[chieftain]

My most recent attempt at dry yeast combo (91% S04 / 6% T58 / 3% WB06) and spunded (to 30psi starting day 3) started out too Belgian/phenolic, but with really great mouthfeel and appearance. After about a month those phenolics settled down and the esters have blended with hops into a really nice beer. I’m tempted to DH again in keg since last charge was 4-5 weeks ago, just to see what effect that might have. I did “round up” when measuring my adjunct dry yeasts because they’d spent some time in freezer—shouldn’t have done that. Lesson learned. I’ll probably do 94% / 3% / 3 % next time. My attempts have come close but the biggest gaps are A) making that brilliant malt/bread backbone pop and B) creating the bubblegum-meets-marshmallow flavors that are burned into my brain from first sips of Haze circa Spring 2015 (the marshmallow is the dragon I’m chasing).


Notes on other strains in this style:


WLP095 Burlington: terrible. In two attempts, both carried very odd, very off fermentation flavors. Savory, umami, soy sauce meets rotten lettuce. I doubt this was my hops, as the batches featured different blends that have performed well with other yeasts. This is most definitely NOT Conan. [Anyone have inside info on source?]


WY1350 Denny’s Favorite: great beer, but probably not ideal for the style. It performed exactly as described, creating a nice creamy full body, but it belongs among the West Coast style family. Imagine S05/Chico with a little body boost. I imagine it would be great in darker beers.


WLP007 Dry English: one of my favorite home brews, but strangely not exhibiting hallmark NE style character. Despite excessive DH during and after fermentation, not super hazy. Flavor profile a beautiful blend of east meets west. Not super juicy despite Simcoe, Galaxy, Vic, Ella.


WY1318 London III: you all know this one. It’s great. It’s predictable. It’s easy to identify. If I had to pick a favorite this would have to be it, but I get just a little bored after a few days. I haven’t played with Conan in a couple years so recently picked up Imperial Barbarian.


Has anyone tried Windsor in combination? Munich Classic instead of 06?

My version that's currently bubbling along was 1 package of S04 to start, at 61F for 2.5 days, then raised the temp to 68 and added 2g of T58 and 1g of Munich. This was for 5 gallons of 1.069 wort.

 

[NJGeorge]

Only 1.15g in 3gal? Did you mean 11.5 or were you intending to underpitch?

Yes under pitched and fermented warm. Still has a little bit of clove but there is something about it that reminds me of TH and even EQ. If it had more hops, that little bit of clove might be hidden.

 

[NJGeorge]

Also, is there a hefe yeast that puts out minimal or almost no clove? I have made starters with yeast from the bottom of EQ cans and wow banana the first few days and then later tasting it reminded me of a wheat beer.

 

[chrisisnapping]

Also, is there a hefe yeast that puts out minimal or almost no clove? I have made starters with yeast from the bottom of EQ cans and wow banana the first few days and then later tasting it reminded me of a wheat beer.

no wheat? Basically we would want to limit ferulic acid - which is what the yeast hits to create 4-vinyl guaiacol - the source of clove. To up banana - perhaps slightly under pitching and fermenting at 72 to stress the yeast and boost esters? fermenting at say 72 may make a nice combo with 1318.

in related news, the 2g t-58 + juice/1318 beer i did is tasting okay, it's less tart than 2 weeks ago but still a little tart for my liking. Yesterday marked 2 weeks in the keg, so i'm excited to see how it's transforming when i pull a pour tomorrow.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

Also, is there a hefe yeast that puts out minimal or almost no clove? I have made starters with yeast from the bottom of EQ cans and wow banana the first few days and then later tasting it reminded me of a wheat beer.

Not sure about a hef yeast but Wyeast 1581 is a Belgian yeast that is supposed to be estery without phenolics. Never used it myself, but I see mentions of Belgian esters and no phenols on the forums. Not sure if that means bubblegum or banana or more plum/raisin/honey/rose. Didn't see any specific mentions of banana or bubblegum with it. It's a PC strain but Imperial has it in their regular lineup, called B51 - Workhorse. This one has been on my to-brew list for a while now.

 

[melville]

Any updates on people’s brews or even on recent TH beers they’ve tried?

I've been continuing to use 1318 with T-58 and WB-06, tinkering with the ratios of the drys to see what happens. Continue to play with kettle finings, and like what adding Rahr Pale malt adds when used in addition to Rahr 2-row. Something in all these variables has given me better head/retention which is nice.

 

[melville]

This was Vic Secret, Amarillo, Simcoe and a pinch of Mosaic.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

View attachment 574265
This was Vic Secret, Amarillo, Simcoe and a pinch of Mosaic.

That head is gorgeous, almost looks like a nitro tap!

 

[Jmash]

I've been continuing to use 1318 with T-58 and WB-06, tinkering with the ratios of the drys to see what happens. Continue to play with kettle finings, and like what adding Rahr Pale malt adds when used in addition to Rahr 2-row. Something in all these variables has given me better head/retention which is nice.

This latest batch I did half Irish ale malt. Quarter US 2 row. Quarter Marris Otter for the base malts. Getting nice breadiness, color, and head retention. I've been doing citra, galaxy vic secret and cashmere for a Greenish clone although I understand Galaxy is going to be really hard to obtain until the end of the year.

 

[couchsending]

2018 Galaxy will probably start showing up in the next month. Southern Hemishphere harvest happened a while ago.

I bet that’s why you’re seeing all these Green and variants lately. Gotta polish off that 17 crop before 18 arrives. That being said Green is not overly Galaxy to me. It’s there but there are a lot of other hops at play in that beer it seems.

 

[Jmash]

2018 Galaxy will probably start showing up in the next month. Southern Hemishphere harvest happened a while ago.

I bet that’s why you’re seeing all these Green and variants lately. Gotta polish off that 17 crop before 18 arrives. That being said Green is not overly Galaxy to me. It’s there but there are a lot of other hops at play in that beer it seems.

I just took an early sample of the last batch with a lot of vic secret and it's much closer. Like a planters punch beer

 

[couchsending]

I grabbed some Green while I was there last week. I feel like I detected a decent amount of simcoe. Vic Secret didn’t jump out at me but I’ve got a few more to try.

Surprisingly Julius didn’t seem to be very Citra dominant either..

 

[NJGeorge]

no wheat? Basically we would want to limit ferulic acid - which is what the yeast hits to create 4-vinyl guaiacol - the source of clove. To up banana - perhaps slightly under pitching and fermenting at 72 to stress the yeast and boost esters? fermenting at say 72 may make a nice combo with 1318.

in related news, the 2g t-58 + juice/1318 beer i did is tasting okay, it's less tart than 2 weeks ago but still a little tart for my liking. Yesterday marked 2 weeks in the keg, so i'm excited to see how it's transforming when i pull a pour tomorrow.

No wheat on perpose.

 

[melville]

Something I noticed with a mostly Vic Secret/galaxy beer (I can't stop with these two), adding enough Simcoe made these turn almost minty, not literal mint, but something like coolness — registers like sorbet. Hard to describe, but I think something like galaxy Simcoe and Amarillo get you in the ball park (plus the esters) of Green

 

[jakturner]

Also, is there a hefe yeast that puts out minimal or almost no clove? I have made starters with yeast from the bottom of EQ cans and wow banana the first few days and then later tasting it reminded me of a wheat beer.

Munich classic has 0 clove or phenols every time I’ve used it. Ive yet to use it in an ipa tho. While fermenting it smells like banana bread but that settles down to more of a English yeast fruitiness. Alway ferment at ambient air temp (74-75) with no air lock for 2-3 day to keep the top pressure down.

 

[NJGeorge]

I had a SAP last night and was blown away by how similar the yeast profile is to my so4 and t-58 blend. Very similar...

 

[zebradeltaone]

Has anyone bought Treehouse lately? I was there last Thursday. Bought a bunch of Julius and Green and I'm very disappointed. Bitter and not one hint of bubblegum in any that I've had. I had a similar experience a couple of months ago but not nearly this bad.

I went to TH on 5/19 and got Julius and AE. The AE is okay with some age on it (not as good as it used to be), but the Julius is DEFINITELY not the same. Exactly as you mentioned. It no longer has that signature bubblegum flavor.

It's a shame because that was my favorite out of the core 3.

 

[stickyfinger]

I went to TH on 5/19 and got Julius and AE. The AE is okay with some age on it (not as good as it used to be), but the Julius is DEFINITELY not the same. Exactly as you mentioned. It no longer has that signature bubblegum flavor.

It's a shame because that was my favorite out of the core 3.

i just had a batch of all of their beers from last friday. i never really have had their beers. i was shocked at the phenolics and bubblegum. way too much for my taste in ipa

 

[zebradeltaone]

i just had a batch of all of their beers from last friday. i never really have had their beers. i was shocked at the phenolics and bubblegum. way too much for my taste in ipa

I had C48 and another beer on tap there(currently forgetting the name) and they were fantastic, but this run of Julius was a let down for me. I got Haze and AE and they are good. Haze is spot on, but AE is not as juicy..maybe they have to age a bit more.

 

[stickyfinger]

i just had a batch of all of their beers from last friday. i never really have had their beers. i was shocked at the phenolics and bubblegum. way too much for my taste in ipa

i should say that i did enjoy doppelganger and haze. they’re weird and belgiany but they are good, complex. i didnt like green much, had a weird sulfury character to me. julius was ok but not up to the hype imho. they are SO unique though

 

[NJGeorge]

So I guess we can assume that the T-58 is probably not used for carbonation... Thoughts?

 

[melville]

So I guess we can assume that the T-58 is probably not used for carbonation... Thoughts?

One would assume not given the F-2, so the only logical conclusion to me is that it is there to add to the flavor profile during primary fermentation. Option B. is that it is added added at carbonation to ruin batches for would-be yeast harvesters (poison pill theory), which would mean they really don't want folks to know they use S-04 (or S-04 and WB-06) which to me would be a strange way of making beers.

Sampling the DNA in a Bright variant would clear this issue up a great deal I think.

 

[NJGeorge]

One would assume not given the F-2, so the only logical conclusion to me is that it is there to add to the flavor profile during primary fermentation. Option B. is that it is added added at carbonation to ruin batches for would-be yeast harvesters (poison pill theory), which would mean they really don't want folks to know they use S-04 (or S-04 and WB-06) which to me would be a strange way of making beers.

Sampling the DNA in a Bright variant would clear this issue up a great deal I think.

Agreed. I highly doubt it’s there to ruin batches as so many people point out that Belgian flavor. Try a Sap and you’ll know what I mean. Also the dudes pointed out his aha beer was a Belgian..