Is Starsan good desinfectant? (spolier: no)

[MaryB]

I clean fermenters within 30 minutes of emptying them, or I fill with a concentrated PBW mixture to soak if I want a deeper clean. Not many bugs and molds will survive that alkaline environment either!

The bottom line is that Iodophor is more likely to keep mold and spores off your equipment and StarSan doesn't. When I leave my fermenter drained, but still containing the dregs of the last brew, I noticed that there would be spots of mold growing around the yeast ring in the fermenter. Now that I've switched to using Iodophor most of the time, I haven't seen mold in the fermenter. I don't believe I've changed any of my wort, yeast, or other habits, so I believe that the sanitizer change was useful.

 

[dantheman13]

This result is not surprising. A forum member, S. Cerevisiae, pointed out that StarSan is ineffective on mold and spores. He recommended a weak bleach solution, but I can't go there do to its potential effects on beer flavor. Iodophor is another halogen-based sanitizer that has been widely used in the food service industry. Other than its plastic staining tendencies, Iodophor is a pretty good sanitizer for brewery use.

But I do believe that we are all better off by varying our sanitizer use. That can include occasional use of StarSan, bleach, peracetic acid, etc. All have their benefits and drawbacks, but they are more likely to provide you with a broad spectrum of protection from brewery contaminants.

For now, Iodophor has returned to being my primary sanitizer with the others as pinch-hitters!

Unfortunately the references that Mr. Saccharomyces has read appear to be based on old or questionable Food Science literature, and all of the references out there appear to stem from the same textbook, which doesn't give any references for the actual data and makes some very basic microbiology errors in its claims about acid anionic sanitizers (see Bryan's video below). We have a discussion of this on MTF archived here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1436419659719577/ (sorry if you aren't a member). Bryan from Sui Generis, who is an expert on cell wall polarity (I scholar Googled him), also explained why the basis on which the claims that Star San is not active against yeast or mold are not biologically sound: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JC9n50RdVo[/ame]

 

[NoIguanaForZ]

Since we're so concerned about the effectiveness of Starsan, has anyone tried chlorine trifluoride for sanitizing?

 

[RichBenn]

I’m not at all concerned about Starsan. The predominant theme here is that we want the yeast we use to chew up 99+% of the fermentable sugars. When we pitch with 100 million + viable cells and oxygenate for a rapid start, the very few bacteria and yeast cells left over after a thorough clean followed by Starsan never reach sufficient quantities to have ANY perceptible effect on flavor.

There are many other brewing process problems that do, like fermentation temperature, pH during mashing and sparging, oxygen introduction post fermentation, water chemistry, etc. Focus on these things, IMHO.

 

[DanB_cdnbev]

Hi Gang, I have been doing a lot of research on Sanitizers and Disinfectants in the past few weeks, understandably. We got a few new chemical concentrates in, and I was also blowing the dust off some old stock.

I have learned a lot, and there is still a tone to learn.
As to the arguments of Sanitizer vs. Disinfectant, the most common distinction is concentrations and application methods. Many of these Bactericidal, virucidal, and fungicidal chemicals work. You simply need to do your reading. I realize it's very dry at times, but let's be honest, we are all posting on an internet forum on a subject for which there is literally hundreds of years of written research already done and redone, in over 100 languages. I doubt many of us mind a bit of dry reading.

Experiment if you enjoy it, but remember, in the scientific method, a single result is not proof. this is not the Grade 5 Science Fair. Results must be independently repeatable to be a true result and conclusion.

Now, as I am 1st, a Mechanic, and draft equipment installer, by training and experience, I will also put this in "Real World" terms, because as many of us have observed, Engineers and Scientists often fail to account for the fact that real life doesn't happen in laboratory conditions or according to Ashrae or NSF Criteria. The real world is messy, and wonderful, and surprising, and mysterious....
....In this instance, Grandma said it best: "The proof is in the pudding"... or in this case... the worth is in the wort? Sorry....[not really]
What I mean to say is, use what you are comfortable with using, that also works.

Does the beer taste good? Is it what you hoped for? Does it give the drinker the goopy-pooies? Did anyone pull a Lind Blair? Did anyone go blind from drinking less than 6 Liters? Hint: Yes, Yes, No, No, No.

Your method, and your choice of chemical are good. Relax. Have a Beer.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I have been doing a lot of research on Sanitizers and Disinfectants in the past few weeks, understandably. We got a few new chemical concentrates in, and I was also blowing the dust off some old stock.

I'd be interested in seeing what you learned, with citations.

 

[madscientist451]

For testing the desinfectants were transfered to tubes and each was innoculated with 50 microliters of corresponding culture. After 20 minutes all them were moved to agar growth-medium plates.

The method above has absolutely nothing in common with real world practices. A better experiment would be something like this:


A clean carboy or brew bucket was inoculated with (X) amount of (choice of yeast, bacteria) that would be similar to the amount found airborne in a typical home brewery. The carboy or bucket was then cleaned with hot water and PBW , following manufacturer's instructions and then Star-san was applied also following manufacturers instructions.

 

[grampamark]

It is firmly established that dihydrogen monoxide, in high concentrations, has extremely serious, sometimes fatal, effects on humans and other living things.

There’s science and then there’s illogically extreme anecdotes which may be absolutely true but, in the context of a discussion like this one, absolutely meaningless.

 

[jackyl]

Well. We have proof that StarSan will not kill a thread.

 

[BrewZer]

Well. We have proof that StarSan will not kill a thread.

...no matter how old it is.