Isolated Yeast (Tree House): How to Identify and Characterize?

[Jwin]

Perhaps combining the two on day 3 or so, when there may still be a few gravity points left, would work and lessen o2 worries?
Another option would be to suspend all of your first dry hop in the small fermentation, then dump it directly into the larger. You just want to be sure you are through the growth cycle in the larger ferment, otherwise your just showing a huge starter in.
Maybe starting the smaller ferment a day later instead of a day earlier would be better to do that, giving the so4 a headstart...?
Edit(more thinking out loud):
You could potentially underpitch the s04 to coax a bigger ester profile, then add the smaller, very active, fermentation to help it finish.

 

[KLITE]

Now we have to figure out the best way to move the beer from each fermenter without having air in the line (I suppose purging the line with co2 when moving to the next carboy.) Any ideas?

I believe all you can do is close transfer and purge everything 3 times. After all theres only so much one can do to avoid oxygenation, i believe the cbc would consume any oxygen
that would be picked up by moving the liquids.

I remember reading early on in the thread that Trillium does not naturally carb their beers and i believe it can be noticed with long travel or just time. I had a melcher st and an upper case recently and they really werent anything spectacular in fact both leaning on the oxydated side... Melcher st was decent but just didnt have that humph i imagine it has that side of the ocean. Definitely not nearly as good as the Th stuff ive had.
So ye natural carb ftw!

How much do the cans of th go for over there? Whats it like at the brewery bar? When ive had th stuff out here ive seen ppl nearly cry and glasses being thrown to the floor in disbelief a beer can actually be all that. Do ppl lose it out there too?

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

Perhaps combining the two on day 3 or so, when there may still be a few gravity points left, would work and lessen o2 worries?
Another option would be to suspend all of your first dry hop in the small fermentation, then dump it directly into the larger. You just want to be sure you are through the growth cycle in the larger ferment, otherwise your just showing a huge starter in.
Maybe starting the smaller ferment a day later instead of a day earlier would be better to do that, giving the so4 a headstart...?
Edit(more thinking out loud):
You could potentially underpitch the s04 to coax a bigger ester profile, then add the smaller, very active, fermentation to help it finish.

Endless room for experimentation huh? My goal with this one is to start the WB-06 warm and keep it warm to favor esters over phenols. I'm just super skittish about blending the batches before either one is fermented out, just to keep the WB-06 activity at cool temps to a minimum. Although that would be good for oxygen scavenging.

I think my first line of defense against oxidation for this one is going to be carbing up naturally. Purge everything and purge the headspace of the filled keg, and let the CBC-1 do its thing with whatever O2 is dissolved.

The difference in attenuation between the strains has occurred to me. When I blend the batches, there are going to be sugars left in the S-04/T-58 batch that the WB-06 can consume. In an ideal world the WB-06 wouldn't ferment anything after it's done fermenting the small batch, just to keep the clove to a minimum. Not really sure what to do about that. I guess just adjust primer, pitch fresh CBC-1 (maybe extra) and hope for the best. We'll see what happens, I will report back.

 

[couchsending]

My biggest issue with doing the split batches is the greater potential for O2 ingress on a small scale. Any O2 uptake absolutely crushes these beers. I guess you could transfer with a little activity left but still... I bought a few 1 gallon jugs with the goal of splitting off a little wort and do separate fermentation’s but especially with the 1 gallon jugs there is zero way to keep the O2 out when transferring. If anyone has any vessels that can ferment small quantities of wort and performed closed Co2 transfers I’m all ears.

 

[Jwin]

The small Speidels can, but that's a lot of coin.

 

[couchsending]

The smallest is 3.2 gallons.. If splitting off a small percentage of 6 gallons I wouldn’t want that much headspace.

 

[SanPancho]

My biggest issue with doing the split batches is the greater potential for O2 ingress on a small scale. Any O2 uptake absolutely crushes these beers. I guess you could transfer with a little activity left but still... I bought a few 1 gallon jugs with the goal of splitting off a little wort and do separate fermentation’s but especially with the 1 gallon jugs there is zero way to keep the O2 out when transferring. If anyone has any vessels that can ferment small quantities of wort and performed closed Co2 transfers I’m all ears.

Small torpedo cornys from morebeer. 1.5 and 2.5 sizes. Adventures in homebrewing also has deals on used w2.5s and 3s often.

 

[NJGeorge]

Endless room for experimentation huh? My goal with this one is to start the WB-06 warm and keep it warm to favor esters over phenols. I'm just super skittish about blending the batches before either one is fermented out, just to keep the WB-06 activity at cool temps to a minimum. Although that would be good for oxygen scavenging.

I think my first line of defense against oxidation for this one is going to be carbing up naturally. Purge everything and purge the headspace of the filled keg, and let the CBC-1 do its thing with whatever O2 is dissolved.

The difference in attenuation between the strains has occurred to me. When I blend the batches, there are going to be sugars left in the S-04/T-58 batch that the WB-06 can consume. In an ideal world the WB-06 wouldn't ferment anything after it's done fermenting the small batch, just to keep the clove to a minimum. Not really sure what to do about that. I guess just adjust primer, pitch fresh CBC-1 (maybe extra) and hope for the best. We'll see what happens, I will report back.

What temp and for how long are you going to natural carb at? Even with CBC, isn’t the wb-06 and or the t-58 going to continue doing work? One thing I noticed with my last batch was that it tasted awesome right out of the fermenter at day 7. No Belgian or wit off flavors. Then after letting it carb naturally with CBC for another week and tasting the beer, boom had those flavors present.

Im still not convinced TH is letting their core ipas naturally ferment for a week after one week of primary fermentation (Could be wrong). They might be doing one week of primary with spunding/natural carb at the tail end, then let the beer condition cold for two weeks before package. Doesn’t Aslin do this? Maybe at day three into primary they transfer, dry hop and maybe add sugar CBC letting it carb in brite tank. Thinking out loud of course and also not factoring in the blended fermentation’s. Thoughts?

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

My biggest issue with doing the split batches is the greater potential for O2 ingress on a small scale. Any O2 uptake absolutely crushes these beers. I guess you could transfer with a little activity left but still... I bought a few 1 gallon jugs with the goal of splitting off a little wort and do separate fermentation’s but especially with the 1 gallon jugs there is zero way to keep the O2 out when transferring. If anyone has any vessels that can ferment small quantities of wort and performed closed Co2 transfers I’m all ears.

I feel like this is a bigger issue when force carbing. I agree that it's hard to eliminate O2 ingress altogether transferring from something with as small of a mouth as a 1 gal jug, but in theory active yeast should consume that O2 very quickly in the presence of fermentables, i.e. priming sugar.

Just to stack the odds though, there may be something I can rig up to do a closed CO2 transfer, the same way I do out of a 6.5 gal carboy with an orange carboy cap. Good idea for sure.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

What temp and for how long are you going to natural carb at? Even with CBC, isn’t the wb-06 and or the t-58 going to continue doing work? One thing I noticed with my last batch was that it tasted awesome right out of the fermenter at day 7. No Belgian or wit off flavors. Then after letting it carb naturally with CBC for another week and tasting the beer, boom had those flavors present.

Im still not convinced TH is letting their core ipas naturally ferment for a week after one week of primary fermentation (Could be wrong). They might be doing one week of primary with spunding/natural carb at the tail end, then let the beer condition cold for two weeks before package. Doesn’t Aslin do this? Maybe at day three into primary they transfer, dry hop and maybe add sugar CBC letting it carb in brite tank. Thinking out loud of course and also not factoring in the blended fermentation’s. Thoughts?

So in my first attempt i did 12 days on the CBC-1 in the keg at 68F, with keg hops, bagged before chilling to serving temp. That's a long time, but i was still pleased with the aroma/saturation on that batch. Just the phenols sucked, very clove-y, not that subtle almost-pepper TH thing. Actually the only reason I went that long was that I used too much primer and pegged my gauge. I used gyle to prime, which IME has more off flavors if you tap even a couple days early, so I erred on the side of caution and gave it plenty of time. Next time I'm planning to use about half as much primer and give it probably 2 extra days at 68F after the pressure stabilizes. My hunch is that will be less than 12 days.

Interesting that you had the clove phenols get worse over carbing up. I had the opposite experience, the highest clove I had was at packaging and it steadily reduced until it was -almost- gone. Wonder what the difference is that caused those opposite trends.

As far as adding CBC-1 in the primary and spunding - I don't know man. Seems like if you add CBC-1 a couple days into primary, you're adding a little bit of yeast compared to the giant population that's built up to ferment the bulk of the wort. Where cold crashing, transferring off the yeast, adding fermentables and maybe hops with CBC-1 would give the CBC-1 a fighting chance. I'm also just thinking out loud though.

 

[NJGeorge]

So in my first attempt i did 12 days on the CBC-1 in the keg at 68F, with keg hops, bagged before chilling to serving temp. That's a long time, but i was still pleased with the aroma/saturation on that batch. Just the phenols sucked, very clove-y, not that subtle almost-pepper TH thing. Actually the only reason I went that long was that I used too much primer and pegged my gauge. I used gyle to prime, which IME has more off flavors if you tap even a couple days early, so I erred on the side of caution and gave it plenty of time. Next time I'm planning to use about half as much primer and give it probably 2 extra days at 68F after the pressure stabilizes. My hunch is that will be less than 12 days.

Interesting that you had the clove phenols get worse over carbing up. I had the opposite experience, the highest clove I had was at packaging and it steadily reduced until it was -almost- gone. Wonder what the difference is that caused those opposite trends.

As far as adding CBC-1 in the primary and spunding - I don't know man. Seems like if you add CBC-1 a couple days into primary, you're adding a little bit of yeast compared to the giant population that's built up to ferment the bulk of the wort. Where cold crashing, transferring off the yeast, adding fermentables and maybe hops with CBC-1 would give the CBC-1 a fighting chance. I'm also just thinking out loud though.

I also forgot to mention I added two grams of CBC with my second dry hop around day three or four. Not sure if that had anything to do with it but I tell you I had no off flavors at kegging. But you’re right, crashing and transferring off of yeast would be ideal. On my homebrew scale, I can’t do it.

 

[melville]

I don't see how blending (separately fermented strains) makes sense on their scale. Some of their recent allotments (2000+ cases) seem to imply just simple batching into their (many) 240's. Also the percentages are so small on some aspects of the blend — the mix and match of different size FVs and then blending them seems like it would be a massive PITA for production.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

I don't see how blending (separately fermented strains) makes sense on their scale. Some of their recent allotments (2000+ cases) seem to imply just simple batching into their (many) 240's. Also the percentages are so small on some aspects of the blend — the mix and match of different size FVs and then blending them seems like it would be a massive PITA for production.

I could be wrong, but wasn't there some discussion a few hundred (1000+?) posts ago about the smaller FVs that they have and what they are for? Just speculation of course, but it could be smaller batches they blend in. Assuming they brew the same overall batch size, they may be set up to do just that. They could be blending from one smaller ferment into many receiving vessels, which could be automated. It was a custom built brewery after all.

Fwiw, both my separate ferment batches are going now. When I smell the airlock on my large S-04/T-58 batch, I think, huh, ale fermentation. When I smell the one on the small WB-06 batch, between the flameout Citra and the intense bubblegum/banana, it takes me back to opening a fresh can of Doppelganger a couple of weeks ago. The blended beer will turn out to be about 20% WB-06 fermented and 80% S-04/T-58.

I mean, this is just an experiment so far, but man, smelling the airlocks, it's promising.

I have a plan in the works to closed CO2 transfer from a 1 gal jug. Will be reporting back...

 

[melville]

I could be wrong, but wasn't there some discussion a few hundred (1000+?) posts ago about the smaller FVs that they have and what they are for? Just speculation of course, but it could be smaller batches they blend in. Assuming they brew the same overall batch size, they may be set up to do just that. They could be blending from one smaller ferment into many receiving vessels, which could be automated. It was a custom built brewery after all.

Fwiw, both my separate ferment batches are going now. When I smell the airlock on my large S-04/T-58 batch, I think, huh, ale fermentation. When I smell the one on the small WB-06 batch, between the flameout Citra and the intense bubblegum/banana, it takes me back to opening a fresh can of Doppelganger a couple of weeks ago. The blended beer will turn out to be about 20% WB-06 fermented and 80% S-04/T-58.

I mean, this is just an experiment so far, but man, smelling the airlocks, it's promising.

I have a plan in the works to closed CO2 transfer from a 1 gal jug. Will be reporting back...

I do look forward to your findings, I just think for a brewery to tie up 3 FVs for every IPA, when it could be one... I'm skeptical. Just the additional cleaning time alone seems prohibitive, vs a defined ratio of dry yeast in one giant FV.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

I do look forward to your findings, I just think for a brewery to tie up 3 FVs for every IPA, when it could be one... I'm skeptical. Just the additional cleaning time alone seems prohibitive, vs a defined ratio of dry yeast in one giant FV.

Sounds good, yeah, I'll report back at several stages.

Added the first dry hop this morning. About 39 hours in. I was going to throw them in last night but i felt like it wasn't ready. I think it was the right decision because it's more active now than last night (pitched cold at 59F, but rehydrated).

So here's an interesting thing. I stirred in the dry hops with a heat-sterilized stainless spoon. When I pulled the spoon out and reattached the airlock, the spoon dripped on my finger. What to do but taste?! I tasted it, and was immediately reminded of that background spice I've tasted in Sap, Green and Doppelganger. Now the question is, will that character survive through conditioning? Who knows. This was the large batch, 85% S-04 and 15% T-58.

 

[melville]

Now that my last @15% T-58 batch is carbed up, I do get a very subtle pepper in the finish. I don't get bubblegum, but I don't really get bubblegum from TH. I used C-40 for this batch and the sweetness is close. I'm not sure I prefer it to C-20 for my personal taste but the appearance is great, has the orangey glow and overall bright haze (vs murk) that Sap has.

 

[TheHairyHop]

I don't see how blending (separately fermented strains) makes sense on their scale. Some of their recent allotments (2000+ cases) seem to imply just simple batching into their (many) 240's. Also the percentages are so small on some aspects of the blend — the mix and match of different size FVs and then blending them seems like it would be a massive PITA for production.

It's confirmed that the Alchemist blends HT, so I don't see scale as being an argument against blending. Not saying that it confirms that TH does, just that the point doesn't hold much water.

As far as transferring without O2, my biggest recommendation is to ferment in kegs. If you can't do that, either transfer with gravity left or onto sugar (if you didn't carb in the fermenter, this is a great time to add the right amount of priming sugar to the serving vessel). If you're worried about O2 in the lines, instead of an airlock or blowoff tube, have the gas out of your fermenter go through whatever lines and vessels you want. The continuous purging from fermentation will be more efficient at reducing O2 than filling with CO2, out gassing, and repeating. For those super into reducing O2, it should be noted that bottled CO2 is typically impure.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

but I don't really get bubblegum from TH.

I guess I sort of perceive it more as some blend of bubblegum/banana. Really the only beer I noticed it in unprompted was Haze. With the Doppelganger I bought over the holidays, I didn't notice it right away. But when I took a hydrometer reading on it, after it was degassed and brought to measurement temp, I took the reading then cooled it back down to serving temp, then drank it. It was SUPER banana-bubblegum-y. From then on i was able to taste it in carbonated and serving temp Doppelganger as well.

I haven't noticed that character in their "standard" gravity IPAs, although my guess is it's there, but so subtle I probably just missed it, like i would have in the Doppelganger if I hadn't taken the gravity reading.

 

[TheHairyHop]

it's possible that it's flavors from hops as well. I get lots of bubblegum from Lone Pine's Tess, and I'm not entirely convinced that they are doing anything fancy with the yeast. The last batch of Tess dropped almost crystal clear, and it still had the bubblegum nose and taste

 

[melville]

It's confirmed that the Alchemist blends HT, so I don't see scale as being an argument against blending. Not saying that it confirms that TH does, just that the point doesn't hold much water.

But aren't they just brewing 1 beer at Waterbury — Heady Topper (and essentially 2 at Stowe)? So basically at capacity, filling every FV, and blending multiples in a bright before canning for a homogenous final product? That to me is quite a bit different than blending different strains at different volumes for many multiples of beers.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

it's possible that it's flavors from hops as well.

Yeah, I guess that's true. The reason I was thinking it was more an artifact of the yeast is that when I took that gravity reading, the sample went through several cycles of warming to room temp and cooling as it came to temp, in an open hydrometer flask. I would have thought the hop aromas would have been much more volatile and offgassed by the time I drank the sample, so I kind of associated it with the yeast in my mind.

The other thing though is that my 100% WB-06 batch smells like that Doppelganger/Haze banana/bubblegum character out the airlock.

 

[thunderaxe]

I just think for a brewery to tie up 3 FVs for every IPA...

they wouldn't have to do this though. all they need to do is have one (possibly small) FV dedicated to creating a WB-06 batch under whatever conditions best express the desired WB-06 characteristics; and then blend that in to EACH of their IPAs in whatever amount best suits each particular beer.

they could be doing the same thing with the T-58, too. hence the two smaller FVs.
neither of these dedicated ester batches need to be hopped in any particular manner, leaving the primary FVs for each batch to be hopped to the character of that particular beer, and the ester batches to be blended in to taste.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

they wouldn't have to do this though. all they need to do is have one (possibly small) FV dedicated to creating a WB-06 batch under whatever conditions best express the desired WB-06 characteristics; and then blend that in to EACH of their IPAs in whatever amount best suits each particular beer.

they could be doing the same thing with the T-58, too. hence the two smaller FVs.
neither of these dedicated ester batches need to be hopped in any particular manner, leaving the primary FVs for each batch to be hopped to the character of that particular beer, and the ester batches to be blended in to taste.

+1

This is kind of what my speculation had me thinking as well. Or maybe they are co-pitching the S-04 and T-58 and the smaller FVs are for WB-06 only. They could use one or both, depending on how many core IPAs they are brewing at one time.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

Now that my last @15% T-58 batch is carbed up, I do get a very subtle pepper in the finish. I don't get bubblegum, but I don't really get bubblegum from TH. I used C-40 for this batch and the sweetness is close. I'm not sure I prefer it to C-20 for my personal taste but the appearance is great, has the orangey glow and overall bright haze (vs murk) that Sap has.

Are you getting a bunch of orange character with the T-58 at 15%? I was expecting it from my large batch from that little taste I had today from when I dry hopped but didn't get any. My last two attempts (both co-pitches with all three strains) had a bunch of that character with the T-58 at 6% ish. I also pitched more yeast in this latest one and pitched cooler, so that could be why too.

 

[TheHairyHop]

they wouldn't have to do this though. all they need to do is have one (possibly small) FV dedicated to creating a WB-06 batch under whatever conditions best express the desired WB-06 characteristics; and then blend that in to EACH of their IPAs in whatever amount best suits each particular beer.

they could be doing the same thing with the T-58, too. hence the two smaller FVs.
neither of these dedicated ester batches need to be hopped in any particular manner, leaving the primary FVs for each batch to be hopped to the character of that particular beer, and the ester batches to be blended in to taste.

I really don't know if this has been mentioned (I assume it has), but they definitely do have a row of small fermenters next to a row of much larger vessels

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

No tours at tree house. It's show up, get in line, buy your beer, and get out. However the brewery is within full view while inside. You'd have to know what you're looking for. View is generally this. Far right are the kettles cropped out, and far left is generally obstructed by the canning line.

New brewery opening soon too.

@TheHairyHop, funny you should mention that, I was just going through some of the early posts to find the pic. Looks like post 144?

 

[NJGeorge]

I really don't know if this has been mentioned (I assume it has), but they definitely do have a row of small fermenters next to a row of much larger vessels

The new brewery or the old one? Or both?

 

[TheHairyHop]

I may have pictures of the old one, but I'm going off of the new one. I can't upload my pictures because hombrewtalk contracts the forum out to cavemen who don't know how to automatically resize picture files.

 

[NJGeorge]

I may have pictures of the old one, but I'm going off of the new one. I can't upload my pictures because hombrewtalk contracts the forum out to cavemen who don't know how to automatically resize picture files.

So speaking out loud here to all. If those small tanks are not used for wb-06 for blending, then what else would they be used for? Pilot batches? Also check out my attached picture. What are those tanks by the canning line?

 

[TheHairyHop]

My guess would be pilot batches. They always have two or so beers available for draft that are new or rare. I have no clue what those vessels by the canning line could be. Maybe speisse?
There's just a lot of guessing to be had. I'll take the space to make a point that it was never tested that an S04 culture can't plate out other fermentis strains. Every lab deals with infections. See White Labs and the recent diasticus fiasco

 

[TheHairyHop]

This thread made it to the big time
https://www.themadfermentationist.com/2018/01/american-oat-ale-brew-day-dry-hop.html?m=1

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

Raised the temp of the large S-04/T-58 (85/15%) batch to 67F yesterday morning and added the second dry hop last night at about 72 hours post pitch. Also started the cold crash on the small 100% WB-06 batch yesterday morning, even though I'm not kegging until this weekend. I want to drop out as much of the powdery WB-06 as possible. The small batch received no dry hops.

 

[NJGeorge]

Raised the temp of the large S-04/T-58 (85/15%) batch to 67F yesterday morning and added the second dry hop last night at about 72 hours post pitch. Also started the cold crash on the small 100% WB-06 batch yesterday morning, even though I'm not kegging until this weekend. I want to drop out as much of the powdery WB-06 as possible. The small batch received no dry hops.

Will you be naturally carbing this batch? I was thinking of brewing with the trio this week, but might wait to see how yours comes out with the blending experiment hehe Also, do you guys think TH only cold conditions for around a week? I’m still skeptical about that.

 

[Oldsock]

Posted a write-up of my second try with this blend (11:1:1), fermented at 60F ambient. It was sort of an low-bitterness APA/session with Citra and Amarillo. I preferred the cooler fermentation and more restrained esters compared to my first batch. Also split this batch with dry hops on brew day and day four to see how that changed the impression. No big surprise, but the later dry hops had a more evidently "hoppy" result.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

Posted a write-up of my second try with this blend (11:1:1), fermented at 60F ambient. It was sort of an low-bitterness APA/session with Citra and Amarillo. I preferred the cooler fermentation and more restrained esters compared to my first batch. Also split this batch with dry hops on brew day and day four to see how that changed the impression. No big surprise, but the later dry hops had a more evidently "hoppy" result.

Thanks for posting the link! Btw, I love your writeups/articles and have learned a lot from them.

What kind of esters are you getting from this batch? More citrus or more bubblegum/banana? I suppose some of that character might be difficult to peg as hops or yeast.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

Will you be naturally carbing this batch? I was thinking of brewing with the trio this week, but might wait to see how yours comes out with the blending experiment hehe Also, do you guys think TH only cold conditions for around a week? I’m still skeptical about that.

Yeah, I'm planning to naturally carb with the third dry hop in the keg. I want to do as much as I can to prevent O2 ingress, so naturally carbing should do a lot for me there. Planning to keg on Sunday.

 

[Oldsock]

Thanks for posting the link! Btw, I love your writeups/articles and have learned a lot from them.

What kind of esters are you getting from this batch? More citrus or more bubblegum/banana? I suppose some of that character might be difficult to peg as hops or yeast.

I get more banana, but it is pretty mild. With the Citra and Amarillo it is certainly citrusy, but nothing out of place for the hops. Even the first batch (which I found more expressive from a warmer ferment) I was surprised how few people mentioned the yeast character without me prodding.

 

[mikeroesoft]

Couple of notes/thoughts I have since catching up on this thread today...

1 - Smaller fermenter looking things could be yeast propagators?

2- Does anyone have any Weyermann white wheat? I find that whenever I taste the kernels, I get a "Treehouse" type flavor from them. I get a similar flavor from Wyeast 1968 yeast which is supposed to be very similar to S-04.

3 - I am wondering if Threehouse has a wheat beer (or a separate beer for that matter) they brew with wit yeast and blends a certain percentage back in at some point prior to packaging.

I seriously cannot imagine they're co-pitching all the different yeasts at the same time and hoping for a desired result. My suspicion is that they are brewing a base beer with S-04 and then something else, with wheat and WB-06 to produce that banana/bubblegum thing, blending (I have no idea at what ratio) the two beers and using T-58 to increase attenuation/dry it out a little and then CBC-1 to condition. Doing this would kill the other strains, lock in the flavor profile and prevent them from producing additional unwanted flavours in the can...."shelf stability" for lack of a better term.

 

[TheHairyHop]

Couple of notes/thoughts I have since catching up on this thread today...

1 - Smaller fermenter looking things could be yeast propagators?

2- Does anyone have any Weyermann white wheat? I find that whenever I taste the kernels, I get a "Treehouse" type flavor from them. I get a similar flavor from Wyeast 1968 yeast which is supposed to be very similar to S-04.

3 - I am wondering if Threehouse has a wheat beer (or a separate beer for that matter) they brew with wit yeast and blends a certain percentage back in at some point prior to packaging.

I seriously cannot imagine they're co-pitching all the different yeasts at the same time and hoping for a desired result. My suspicion is that they are brewing a base beer with S-04 and then something else, with wheat and WB-06 to produce that banana/bubblegum thing, blending (I have no idea at what ratio) the two beers and using T-58 to increase attenuation/dry it out a little and then CBC-1 to condition. Doing this would kill the other strains, lock in the flavor profile and prevent them from producing additional unwanted flavours in the can...."shelf stability" for lack of a better term.

T-58 isn't the most attenuative of the 3

 

[KnowYourDemons]

Funny enough, I was just reading the Yeast book by Chris White last night through the section on using multiple strains for added complexity. While purely anecdotal, his recommendation was to co-pitch all strains in the beginning claiming that most brewer's yeast propagates at similar rates and most flavor development is in the first 72 hours. I know this in no way rules out the blending people keep bringing up (and the evidence that the Alchemist does it), just found it interesting. I've been trying the copitched blend at 66 deg F myself without any real success so far. My last batch was meh, and didn't attenuate enough with the blend. Is anybody elevating the temp after the first few days to try and bump up attenuating? What kind of attenuation are y'all getting from these blends?