Is this something to worry about - floaters/pellicle on top of mead.

[Romario]

I made a mead, used 15lb of wildflower honey. I am not sure if it's pasteurized, it probably is, but it didn't say anything about it on the label.

I didn't boil or heated the must. Used D47 yeast plus tosna nutrient additions.

The mead fermented for about 1 1/2 month and is pretty dry, tastes decent, a bit alcoholic, but no major off-flavors. I think the gravity now is around 1.00, I didn't measure lately, but the fermentation is stopped/

Here are the pictures of the mead https://imgur.com/gallery/v472gaK


- floaters appeared a little while after I transferred to secondary. Should I be worried about them?

 

[bernardsmith]

Hiya, Romario, and welcome. Don't know that you should be worried about this but unless you were aiming for mold or some kind of bacterial contamination not entirely sure how or why mold should be growing on top of your mead. But a couple of thoughts.
1. Sorry, I am a literalist. You say this batch was fermenting for 1.5 months? Actively fermenting for 45 days? That's a wee bit surprising. A week, two weeks perhaps but that sounds like a very slow fermentation. Why so slow? What was the starting SG? How many packs of D47 did you use? What kind of nutrients? Did you rehydrate the yeast? if so, how?
2. You say you used TOSNA. OK, but at what point was it when you added the last of the nutrients? Yeast cannot use any nutrients when there is about 9% ABV. You don't provide us with the volume so it is hard to know what the starting gravity was and so impossible to know at what point the 9% would have been hit. If you added nutrient after that time the compounds would have hung around, perhaps been a good source of energy for any microbes and if they floated on the surface may have provided a perfect source of food for mold.
3. You may be a literalist too, and when you saw a recipe for X gallons you made certain that your batch was X gallons and not 1 cc more. Trouble is that carboys hold more than X and the amount of headroom in your photo suggests that there is a great deal of air filling that space. Well, alcohol and air is not a great mixture and you may have then invited all kinds of problems into your vessel. But you say the mead tastes "decent" and that there are no MAJOR off-flavors.. Okay. What kind of minor off flavors can you taste?
So, no good answers but lots of questions...

 

[Romario]

1. It was fermenting pretty fast for the first 2-3 weeks, then it slowed down, but I could still see visible bubbles coming up 1 month after fermentation started. Starting OG was 1.107 if I remember correctly. 15lb honey in 5 gallons of water. Two packs of D47. I used this site as guidance - http://www.meadmaderight.com/tosna.html and re-hydrated with go ferm.

2. Final nutrient was on day 7 after pitching yeast as per website above. It was mostly Fermaid-K, but I ran out of it for the last addition, so I substituted for Fermaid-O (I calculated how much I needed via conversion, don't remember exactly now but I used one of the formulas that converts from O to K via how much FAN there is).

3. I mixed water to honey until it made about 5 gallons of must, maybe a bit more. When I transferred to secondary it was a bit lower, so I added water to reduce headspace. The reason there is more air in headspace now is because I sampled it several times to measure gravity and see how it tastes, I was thinking that I might want to add more water to reduce it back.

 

[RPh_Guy]

That's not mold, it's a pellicle (indicating wild yeast and/or bacteria). I wouldn't "worry" about it since it's not dangerous, but I'd probably be cold crashing, racking, and probably stabilizing. Topping up the carboy is a good idea too.

... I'm confused whether you mostly used Fermaid O or Fermaid K. What was the gravity at the time of the final addition?
I'd also want to confirm the FG before doing anything.

 

[Romario]

That's not mold, it's a pellicle (indicating wild yeast and/or bacteria). I wouldn't "worry" about it since it's not dangerous, but I'd probably be cold crashing, racking, and probably stabilizing. Topping up the carboy is a good idea too.

... I'm confused whether you mostly used Fermaid O or Fermaid K. What was the gravity at the time of the final addition?
I'd also want to confirm the FG before doing anything.

Oh, I made a mistake in my post above, I used mostly Fermaid O, only on last addition I used Fermaid K. I have the notes on gravity at home, as far as I remember on the day 7 it was close to 1/3 sugar break (1.080 or so if I remember correctly).

 

[bernardsmith]

What does "1/3 sugar break" mean? My ignorance here, but I have a very hard time understanding how pseudo beer jargon is translated into wine making - What is a "sugar break"? There are no "sugar breaks" in wine making. It's not like a "hot-" or "cold break" in brewing - the temperature at which proteins precipitate and clump together, or the pH of wine when the addition of sodium hydroxide changes the color of the indicator to red (it's always 8.2). If your starting gravity was 1.107 then 1/3 loss of sugar would be about 35 or 36 points and so a gravity of 1.071, which is considerably lower than 1.080 , no? And if by "1/3 sugar break" you mean there is 1/3 of the total sugar left that would suggest that the gravity would be 1.036 so neither of those points are at 1.080. But a drop in 35 points would suggest that your mead had about 4.5% ABV so that would not be a problem for assimilating the nutrient, whereas a drop in 70 points would be more than 9% ABV and THAT would indicate a problem for the yeast in being able to assimilate the nutrients.

 

[RPh_Guy]

The TOSNA 2.0 calculator refers to 33% sugar depletion as the 1/3 sugar break.
https://www.meadmakr.com/tosna-2-0/

 

[Romario]

The TOSNA 2.0 calculator refers to 33% sugar depletion as the 1/3 sugar break.
https://www.meadmakr.com/tosna-2-0/

Yes, that's what I referring to. I don't remember exact numbers, but as per that site it's either 7 days of fermenting or when 1/3 of sugar is consumed which they call 1/3 sugar break (I guess they are talking about yeast "breaking" 1/3 of sugars). I never heard people talking about sugar break in beermaking and though it was mead jargon

 

[bernardsmith]

A side bar issue to be sure - but it's one of my hobby horses: My understanding is that brewers talk about hot and cold "breaks" - the objective temperature at which proteins drop out of solution and that this idea of a "break" (only this was about the best time to add nutrition) was adopted by mead makers AS IF the point of fermentation of 1/3 of the sugars was an objective data point: After X amount of activity yeast NEED more organic compounds and nitrogen - ie., nutrition, but a starting gravity of 1.090 would have a 1/3 break when the 30 points of sugar had been fermented whereas a starting gravity of 1.060 would have a 1/3 break when only 20 points of sugar had been converted. So why would the same size colony of viable yeast need more nutrient sooner if the SG was lower than if the starting gravity was higher. Makes very little sense to me... Is TOSNA a ritual with little inherent value or is this in response to something going on with the yeast? As I say, my ignorance I am sure, but I cannot get my head around what looks like non sense presented as objective criteria.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Think maybe we've gone off track here?

Don't think the SNA was in any way related to the pellicle formation.

 

[bernardsmith]

But it could be - if the yeast cannot use some or any of the nutrition then there is enough organic material in the nutrients for mold to grow on the powder if it is simply left moistened on the surface and not dissolved in the mead. You see this as pellicle (so pedd- and so air hating.) and it may be, but I see it as mold - and so air loving...

 

[Romario]

So I Put some campden tablets into the mead (5 of them) and gelatin fined and did a cold crash. The things on top disappeared, it looks relatively clear.

I measured the FG, it's 1.002

 

[Yooper]

So I Put some campden tablets into the mead (5 of them) and gelatin fined and did a cold crash. The things on top disappeared, it looks relatively clear.

I measured the FG, it's 1.002

That's good- but make sure you rack to a new vessel and this time top it up to within an inch of the bung. That's how things take old- headspace in a vessel.

 

[Yooper]

A side bar issue to be sure - but it's one of my hobby horses: My understanding is that brewers talk about hot and cold "breaks" - the objective temperature at which proteins drop out of solution and that this idea of a "break" (only this was about the best time to add nutrition) was adopted by mead makers AS IF the point of fermentation of 1/3 of the sugars was an objective data point: After X amount of activity yeast NEED more organic compounds and nitrogen - ie., nutrition, but a starting gravity of 1.090 would have a 1/3 break when the 30 points of sugar had been fermented whereas a starting gravity of 1.060 would have a 1/3 break when only 20 points of sugar had been converted. So why would the same size colony of viable yeast need more nutrient sooner if the SG was lower than if the starting gravity was higher. Makes very little sense to me... Is TOSNA a ritual with little inherent value or is this in response to something going on with the yeast? As I say, my ignorance I am sure, but I cannot get my head around what looks like non sense presented as objective criteria.

SNAs at sugar breaks are commonly done in meadmaking- it's part of the routine of making mead and it's not nonsense, etc. Making mead is similar to wine in many ways, but it also differs in quite a few ways, and most serious meadmakers do follow the routine.

It does not come from hot break/cold break or other brewing jargon- it has a real and defined role in meadmaking.

 

[Shine0n]

When you transfer to another carboy leave almost no airspace below the bung.
I usually do melomels in a 5 gal bucket and when I transfer to my 3 gal I usually have some leftover that I put in smaller jars, quarts, half gallon, one gallon etc. etc.
Also, did the mead taste differently since the pellicle ? maybe a bit sour or no?

 

[Romario]

When you transfer to another carboy leave almost no airspace below the bung.
I usually do melomels in a 5 gal bucket and when I transfer to my 3 gal I usually have some leftover that I put in smaller jars, quarts, half gallon, one gallon etc. etc.
Also, did the mead taste differently since the pellicle ? maybe a bit sour or no?

No sourness, it's pretty enjoyable already. The only thing is that you can smell alcohol on it, but I think with aging it will become rounder.

I was thinking if I should just bottle and age in bottles or move it to smaller 1g bottles.

 

[bernardsmith]

SNAs at sugar breaks are commonly done in meadmaking- it's part of the routine of making mead and it's not nonsense, etc. Making mead is similar to wine in many ways, but it also differs in quite a few ways, and most serious meadmakers do follow the routine.

It does not come from hot break/cold break or other brewing jargon- it has a real and defined role in meadmaking.

OK - but what is the "break" that is being referred to? In brewing presumably the proteins drop out of solution at known temperatures. They become visible. And in mead making that happens to sugars? I. don't. think. so.

 

[divrack]

It's probably some kind of Brett. Might give a good flavour.
I've found that by the time pellicle forms you can taste, smell whether it's good or bad already.

 

[Yooper]

OK - but what is the "break" that is being referred to? In brewing presumably the proteins drop out of solution at known temperatures. They become visible. And in mead making that happens to sugars? I. don't. think. so.

http://meadscience.blogspot.com/2014/05/sugar-breaks-and-sna-timing.html

 

[bernardsmith]

http://meadscience.blogspot.com/2014/05/sugar-breaks-and-sna-timing.html

Right and that is precisely why this whole talk of "sugar breaks" is in my opinion incredibly questionable - A wine or mead with a starting gravity of 1.090 will have 1/3 sugar break at .060 and the next break at .030 - Not a problem, the yeast may really need additional nutrients when they have consumed 30 points of sugar and again when they have consumed 60 points. But wait: a wine or mead with a starting gravity of 1.060 will have a 1/3 sugar break when the yeast have consumed 20 points of sugar and again when they have consumed 40 points.... That means that the lower the starting gravity the MORE the yeast need additional nutrient sooner...What? Say that again: the lower the starting gravity, the greater the yeast's need for nutrients earlier? Well, that makes very little sense when nutrient load seems to based on volume, and not starting gravity... So, I repeat the fact that folk refer to "sugar breaks" AS IF they are real (or even "mile markers") does not make very good sense to me. But the world was at the center of the universe and that made good sense to anyone who looked up at the skies for millennia. Just sayin'.

 

[RPh_Guy]

What? Say that again: the lower the starting gravity, the greater the yeast's need for nutrients earlier?

The lower OG mead presumably had less yeast pitched into it, so yeast in both meads consume the same amount of sugar to reach the 33% depletion mark (1/3 sugar break).

 

[kh54s10]

OK - but what is the "break" that is being referred to? In brewing presumably the proteins drop out of solution at known temperatures. They become visible. And in mead making that happens to sugars? I. don't. think. so.

Grammar police: I don't know much if anything about mead making but the answer was given long ago. The "break" is just a word given to when the sugars consumed reached a certain percentage.....

 

[Romario]

Right and that is precisely why this whole talk of "sugar breaks" is in my opinion incredibly questionable - A wine or mead with a starting gravity of 1.090 will have 1/3 sugar break at .060 and the next break at .030 - Not a problem, the yeast may really need additional nutrients when they have consumed 30 points of sugar and again when they have consumed 60 points. But wait: a wine or mead with a starting gravity of 1.060 will have a 1/3 sugar break when the yeast have consumed 20 points of sugar and again when they have consumed 40 points.... That means that the lower the starting gravity the MORE the yeast need additional nutrient sooner...What? Say that again: the lower the starting gravity, the greater the yeast's need for nutrients earlier? Well, that makes very little sense when nutrient load seems to based on volume, and not starting gravity... So, I repeat the fact that folk refer to "sugar breaks" AS IF they are real (or even "mile markers") does not make very good sense to me. But the world was at the center of the universe and that made good sense to anyone who looked up at the skies for millennia. Just sayin'.

It's not a hard number, but there were papers where they measured when yeast stops replicating and starts consuming sugars, after that point it's detrimental to add nutrients, they won't be consumed by yeast and the nutrients might contribute to unwanted things growing in mead.
That point is at about the amount of sugars being consumed and that's why the it's being referred to and that's the reason it has the specific name.
Look here for a paper about it: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11pW-dC91OupCYKX-zld73ckg9ximXwxbmpLFOqv6JEk/edit

The amount of nutrition added also depends on your original gravity, so 1.090 will have a different amount than 1.060, 1/3 just tells you the pace of fermentation.

 

[bernardsmith]

The lower OG mead presumably had less yeast pitched into it, so yeast in both meads consume the same amount of sugar to reach the 33% depletion mark (1/3 sugar break).

It does? That's not my understanding. Higher gravity musts have more yeasts pitched so that the total amount of viable cells is about the same for any SG. That many wine and mead makers may not follow that rule is their business but that is not what the yeast labs suggest.

 

[bernardsmith]

Grammar police: I don't know much if anything about mead making but the answer was given long ago. The "break" is just a word given to when the sugars consumed reached a certain percentage.....

Yeah? so why use the term "break" - why not say "when 1/3 of the sugars are depleted" , "when 1/2 of the sugars are depleted", or "when 2/3 of the sugars are depleted"? Why not? Because that would raise the same question I am raising - If the time to add more nutrient is because the yeast need the nutrients THEN , then how come this need is needed SOONER when the starting gravity is lower? Makes sense? I don't think so.

 

[Yooper]

Yeah? so why use the term "break" - why not say "when 1/3 of the sugars are depleted" , "when 1/2 of the sugars are depleted", or "when 2/3 of the sugars are depleted"? Why not? Because that would raise the same question I am raising - If the time to add more nutrient is because the yeast need the nutrients THEN , then how come this need is needed SOONER when the starting gravity is lower? Makes sense? I don't think so.

Because every meadmaker uses that term- sugar break. You may not like it, but that's the accepted terminology for a known procedure with science to back it up. Call it whatever you want, but perhaps ranting about terminology that isn't in your lexicon isn't helping the OP here in the mead forum so we should probably just get back on topic. If you want to continue the merits of making up new terms you do like in meadmaking, then please start another thread. Thank you.

 

[Yooper]

In any case, pellicles in mead are never a good sign. Please keep us posted on any changes after this mead is racked and topped up after the campden. It's possible that you may need a larger dose of campden, since the dose you used is a typical "antioxidant" dose and not necessarily going to halt an infection.

 

[divrack]

Duudes... It's all just, like, semantics and stuff man... What even is words?.. who is anything. Why is mead? Aren't we all mead on the deepest level? Pellicle are a totally awesome band...man. freaking awesome