Isolated Yeast (Tree House): How to Identify and Characterize?

[ThePaleAleIndian]

I found this source:

https://www.swansonvitamins.com/now-foods-potassium-chloride-powder-8-oz-pwdr

The anti-caking agent is magnesium carbonate, which due to the carbonate component may raise mash pH a wee smidge if the concentration of it in the KCl is appreciable enough. Magnesium carbonate is more soluble than calcium carbonate.

Yeah, I was worried about this too. This particular KCl is 99.4% KCl and 0.6% MgCO3. That much MgCO3 won't be enough to do anything to the mash pH in the amounts of total KCl we're adding.

Apparently I overpaid on Amazon though haha.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

Ok so for the math dummies like myself, if I use 1/8 teaspoon of kosher salt in my mash and in my sparge how much KCl would I use in it's place?

So in theory if you do it by weight, NaCl is about 8% more dense than KCl and has about 60% chloride instead of 48% chloride like KCl. That means to get the same chloride from KCl as NaCl, you would use about a time and a quarter as much KCl as NaCl.

Doing it by volume is in theory trickier because you would have to take into account the granularity of the salts. If the granularity is different, that 8% density difference could go out the window.

However, RDWAHAHB - I would personally just try it one-to-one. I don't think a quarter of 1/8 tsp is enough to alter perception in the finished beer. The above is more if you're adding a lot, but even then I question whether that time and a quarter vs. one to one would be perceptible. IMHO probably not.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Yeah, I was worried about this too. This particular KCl is 99.4% KCl and 0.6% MgCO3. That much MgCO3 won't be enough to do anything to the mash pH in the amounts of total KCl we're adding.

Apparently I overpaid on Amazon though haha.

Yes, at 99.4% KCl the tiny residual of MgCO3 is a non issue. There is likely as much Ca(OH)2 contamination in essentially all lots of brewing grade CaCL2 prills, and no one worries (or ever thinks, or even knows) about that. And Ca(OH)2 is leagues more caustic than MgCO3.

Where did you go to discover the percentages of the ingredients?

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

Yes, at 99.4% KCl the tiny residual of MgCO3 is a non issue. There is likely as much Ca(OH)2 contamination in essentially all lots of brewing grade CaCL2 prills, and no one worries (or ever thinks, or even knows) about that. And Ca(OH)2 is leagues more caustic than MgCO3.

Where did you go to discover the percentages of the ingredients?

It's on the label but in a really roundabout way. I had to do some math. It says on the label that in 0.7 g (700 mg) of this KCl, there is 365 mg of K. Knowing that K is 39.0983 g/mol and Cl is 35.453 g/mol, we know that KCl is 52.44% K. So if 365 mg is 52.44% of x, then x is 696 mg, which is 99.4% of the 700 mg.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

It's on the label but in a really roundabout way. I had to do some math. It says on the label that in 0.7 g (700 mg) of this KCl, there is 365 mg of K. Knowing that K is 39.0983 g/mol and Cl is 35.453 g/mol, we know that KCl is 52.44% K. So if 365 mg is 52.44% of x, then x is 696 mg, which is 99.4% of the 700 mg.

I like it!!! Thanks!!! I'll probably order some of this. Never know when it might come in handy.

 

[kenkkkkk]

Hi everyone,

Been a lurker in this thread for a long time, and figured it might be time to chip in. And thanks a ton to all of you, who have made this an awesome and learning read thus far.

Anyways...

Has Nate in any way responded to this thread? I'm guessing someone must have tipped him about the thread/let him know about it's existence and findings.

And with him being an quite active Twitter user - has anyone directly asked him, if these strains are really the ones that he contiually blends and uses in his hoppy beers? Or maybe just asked him, if he blends a variety of commerically available yeasts? With him being as vague, as he often is on Twitter, he'd probably more likely confirm the latter question, than the first question.

In terms of salts, and how Hill Farmstead has a rather unusually high amount of Sodium in their beers, it makes perfect sense to me. Sodium decreases the perception of bitterness, which (theoretically) will let you use a higher amount of hops all through the brewing process, without having a perception of high bitterness, when you drink it. And there by, you could (theoretically) achieve a beer that would taste a lot of hops, but don't come off as aggressively bitter.

Try for instance to add just a tiny pinch of salt to your coffee, and it'll change the perception of bitterness drastically.

 

[kenkkkkk]

Really bugs me that I've never thought of a high Sodium rate myself, when doing hoppy beer... been too focused on Chloride to Sulfate ratio. And have, to my palate, found that about 200:100 ppm works very well for me in this style in terms of Chloride and Sulfate.

 

[The_Dirty_Spring]

Just wanted to provide update on my latest batch. I think I’ve settled into the sweet spot on ratios, at least for my palate. I pulled a sample last night after 10 days in keg conditioning (CBC) and one day in fridge. Very very reminiscent of the TH balance, soft round mouthfeel, and most importantly that sweet estery bubblegum thing without the phenols or Belgian character. Final dry hop charge tonight and hopefully pouring in 2-3 days. Ratio is 91% S04 / 4.5% WB06 / 4.5% T58 (10g/0.5g/0.5g in 5 gal). Will post a pic when we’re pouring. Cheers!

 

[TheHairyHop]

I've been meaning to do a salt experiment for a while. An older friend salts his stouts at the table.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

Just wanted to provide update on my latest batch. I think I’ve settled into the sweet spot on ratios, at least for my palate. I pulled a sample last night after 10 days in keg conditioning (CBC) and one day in fridge. Very very reminiscent of the TH balance, soft round mouthfeel, and most importantly that sweet estery bubblegum thing without the phenols or Belgian character. Final dry hop charge tonight and hopefully pouring in 2-3 days. Ratio is 91% S04 / 4.5% WB06 / 4.5% T58 (10g/0.5g/0.5g in 5 gal). Will post a pic when we’re pouring. Cheers!

Awesome! Looking forward to hearing more about it! What temp did you pitch and ferment at?

 

[The_Dirty_Spring]

Pitched at 73F (laziness) and controlled down to 65F within a few hours. Fermented at 65F for three days, bumped up slowly to 70. Went into keg with CBC-1 around day 7, held around 65F ambient ten days. Final dry hop post-carbonation. Very promising results, but I think the hef yeast is still over-attenuating. I may pitch the CBC-1 earlier next time, maybe 10 points north of desired FG, in hopes it kills off the others to prevent that.

 

[TheHairyHop]

I had a pretty old Lone Pine IPA the other day and I noticed a lot of sweet bubblegum ester that I attribute to yeast vs hops. They're one of the few breweries that I think holds a candle to TH's IPAs, so it's certainly possible that they've started aping the same yeast approach. I never see the brewers around when I visit, so I haven't been able to ask in person

 

[TheHairyHop]

a more repeatable variable could be upping the mash temp

 

[isomerization]

Hi everyone,

Been a lurker in this thread for a long time, and figured it might be time to chip in. And thanks a ton to all of you, who have made this an awesome and learning read thus far.

Anyways...

Has Nate in any way responded to this thread? I'm guessing someone must have tipped him about the thread/let him know about it's existence and findings.

And with him being an quite active Twitter user - has anyone directly asked him, if these strains are really the ones that he contiually blends and uses in his hoppy beers? Or maybe just asked him, if he blends a variety of commerically available yeasts? With him being as vague, as he often is on Twitter, he'd probably more likely confirm the latter question, than the first question.

In terms of salts, and how Hill Farmstead has a rather unusually high amount of Sodium in their beers, it makes perfect sense to me. Sodium decreases the perception of bitterness, which (theoretically) will let you use a higher amount of hops all through the brewing process, without having a perception of high bitterness, when you drink it. And there by, you could (theoretically) achieve a beer that would taste a lot of hops, but don't come off as aggressively bitter.

Try for instance to add just a tiny pinch of salt to your coffee, and it'll change the perception of bitterness drastically.

I don't use Twitter, but feel free to throw something out there to him!

 

[isomerization]

Pitched at 73F (laziness) and controlled down to 65F within a few hours. Fermented at 65F for three days, bumped up slowly to 70. Went into keg with CBC-1 around day 7, held around 65F ambient ten days. Final dry hop post-carbonation. Very promising results, but I think the hef yeast is still over-attenuating. I may pitch the CBC-1 earlier next time, maybe 10 points north of desired FG, in hopes it kills off the others to prevent that.

What were your other parameters (OG, FG, mash temp, water profile, etc)? Glad to hear this worked out for you!

 

[thunderaxe]

i've read this entire thread from front to back, and with the major caveats that 1) i've never had a tree house beer, and 2) i am absolutely a novice brewer; i still feel like if i were trying to keep all the variables under control as much as possible and derive the maximum intended character from each yeast, i would do the following:
- brew small, individual batches of WB-06 and T-58 beers at their ideal temperatures and pitching rates for optimal ester production. these would have minimal hop character on their own, probably just enough for the natural antimicrobial properties of hops and/or bittering. essentially creating "ester juice".
- meanwhile, brew large batches of each individual beer with its own unique malt and hop bills (e.g. julius with citra + whatever else, green with galaxy + whatever else) using only S-04.
- after primary fermentation is complete, blend in the appropriate amount of each completed WB-06 and/or T-58 "ester juice" to taste, and then condition with the conditioning yeast.

 

[quijiba]

This is actually not a bad idea at all and would almost certainly give you more control over flavor profile in the fermentation and then also the blend. It would effectively be like blending sour beer, but for an IPA. You might be on to something to experiment with, thunderaxe

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

I think this would be a good idea too. In fact, I don't think it can be definitively ruled out that TH isn't doing exactly that - blending finished beers. Actually, given the nature of the yeast strains, it would be a pretty powerful thing to be able to control their ferment temp profiles independently of each other. We can always speculate about what would be easier for them and what Nate is more likely to have done as a homebrewer back in the day, but the fact is that we only know bits and pieces of their process and we don't know which fits better into it, blending yeasts or blending beers. I will add that any time I have seen questions (including ones I emailed in) about blending yeasts answered by the yeast suppliers, they always recommend blending finished beers instead of yeasts.

With that said, even if they are doing one vs the other, IMO there is probably a way to approximate a yeast blend with a beer blend and vice versa, unless they really are doing some massive range of independent ferment temp control with separate fermenters, then it would be harder.

I don't know. Just thinking out loud. I still plan on blending yeasts for the next couple of attempts but I think I will try blending beers some time down the line.

 

[TheHairyHop]

Unless one of the blends is actively fermenting, I could see this inviting oxidation

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Blending beers is great for the initial dialling in of blending ratios, and as has been mentioned it allows for independent control of fermentation should you want it - but the big disadvantage for homebrewers is that it represents extra processing and so extra oxygen. The traditional reason for brewers using multistrains was to take advantage of good flocculation and good attenuation from a blend when any one yeast generally does one or the other. Whether you want that for your beer in this case is another matter, but it does mean that a blend of beers will behave slightly differently to a blend of yeasts.

One obvious potential hazard is blending beers with different FGs, if you mix beer with live Belgian yeasts with a FG 1016 beer, then you're giving your Belgian yeast a whole load of extra food to feed on....

 

[quijiba]

My inclination is that if they do in fact blend beers that they do it in an oxygen purged environment obviously (purged tanks and lines, of course).

If I were to guess, they would fully ferment WB06, T58, then add to a larger batch of S04 at the tail end of its fermentation with CBC1, some extra dextrose and probably the dry hop charge, or some variation of that.

It actually makes a lot more sense to me to blend these beers independently now that its been mentioned, particularly since it allows for significantly more control, which we know Nate loves.

 

[thunderaxe]

One obvious potential hazard is blending beers with different FGs, if you mix beer with live Belgian yeasts with a FG 1016 beer, then you're giving your Belgian yeast a whole load of extra food to feed on....

This is where CBC-1's killer properties could become beneficial, to prevent refermentation of higher-FG beers by the higher-attenuating yeasts. It might even be added to the individual beers in order to deactivate the yeasts prior to blending.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

Yeah, I think that would be a good way to minimize the oxidation risk. And they could account for the much higher attenuation of WB06 when they add fermentables.

This is something we could do on the homebrew scale as well. Blend the beers at packaging time and naturally condition with CBC-1 as I know a bunch of people are already trying (including yours truly). That would suck up dissolved O2.

Again, all speculation right? But I'm just saying I think there's some merit to both approaches.

 

[couchsending]

The only issue with everyone thinking that CBC-1 is killing everything is that I’m sure there are plenty of people whom have harvested yeast from a TH beer and brewed a beer of their own with it and said beer definitely had flavor impact from T-58 and or WB-06 which meant they were active during fermentation therefore not killed by any CBC-1. I know I speak from experience.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

The only issue with everyone thinking that CBC-1 is killing everything is that I’m sure there are plenty of people whom have harvested yeast from a TH beer and brewed a beer of their own with it and said beer definitely had flavor impact from T-58 and or WB-06 which meant they were active during fermentation therefore not killed by any CBC-1. I know I speak from experience.

Yeah, I agree. I don't think the CBC-1 is a realistic way to bring fermentation by the other strains to a dead stop. In my case when I mentioned CBC-1 in my last post, I was really just talking about O2 scavenging during natural carbonation. I think you'd still need to account for the higher attenuation of WB-06 if you're blending finished beers, with or without CBC-1.

 

[TheHairyHop]

A few saison strains are killer neutral. It could be that T58 can't be whacked by CBC but WB is

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I don't think we know the killer status of either T-58 or WB-06? So they could be resistant.

But more than that, killer factors aren't some machine gun that kills everything in sight, they're more like a man with a baseball bat. If there's enough vulnerable yeast they can gang up and resist him, or even individuals can protect themselves with beanbags or by knocking the bat out of his hands. Some authors have found that killer yeast need to be 50% of the population in order to take out sensitive yeast, but 5% seems to be more typical - still, pitching a few conditioning yeast into a completed fermentation isn't ideal.

Also - just as a reminder, TH is likely to be using Fermentis F-2 for conditioning rather than Lallemand CBC-1, the latter was only used at the start of this thread because F-2 is not available in retail in the US (but is available to commercial brewers there).

 

[melville]

Seems vastly more practical to pitch a defined ratio into one FV vs breaking batches into 3 FVs, when up until recently space has been a core concern. There's nothing about the amount of ester present in TH (not that much) that requires bumping everything to the max.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

Seems vastly more practical to pitch a defined ratio into one FV vs breaking batches into 3 FVs, when up until recently space has been a core concern. There's nothing about the amount of ester present in TH (not that much) that requires bumping everything to the max.

It's certainly easier for me to blend yeasts instead of beers on my system haha.

No, I think the reason this popped out at me as being possible is that I had such a bad experience with the phenols with my attempt. I've read some stuff that showed that higher temps with a Bavarian wheat yeast will tend to emphasize esters over phenols (I think I might have posted the links a couple dozen pages ago?). So it seems like fermenting the WB-06 high (72 ish?) and then blending a small quantity of that batch in could work to get the esters and keep the phenols down, and still be able to ferment the S-04 in the 60s. The overall ester character would be a function of the blend, so it could still be in line with the not-hugely-overt ester thing TH has going.

With that said, I know you and some others have had good experiences keeping phenols at bay by just manipulating the yeast ratios, so that's what I'm planning on doing next.

Brewday a week from today. Recipe is almost finalized, I'll keep you guys posted!

 

[melville]

Last batch came out pretty nice. Like I mentioned, less tart than previous efforts, a bit more sweet — though I did come to realize that in part this might be because I used a bit more crystal 20 than previous efforts (4% vs 2.5%) — though as I mentioned before, the attenuation was a bit lower on this one too (fermentation temp?). No weird phenols. Really soft and silky — I had moved half of my chloride to the boil for this one, and at least in my mind this was better. I think two weeks of conditioning is the sweet spot, hop flavors really all come together after some initial harshness in some taste tests at week one of conditioning.

Batch behind this (kegging tomorrow) took the crystal down a tad, still fermenting 62-ish, same percentages, but changed the water additions — using NaCl and some Epsom to reduce amts of CaCl and gypsum, while keeping sulfate/chloride ratio about the same.

 

[Livinon2]

I'll toss in my anecdotal experience. First time using the yeast blend and overall I'm really pleased with the result.

OG 1.064 FG 1.011 IBU 108

100% RO, 10 g KCl, 1 g Baking Soda, 1 g Citric Acid, Mash pH 5.7, BIAB full volume

85% Rahr 2-row
12.5% Carafoam
2.5% Caramunich II

30 min 1 oz Columbus, 0.5 Oz Citra
10 min 1.5 oz Columbus, 1.5 Oz Citra
5 min 1.5 oz Columbus, 1.5 Oz Citra

Day 4 dry hop 2 oz Citra, 1 oz Amarillo
Day 10 keg dry hop 2 oz Citra, 1 oz Amarillo

SO4 89%, T58 8%, WB06 3% pitched at 76 F and fermented at 64 F

Split the batch and did half with 100% SO4. Huge difference in mouthfeel and finish. The blend is bigger and softer. Not getting any phenols just resiny hops and juicy bubblegum. Id like to play with this blend some more but this is really close! A lot of unsuspecting friends and family tried the two batches and the blend was the unanimous favorite.

Tried side by side with Julius and its the closest I've ever been but still not there. Overall Julius was more drinkable and more full. They had similar threads of yeast esters but Julius was more malt whereas my attempt was loads of hops and the yeast. Finish was similar but mine was more bitter and lingered on the pallet longer (high mash pH?). Mouthfeel is where I really fell short as Julius was hazier and more full.

Changes for next time: 5.2-5.3 mash pH (worried about final pH), lower IBUs to ~90s, more sweetness (too dry compared to Julius), and need more haze (this batch looks like it'll clear after some time in the keg). I've had success creating a more solid haze with spelt or wheat but I'm worried the WB06 could kick off banana and clove in the presence of more ferulic acid. Cant find a solid source that this is a valid concern. I also think I'll switch to a lower SRM crystal malt C10/C20 or Aromatic and up to 4-5% of grist.

Cheers!

 

[melville]

I'll toss in my anecdotal experience. First time using the yeast blend and overall I'm really pleased with the result.

OG 1.064 FG 1.011 IBU 108

100% RO, 10 g KCl, 1 g Baking Soda, 1 g Citric Acid, Mash pH 5.7, BIAB full volume

85% Rahr 2-row
12.5% Carafoam
2.5% Caramunich II

30 min 1 oz Columbus, 0.5 Oz Citra
10 min 1.5 oz Columbus, 1.5 Oz Citra
5 min 1.5 oz Columbus, 1.5 Oz Citra

Day 4 dry hop 2 oz Citra, 1 oz Amarillo
Day 10 keg dry hop 2 oz Citra, 1 oz Amarillo

SO4 89%, T58 8%, WB06 3% pitched at 76 F and fermented at 64 F

Split the batch and did half with 100% SO4. Huge difference in mouthfeel and finish. The blend is bigger and softer. Not getting any phenols just resiny hops and juicy bubblegum. Id like to play with this blend some more but this is really close! A lot of unsuspecting friends and family tried the two batches and the blend was the unanimous favorite.

Tried side by side with Julius and its the closest I've ever been but still not there. Overall Julius was more drinkable and more full. They had similar threads of yeast esters but Julius was more malt whereas my attempt was loads of hops and the yeast. Finish was similar but mine was more bitter and lingered on the pallet longer (high mash pH?). Mouthfeel is where I really fell short as Julius was hazier and more full.

Changes for next time: 5.2-5.3 mash pH (worried about final pH), lower IBUs to ~90s, more sweetness (too dry compared to Julius), and need more haze (this batch looks like it'll clear after some time in the keg). I've had success creating a more solid haze with spelt or wheat but I'm worried the WB06 could kick off banana and clove in the presence of more ferulic acid. Cant find a solid source that this is a valid concern. I also think I'll switch to a lower SRM crystal malt C10/C20 or Aromatic and up to 4-5% of grist.

Cheers!

Very nice. What was your attenuation like?

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

Last batch came out pretty nice. Like I mentioned, less tart than previous efforts, a bit more sweet — though I did come to realize that in part this might be because I used a bit more crystal 20 than previous efforts (4% vs 2.5%) — though as I mentioned before, the attenuation was a bit lower on this one too (fermentation temp?). No weird phenols. Really soft and silky — I had moved half of my chloride to the boil for this one, and at least in my mind this was better. I think two weeks of conditioning is the sweet spot, hop flavors really all come together after some initial harshness in some taste tests at week one of conditioning.

Batch behind this (kegging tomorrow) took the crystal down a tad, still fermenting 62-ish, same percentages, but changed the water additions — using NaCl and some Epsom to reduce amts of CaCl and gypsum, while keeping sulfate/chloride ratio about the same.

That is beautiful! What was your dry hop schedule? Are you getting the TH bubblegum thing?

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

I'll toss in my anecdotal experience. First time using the yeast blend and overall I'm really pleased with the result.

OG 1.064 FG 1.011 IBU 108

100% RO, 10 g KCl, 1 g Baking Soda, 1 g Citric Acid, Mash pH 5.7, BIAB full volume

85% Rahr 2-row
12.5% Carafoam
2.5% Caramunich II

30 min 1 oz Columbus, 0.5 Oz Citra
10 min 1.5 oz Columbus, 1.5 Oz Citra
5 min 1.5 oz Columbus, 1.5 Oz Citra

Day 4 dry hop 2 oz Citra, 1 oz Amarillo
Day 10 keg dry hop 2 oz Citra, 1 oz Amarillo

SO4 89%, T58 8%, WB06 3% pitched at 76 F and fermented at 64 F

Split the batch and did half with 100% SO4. Huge difference in mouthfeel and finish. The blend is bigger and softer. Not getting any phenols just resiny hops and juicy bubblegum. Id like to play with this blend some more but this is really close! A lot of unsuspecting friends and family tried the two batches and the blend was the unanimous favorite.

Tried side by side with Julius and its the closest I've ever been but still not there. Overall Julius was more drinkable and more full. They had similar threads of yeast esters but Julius was more malt whereas my attempt was loads of hops and the yeast. Finish was similar but mine was more bitter and lingered on the pallet longer (high mash pH?). Mouthfeel is where I really fell short as Julius was hazier and more full.

Changes for next time: 5.2-5.3 mash pH (worried about final pH), lower IBUs to ~90s, more sweetness (too dry compared to Julius), and need more haze (this batch looks like it'll clear after some time in the keg). I've had success creating a more solid haze with spelt or wheat but I'm worried the WB06 could kick off banana and clove in the presence of more ferulic acid. Cant find a solid source that this is a valid concern. I also think I'll switch to a lower SRM crystal malt C10/C20 or Aromatic and up to 4-5% of grist.

Cheers!

Awesome! I am planning on using right around those same yeast percentages in my next attempt. Also planning on using KCl.

Do you have a feel for what the KCl did for you vs. using NaCl? Would you use KCl again?

The reason I ask is that I have been planning on using KCl because there is so much K already in beer. But then it occurred to me that the K occurring in beer from the malt might be bound to other compounds and therefore have a different flavor contribution than adding KCl, which I guess would be totally dissociated into K+ and Cl-. Trying to get a better feel for what I'm getting myself into haha.

 

[Livinon2]

Very nice. What was your attenuation like?

82% on both batches. Interestingly they finished at the same level. Mashed at 154.

 

[Livinon2]

Awesome! I am planning on using right around those same yeast percentages in my next attempt. Also planning on using KCl.

Do you have a feel for what the KCl did for you vs. using NaCl? Would you use KCl again?

The reason I ask is that I have been planning on using KCl because there is so much K already in beer. But then it occurred to me that the K occurring in beer from the malt might be bound to other compounds and therefore have a different flavor contribution than adding KCl, which I guess would be totally dissociated into K+ and Cl-. Trying to get a better feel for what I'm getting myself into haha.

This was my first time using KCl and the yeast blend. Hard to say what difference it made. I've never done anything similar with NaCl and no sulfate. I plan to keep using it but this was also an attempt at zero Calcium. When dosing it in finished beers I feel like it brings the fruity flavors forward.

 

[couchsending]

I'll toss in my anecdotal experience. First time using the yeast blend and overall I'm really pleased with the result.

OG 1.064 FG 1.011 IBU 108

100% RO, 10 g KCl, 1 g Baking Soda, 1 g Citric Acid, Mash pH 5.7

Did you measure your pre boil or post boil PH? I would imagine a 5.7 Mash PH would result in a rather high boil PH. I’ve tweaking my boil PH a little these days to try and get it a little lower... almost always start around 5-5.5 and I’ll acidify down to 5.2-5.3. I need to do an experiment one day where this is the only variable I change. Brulosophy did this experiment but as always their experiments leave me wanting more info.

 

[Livinon2]

Did you measure your pre boil or post boil PH? I would imagine a 5.7 Mash PH would result in a rather high boil PH. I’ve tweaking my boil PH a little these days to try and get it a little lower... almost always start around 5-5.5 and I’ll acidify down to 5.2-5.3. I need to do an experiment one day where this is the only variable I change. Brulosophy did this experiment but as always their experiments leave me wanting more info.

I didnt measure the pH. It's Bru'n estimated, but with the lack of calcium the boil pH was probably high. I wont be repeating it. I'm with you on adjusting the boil pH, reducing the solubility of some of the hop acids may be a way to gain more flavor with less lingering bitterness.

 

[Cevan65]

Question on using these dry yeasts: For those using part of a yeast package, are you vacuum sealing the rest? I brew 3 gallon batches and would need only a faction of a package of T-58 and WB-06.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

Question on using these dry yeasts: For those using part of a yeast package, are you vacuum sealing the rest? I brew 3 gallon batches and would need only a faction of a package of T-58 and WB-06.

Unfortunately I ended up throwing away the left over yeast from my attempt. I actually just found an online deal for a vacuum sealer this week (enabler for buying hops in bulk), so I will be vacuum sealing the leftover yeast when I brew attempt 2 this weekend. I wonder if they really need to be vacuum sealed. But if you already have a vacuum sealer it can't hurt to stack the odds.