Is this pulp? Yeast?

[Trauts]

(Prior to this point, I've only made ginger wine at least 4 times, lime wine from concentrate, then a ginger cyser. They all had more or less the same behavior, other than the mead needing to age and the others not. But none of them were made from puree. They were basically what boiled down to 'strongly flavored water.' Pun not intended; there was no boiling here, which alone made me a little nervous.)

I improvised a peach wine recipe after reading a number of other recipes. Using peach puree. (It was more or less the recipe on the can, but sweetening with some 'white grape peach juice' and then sugar when that ran out). Lalvin D47 yeast. Maybe worth noting the temperature has hovered around 70 degrees with the AC on, with maybe 6 hours where it was hotter)

It's been going for two weeks and still bubbling through the airlock regularly, but if you look inside, there are only tiny bubbles at the top. (None of this part worries me)

My bigger concern is that shortly after a week (possibly sooner, but I wasn't worried at first since I figured it'd settle), I started getting what I thought was a THICK yeast cake. Like, 1/3 of a carboy. And what looked like possibly some dark chunks in the back of one of the carboys, but hard to tell, as I'm trying not to disturb it.

I took these photos to post here, then realized that it doesn't look like a consistent thickness. (It's in a tub just-in-case, so I hadn't seen the bottom before)

There's actually what looks like a normal amount of yeast at the bottom, then a much, much thicker layer of stuff that looks like yeast but not compared to the part that's definitely a yeast cake.

This has led me to think that it's probably pulp "or something" from the puree. But I added what I thought was plenty of pectic enzyme.

Everything I found via searching suggested this might be something expected after 30+ days and just to rack it regularly, or that it might just be a lot lost. But this was almost immediately, and I don't want to lose that much! Is this nothing unusual and will probably settle? Should I add more pectic enzyme? (Hate to open an airlock, but if that's necessary, worth it...)

I recently bought a cornelius keg, so I could rack into there if needed, which would help with adding more pectic enzyme, but I could just as easily put some powder (or distilled-water-dissolved) pectic enzyme in the tops of all 4 carboys. I could also wait until the airlocks stop bubbling, rack into the keg and off the lees (which are much thinner than I thought), and add pectic enzyme then.

What should I do?

 

[Yooper]

Yes, it looks like pectin settling out, and some yeast on the bottom. You don't need more pectic enzyme, as it seems to have done the job well.

 

[Trauts]

heh, you were the person responding on pretty much every thread I was reading that was even tangentially related I guess you have almost 71k posts, so that shouldn't be too surprising

Once the pectin has settled a lot more, will moving the carboy move it back into suspension and take weeks to settle again? Or will it settle more quickly after it has settled the first time?

At some point, I have to move the carboys onto the counter to siphon, which is a fair ways away. This has always thrown the yeast cakes up, but that settles within a day or two, typically.

Thanks again for the reassurance

 

[bernardsmith]

Hi Trauts - Fruit under fermentation produce lees and some fruit produces enormous amounts of lees. I have yet to try to make a wine from peaches - the flavor of peaches is too "thin" for the way I prefer my wines- but fruits like mango can result in sediment (lees) that take up about 1/3 of the carboy. Cannot say how well packed the sediment will become but rack the wine from above the sediment and then transfer the sediment into a tall but narrow container and store in the fridge. After a few days the wine will rise towards the top and the sediment will fall towards the bottom and you can then rack more wine from the container and top up your secondary..

 

[Trauts]

interesting. I'll try that when fermentation completes.

I'm currently planning to rack to secondary when the bubbling stops, and then try the refrigerator trick on what is left. I did more forum searching and it sounds like a lot of people recommend racking off the yeast cake before that point. I don't have more vessels for fermentation (or places to rack to) besides the cornelius keg i'm planning to use for secondary and aging. I've been tempted to get a second keg so that I could just rack by going between them, cleaning one, and racking back after a while. If I did that, would there be any harm in racking more than usual, since oxygen wouldn't be introduced?

Original was SG 1.09, not compensating for pulp, and recipe i based it off of suggested racking off at 1.03, though I haven't measured the current state because it's still bubbling nicely. Planning to ferment until bone dry, then backsweeten later.

I want it to be as strong a peach flavor as possible, which is why I haven't already racked (and I'm tempted to bring along any pulp into secondary. Bad idea? Pulp is currently still settling a bit)

Right now, with the closet door closed, it smells yeasty, but given a chance to vent there's almost no odor.

It's been going for about 2 weeks now, and I don't think the yeast itself is particularly thick. Can I wait until the bubbling stops safely, since the yeast isn't super thick?

I've read through most of a 28 page mango wine thread, but it hasn't answered all my questions.

Many thanks to both of you! Sorry for being the anxious newbie. I know there's a lot of us.

 

[Yooper]

interesting. I'll try that when fermentation completes.

I'm currently planning to rack to secondary when the bubbling stops, and then try the refrigerator trick on what is left. I did more forum searching and it sounds like a lot of people recommend racking off the yeast cake before that point. I don't have more vessels for fermentation (or places to rack to) besides the cornelius keg i'm planning to use for secondary and aging. I've been tempted to get a second keg so that I could just rack by going between them, cleaning one, and racking back after a while. If I did that, would there be any harm in racking more than usual, since oxygen wouldn't be introduced?

Original was SG 1.09, not compensating for pulp, and recipe i based it off of suggested racking off at 1.03, though I haven't measured the current state because it's still bubbling nicely. Planning to ferment until bone dry, then backsweeten later.

I want it to be as strong a peach flavor as possible, which is why I haven't already racked (and I'm tempted to bring along any pulp into secondary. Bad idea? Pulp is currently still settling a bit)

Right now, with the closet door closed, it smells yeasty, but given a chance to vent there's almost no odor.

It's been going for about 2 weeks now, and I don't think the yeast itself is particularly thick. Can I wait until the bubbling stops safely, since the yeast isn't super thick?

I've read through most of a 28 page mango wine thread, but it hasn't answered all my questions.

Many thanks to both of you! Sorry for being the anxious newbie. I know there's a lot of us.

You'll want to rack off of the lees more than once- usually wine will take several rackings before packaging. Leaving it on the lees won't give you stronger fruit flavor- it might give it a weird flavor- so rack whenever you have lees 1/4" thick or more, or after 60 days in a new vessel if there are any lees at all.

 

[Trauts]

This wine ended up coming out (after a month) incredibly acidic. I used an acid test kit and it came out as 0.8%

None of the ingredients I used were particularly acidic. Peach puree and peach juice.

I know I have a variety of options here, and I'll try those, but I'm more interested in finding out what happened. Between adding some store-bought peach juice (needs to be backsweetened anyway) and using one of the various additives, I'm sure I can get it to drinkable level.

It was on the lees too long, and the fruit was never removed. I get those things could create off tastes, but it seems impossible that would result in such a high acidity. So where did that come from?

 

[bernardsmith]

Titratable acidity is not the same as pH. pH is a measure of the STRENGTH of the acid whereas TA is a measure of the AMOUNT of the acid. The 0.8% is a little high but that tells me only the amount of the acids in the wine - It does not tell me whether that acid is particularly strong or weak. Peaches contain citric and malic acids, not tartaric acid (grapes) and tartaric acid is far more bitter than citric BUT the mere fact that your wine is .8% acid (and it is likely to be different as TA kits are calibrated to test for tartaric acid - the main acid in grapes) does not say anything about how it tastes. Is there too much acidity for the ABV? For the richness of flavor? Is .8 % insufficient? Have you tasted this wine and find it too bitter? Most white wines are going to have a TA of around .7%

 

[Trauts]

Wow, sounds like I need to buy some pH strips, too, so that in the future I can have a better understanding of what's wrong when the taste is off. In the future, should I take both pH and TA, and just make sure one is high while the other is low, essentially? Are there any other tools better suited for fruit wines? (I'm unlikely to ever make grape wine, but i have a new batch of peach wine and a batch of rhubarb-raspberry wine, etc, and that's the kind of thing I'll make. Generally 10-14% ABV)

It was sort of a bitter sour. Taking a swig made me do that head shake/shudder thing people do when they take a shot of hard alcohol.

No amount of sugar added could compensate for that until it was like drinking syrup and you couldn't really taste anything but the sugar. I diluted it and added potassium carbonate and a little calcium carbonate. It took all of that for it to be palatable. Even then it didn't taste quite right, but at this point it probably just needs to age.

Still, all I knew is my acid kit said 0.8% and that fruit wines would normally be something like 0.4%-0.6% (IIRC. it has numbers on a sheet but I don't have it handy). So my "try a little of this, try a little of that" strategy probably could have backfired, then?

Thanks for that. Super helpful in pointing out areas I need more knowledge in

 

[jgmillr1]

Wow, sounds like I need to buy some pH strips, too, so that in the future I can have a better understanding of what's wrong when the taste is off. In the future, should I take both pH and TA, and just make sure one is high while the other is low, essentially? Are there any other tools better suited for fruit wines?

Yes, it is best to measure both TA and pH. The TA is effectively the acid you taste and impacts how tart the wine is perceived. The pH will provide you information on how much sulfites you should add to protect the wine against oxidation & spoilage. You also can monitor your acid / de-acidifier additions to be sure the pH stays in an acceptable range. Best to keep the pH < 3.65.

It was sort of a bitter sour. Taking a swig made me do that head shake/shudder thing people do when they take a shot of hard alcohol.

No amount of sugar added could compensate for that until it was like drinking syrup and you couldn't really taste anything but the sugar. I diluted it and added potassium carbonate and a little calcium carbonate. It took all of that for it to be palatable. Even then it didn't taste quite right, but at this point it probably just needs to age.

Still, all I knew is my acid kit said 0.8% and that fruit wines would normally be something like 0.4%-0.6% (IIRC. it has numbers on a sheet but I don't have it handy). So my "try a little of this, try a little of that" strategy probably could have backfired, then?

Thanks for that. Super helpful in pointing out areas I need more knowledge in

An acid reading of 0.8% (8g/L) is not excessive, especially for a wine that is destined to be left sweet. Usually adding sugar will eventually balance the acidity to your taste. Giving the wine some time to settle out some of the yeast will likely improve the off-flavors.

Definitely keep good notes for review later so you can make the wine again or investigate why something didn't turn out as planned.