Isolated Yeast (Tree House): How to Identify and Characterize?

[overthebarsbrewing]

your spunding valves could have leaks. If you're priming with sugar, you don't need a spunding valve. Just do the calculations, seal the keg, and walk away. spunding valves are only really useful for keeping a positive pressure inside a fermenter or carbonating with residual sugars

I guess that's also a possibility. Seems somewhat unlikely though since they are newly-made, only used once, and worked great one week prior to this current use.

Agree though that they really aren't needed w/ dextrose priming...but (when working right), they are pretty cool to look at as they show the keg's building pressure like it should...

 

[Dog House Brew]

After 2 days in bottle conditioning. Here's SO4/T-58... 3:1 ratio... conditioned w/ CBC-1. Slight juicy fruit gum but mostly reminiscent of traditional orange Julius. Hops were 1:1 citra and azacca w/ some Columbus/centennial/motueka in the kettle. Almost prefer the SO4/Conan/T-58 blend more. Just glad they clock in w/ slightly diff profiles. Still have my SO4/1318/T-58 batch to report on. Cheers

That beer is beautiful. Being from the Midwest it is almost impossible to find any NEIPA. Is your color coming from honey malt? I had planned to brew a split with 007 and 1318. I thought about 2row, wheat malt, and GNOats. Now I look at that pic and it makes me ask.

 

[Dog House Brew]

After 2 days in bottle conditioning. Here's SO4/T-58... 3:1 ratio... conditioned w/ CBC-1. Slight juicy fruit gum but mostly reminiscent of traditional orange Julius. Hops were 1:1 citra and azacca w/ some Columbus/centennial/motueka in the kettle. Almost prefer the SO4/Conan/T-58 blend more. Just glad they clock in w/ slightly diff profiles. Still have my SO4/1318/T-58 batch to report on. Cheers

That beer is beautiful. Being from the Midwest it is almost impossible to find any NEIPA. Is your color coming from honey malt? I had planned to brew a split with 007 and 1318. I thought about 2row, wheat malt, and GNOats. Now I look at that pic and it makes me ask.

 

[isomerization]

I guess that's also a possibility. Seems somewhat unlikely though since they are newly-made, only used once, and worked great one week prior to this current use.

Agree though that they really aren't needed w/ dextrose priming...but (when working right), they are pretty cool to look at as they show the keg's building pressure like it should...

I keep the spunding valve off and just hook it up each time I check. Works the same to see the cool factor and you don't lose anything to slow leaks.

 

[TheHairyHop]

Yea, you may not see some of the leaks because they are so low, or perhaps only occur at elevated psi. I've heard of a number of spending valves staying open once activated as well

 

[Tijuanatovar]

That beer is beautiful. Being from the Midwest it is almost impossible to find any NEIPA. Is your color coming from honey malt? I had planned to brew a split with 007 and 1318. I thought about 2row, wheat malt, and GNOats. Now I look at that pic and it makes me ask.

About 7% honeymalt yeah. You're on a good track I'd say. Cheers!

 

[NJGeorge]

Another question on natural carbing. I'm doing half batches here and will be transferring around 2 gallons to a 5 gallon keg. Should I use the priming sugar calculator and then cut that amount in half? What are you guys doing for this?

 

[melville]

I wish to try my luck with the blend of these 3 yeasts.

I was thinking og going 85% S-04, 10% WB-06 and 5% T-58. Would the T-58 be too much at 5%?

I am thinking I want the attenuation of WB-06, but not that tartness.

My current effort is 85|10|5. In comparisons side by side with Green it seems to me that 10 for WB-06 is too high, and 5 is too low. My next effort with this mix I would probably reverse the two percentages or push them closer together 8% T-58 to 4% WB-06.

 

[melville]

For those of you who have done CBC-1 keg carbing w/ a spunding valve, have you noticed any variation in the time it's taken to get up to targeted PSI?

My 1st two kegs, the PSI was above 20PSI within ~4-5 days and hit target of 30PSI by day 7.

I now have 3 different kegs that I set up CBC-1 carbing. I used same amounts of priming sugar and pitched same amounts of CBC-1 in all 3 kegs. They all have been slow to build up pressure and are all slightly different. It's now been 8 days; the 3 kegs are at 18, 14, and 12 PSI. I've sprayed the tops of the kegs w/ starsan to try and look for any gas leaks. Nothing obvious. I'm wondering if this is a yeast thing or maybe just these 3 kegs need a complete gasket overhaul to make sure that they are as tightly sealed as possible for the natural-carbing.

Like others, I'm not using a spunding valve. I had been doing 7 days, this time did 10 days at 65F, then let it sit for 3 days cold before purging and adding some serving pressure, mouthfeel finally on point.

 

[melville]

Another question on natural carbing. I'm doing half batches here and will be transferring around 2 gallons to a 5 gallon keg. Should I use the priming sugar calculator and then cut that amount in half? What are you guys doing for this?

I use Beersmith's recs for the amount of beer I'm kegging.

 

[NJGeorge]

My current effort is 85|10|5. In comparisons side by side with Green it seems to me that 10 for WB-06 is too high, and 5 is too low. My next effort with this mix I would probably reverse the two percentages or push them closer together 8% T-58 to 4% WB-06.

Sorry to bring this up again, but wasn't it found that Green only has s-04, wb-06, and CBC-1? I think I'm going to just try those two yeasts next and leave out the 58.

 

[NJGeorge]

I use Beersmith's recs for the amount of beer I'm kegging.

Thanks! Are you desolving in water and adding to the fermenter before transferring, or just to the keg?

 

[melville]

Sorry to bring this up again, but wasn't it found that Green only has s-04, wb-06, and CBC-1? I think I'm going to just try those two yeasts next and leave out the 58.

Definitely don't do that. The odds are likely, certain even, that it had T-58, just didn't pick that out amongst many rolls of the dice. After tasting another separate experiment, I think I would definitely lean a bit more on T-58 than WB-06. The WB-06 taste is unmistakable once you play with it in higher percentages and I don't get that in Green. (This is not to say it won't be good or you won't like it).

 

[melville]

Thanks! Are you desolving in water and adding to the fermenter before transferring, or just to the keg?

I mix the sugar with water, toss it into the keg after the transfer along with a keg hop addition and CBC-1 and then purge again.

 

[overthebarsbrewing]

Like others, I'm not using a spunding valve. I had been doing 7 days, this time did 10 days at 65F, then let it sit for 3 days cold before purging and adding some serving pressure, mouthfeel finally on point.

Thanks to you and others for the feedback & advice. I think I am going to let them sit for another 5-6 days at RT. Honestly I have no choice as there's no space in my keezer to put all of them yet!

If they don't get up to 25-30 PSI by then, I'm just going to eventually put them under CO2 at required pressure to finish off carbonation. No worries.

Cheers!

 

[Dog House Brew]

About 7% honeymalt yeah. You're on a good track I'd say. Cheers!

Is your FG in the 12 range?

 

[Tijuanatovar]

Is your FG in the 12 range?

Mine ended up being pretty high actually. 1.023 at 156F mash. Although it doesn't taste sweet. Double pitched at 200B per 2 gallons at 67F.

 

[Dog House Brew]

About 7% honeymalt yeah. You're on a good track I'd say. Cheers!

Is your FG in the 12 range?

 

[Dog House Brew]

I keep getting double posts sorry. 023 normally is sweet, but I guess the water profile and hops balance that. I will up my mash temp then. I wish I could try those NEIPA like TH. I'm looking forward to brewing this. I'm doing kettle Columbus, whirlpool and dry with Mosaic, Ekuanot, and Amarillo. What I have in the freezer.
Thinking 80% Golden Promise
12% Wheat
4% GNO 4% Honey
Thanks

 

[drelickj]

I am about 10-12 batches in of NEIPA in the past year or so and I have tried various yeasts (admittedly not T-58 yet) and when comparing to TH there are a few things that stick out. Obviously TH has the sweet bubblegum type flavor/aroma in their beers which a few here have mentioned getting from WB-06 or T-58. I tried a batch with S-04 and a small amount of WB-06 and it tasted far more hefe than IPA even with a massive amount of citrus hops. Is T-58 the "bubblegum" contributor? Has anyone found a consistent way to evoke this?

The other thing is that TH is able to derive maximum hop flavor in their beers. Even bright w/ citra, which they say uses a neutral yeast (s04 I assume?) has a significant citra flavor profile. All of their beers utilizing their house yeast have that signature "bubblegum" undertone but they all have notable differences in the predominant hop flavor. Green has massive pineapple from galaxy, C28 was supremely tangerine forward, etc. Is there a part of the process that can amplify these hop flavors? Nate always talks about "process" and I feel like there is more to the equation than just the yeast blend. When I brew NEIPA with various yeasts I feel like the yeast almost plays a bigger role in flavor than even an lb of late hops. I will get aroma and subtle difference in flavors btw batches but I know if I ferment with conan (or similar) I am going to get a very peachy beer. London III will usually be a little more on the grapefruit citrus side.

Sorry for the long post. I am just interested if anyone else has thoughts on this. Loving this thread though!

 

[Jmash]

My current effort is 85|10|5. In comparisons side by side with Green it seems to me that 10 for WB-06 is too high, and 5 is too low. My next effort with this mix I would probably reverse the two percentages or push them closer together 8% T-58 to 4% WB-06.

I'm brewing 5 gallons on Saturday. I usually use 1318 with a starter and stir plate but I have a packet each of s04/wb06/T-58 to try your ratio.
If 1 packet is 11.5 grams how many grams total are you using? Is the viability date on dry yeast as important as liquid?

 

[melville]

I'm brewing 5 gallons on Saturday. I usually use 1318 with a starter and stir plate but I have a packet each of us05/wb06/T-58 to try your ratio.
If 1 packet is 11.5 grams how many grams total are you using? Is the viability date on dry yeast as important as liquid?

I just use the middle range of Fermentis' suggested pitch rate which is something like 2.25g/gal.

 

[Jmash]

I did a whole packet of US04. From there figured the ratio of 85-8-5 to be 1.5 grams T58 and .5 WB06. My scale doesn't do half grams so I did the best I could. We'll see in two weeks

 

[Jmash]

I'm on day 2 and yeast is chugging away. Not as violent as 1318 but very active. 1318 always gets into my blowoff. I'm hoping you guys can save me some re-reading.
What is the consensus on the timing of first dryhop? I usually do day 4.
What is the consensus on temperature? I pitched at 64 and let it free rise. It's at 72 now. It's in a fermentation chamber so I can cool if necessary.

 

[Sbe2]

I also used a pack of S-04 on Saturday, pitched at 64f and let free rise. Problem is, it's getting cold here at nights and the heat is kicking on and warming up the basement. Anywho, I walked down to check on it and the temp is reading 78f. I can't start cooling until I get back from work and add my DH.

My question is what flavors should I expect?. I am using rahr 2-row, carafoam, and Galaxy.

 

[couchsending]

I would taste it before adding your DH... that could be a nice waste of hops... how long was it below 66 do you think?

 

[NJGeorge]

I did a whole packet of US04. From there figured the ratio of 85-8-5 to be 1.5 grams T58 and .5 WB06. My scale doesn't do half grams so I did the best I could. We'll see in two weeks

For a 5 gallon batch? I'm finally getting around to brew a 2.5 gal batch this week with these yeast. Will report back.

 

[Jmash]

Yes 5 gallon

 

[TheHairyHop]

I would taste it before adding your DH... that could be a nice waste of hops... how long was it below 66 do you think?

yea, just taste it. My Ariana batch got a little too hot and it certainly has more yeast character than I was shooting for. It was enjoyable enough that I hopped anyway. Gotta say, Ariana (like most "new" German varietals) is less than exciting

 

[Jmash]

So I'm noticing my S04/T58/WB06 yeast combo if left alone without temp control looks like it would easily heat up to 80 degrees at 64 room temp. I never noticed 1318 heating up that much. I'm keeping it below 75

 

[Sbe2]

Not sure if you all were talking to me about 66, but I pitched at 64f, 12 hrs later it was 71, this morning 78, cooled with a couple ice packs in the cooler and it was 72f when I got home. I dry hopped and will try and keep it around 71f.

Has anyone pushed S-04 that high? What flavors should I expect from the yeast being at that temp ?

 

[couchsending]

I have never pushed S-04 that high (nor any non Belgian Yeast) but I would imagine you might get some more “fruit” but also quite a few off flavors as well. Fusel’s and apples and such.

Did you taste it before DH?

 

[Sbe2]

I have never pushed S-04 that high (nor any non Belgian Yeast) but I would imagine you might get some more “fruit” but also quite a few off flavors as well. Fusel’s and apples and such.

Did you taste it before DH?

Just did, no off flavors yet. Although SG is at 1.014 with OG being 1.056.

 

[jakturner]

Not sure if you all were talking to me about 66, but I pitched at 64f, 12 hrs later it was 71, this morning 78, cooled with a couple ice packs in the cooler and it was 72f when I got home. I dry hopped and will try and keep it around 71f.

Has anyone pushed S-04 that high? What flavors should I expect from the yeast being at that temp ?

I once let an arrogant bastard clone with us-04 run up to 80 degrees on day 2 or 3 by accident, I cooled it back down as quick as I could. This was way back when I first started brewing, but I do remember that it turned out pretty good.

 

[TheHairyHop]

I once let an arrogant bastard clone with us-04 run up to 80 degrees on day 2 or 3 by accident, I cooled it back down as quick as I could. This was way back when I first started brewing, but I do remember that it turned out pretty good.

quite anecdotal, but my experience with English strains has been that underpitching throws more nasty flavors than high ferm temp.

 

[Sbe2]

For me, this style and my palate, the hops mask most of the mistakes that I may make during my process.

 

[h22lude]

Is the current recipe and yeast combo out there somewhere? I tried going back pages and couldn't find it.

 

[TheHairyHop]

I just naturally carbed a keg with CBC, WB and T58. The flavor profile noticeably changed, and I don't lose the body in the way that my force carbed S04/T58 did

 

[The_Dirty_Spring]

I just naturally carbed a keg with CBC, WB and T58. The flavor profile noticeably changed, and I don't lose the body in the way that my force carbed S04/T58 did

How long do you carb/condition in keg before chilling down? Lallemand instructs 2 weeks but on my most recent effort 1 week seemed fully carb'd so I threw it in the fridge (last night).

 

[Sbe2]

I just naturally carbed a keg with CBC, WB and T58. The flavor profile noticeably changed, and I don't lose the body in the way that my force carbed S04/T58 did

How much CBC did you use?