Is pilsner a ale or lager?

[COLObrewer]

or, we could go with the fact that they basis is all malted barley, water, and yeast and say that all beers that aren't as dark as a stout are just lighter versions of stouts, regardless of any of the other differences

Now you're just being silly . . .

 

[Revvy]

or, we could go with the fact that they basis is all malted barley, water, and yeast and say that all beers that aren't as dark as a stout are just lighter versions of stouts, regardless of any of the other differences

OR we could say that all beers are just darker versions of Pilsners.

 

[Indyking]

OK, now you guys are just making fun of my poor friend's opinions!

That’s OK, I can careless, but I tell you this. He may not know as much as I thought he did; heck, he has years of experience, but he makes outstanding beers... say true.

I just hope I can produce something like his in a not-so-distant future... I'm still in the kit stage and my beer is OK so far, better than Bud for sure, but I want to get into craftsmanship at some point…

 

[COLObrewer]

. . . . . . of course the Brandywine tomato is an heirloom that can be classified as an indeterminate, pink fruited, large fruit, oblate shape with some green shoulders and some ribbed shoulders with some cracking, yield can range from low to relatively high, having potato leafs and being very meaty, flavor from insipid to superb, sometimes with a hint of smoke . . . . . . . . . . . unless you're talking about the yellow brandywine, then of course it is a golden yellow fruit with a . . . . . . . . . .

 

[GaryJohn]

to the OP...that is so weird!

I was at a liquor store the other day (a big one, with lots of craft beers) and I was looking for a certain imperial stout. The guy working there tried to sell me an imperial pilsner by the same brewery. I said "but that's a pilsner."

He said, "Yeah, pilsner is just another name for stout. They're the same thing."

WTF!? Where do these people get this idea from???



btw, pilsner is a lager.

 

[SwampassJ]

vs.

Your friend is confused. Stouts, whether brewed with ale or lager yeast aren't going to look like any pilsner, taste like any pilsner.

 

[stageseven]

My friend's opinion is based on the fact that he brews a lot of lagers that use stout-based ingredients but with a lighter malts and lager yeast.

I'm just trying to wrap my head around this statement. The only ingredients that I would really consider "stout-based" would be black patent/black barley. I think just about every other type of malt would commonly be used in recipes for a variety of different styles.

In any case, I think your friend is just thinking about styles in the wrong way. It's not really necessarily even about what specific ingredients go into it, it's more about the qualities of the end result. And as far as particular style characteristics go, stouts and pilsners are about as far from each other as you can get, regardless of whether they are fermented with a lager or an ale yeast.

It's great that your friend is a good brewer, and you can probably learn a lot about brewing from him. But the next time he tries to say a pilsner is a lighter stout, smack him in the face and say "no!".

 

[KellyK]

In a slight digression but related topic, as to the poster who had the issue with the liquor store clerk making an alternative suggestion, I really wish they wouldn't do that if they don't know what the heck they're talking about. I am brewing a Belgian Blonde for my mother. She wanted to know what it is going to taste like. I told her to go to the store and see if she could find some Leffe (since it's corporate owned, larger distribution, maybe even available in her crummy TN liquor selection). They didn't have it. The clerk at the store handed her Stella and St. Paulie Girl and told her those would be comparable choices. I kind of get the misinformed opinion on the Stella because at least it's "from" Belgium, but St. Paulie Girl????

Fortunately she called me and I saved her from thinking that her beer would taste like either of those two beers.

 

[l1ranger]

OR we could say that all beers are just darker versions of Pilsners.

now we are getting somewhere

 

[northernlad]

Well what is fact is that a Stout is not a Pilsner.
It can be made with a bottom fermenting yeast and be lagered, but is not a lager.
And, this person you know likes to talk. About things he needs more education on.

 

[Indyking]

It's great that your friend is a good brewer, and you can probably learn a lot about brewing from him. But the next time he tries to say a pilsner is a lighter stout, smack him in the face and say "no!".

Yeah, I didn't smacked him but I did tell him that people over this forum think he is full of... you know. I keep my values strong and have respect for the elderly, so I may just give him a break about the pilsner vs. stout thing. I’m already getting some advice from him though.

First thing he advised me to do was to throw my plastic bottles from the kit in the trash or give it to my kids to play. Even though the kit's manufactures say it's OK to reuse the bottles several times, he calls that a “croc of baloney” According to him, plastic is the worst choice to store beer and the idea of reusing the plastic bottles with screw caps make he wanna puke. Do you guys agree?

 

[Revvy]

First thing he advised me to do was to throw my plastic bottles from the kit in the trash or give it to my kids to play. Even though the kit's manufactures say it's OK to reuse the bottles several times, he calls that a “croc of baloney” According to him, plastic is the worst choice to store beer and the idea of reusing the plastic bottles with screw caps make he wanna puke. Do you guys agree?

More reasons to realize that he doesn't crap, or all that he knows comes from 20 years ago....you even mentioned that he doesn't follow the discussions on the web. So his mindset IS stuck way in the past and not following any developments in this RAPIDLY changing hobby.

There have been so many changes even just in the plastics industry over the last few years, especially after the bisophenol A recalls of a few years back, that modern Pet and HDPE plastics are lightyears ahead of what he thinks of them.

Heck, it's been 10 years since the first plastic beer bottles came out for Macro Breweries even...so his opinions are really outdated.

These came out in the year 2000.....Do you REALLY think that a multi-bazillion dollar macro beer industry would risk it buy putting their flagship products in something crappy?

Dude he may make, what you think is good beer. But please don't put your faith in the info he's peddling. This is where the most up to date info can be found.

 

[Indyking]

Heck, it's been 10 years since the first plastic beer bottles came out for Macro Breweries even...so his opinions are really outdated.

I know... he is the kind of guy who is doing his own brew for ages and just don't think the technology out there would do any good on improving his product because his beer is good and, most important, a whole bunch of friends like it.

I have been appreciating his beer for a while but I always thought brewing was just for geeks who spent a good deal of time learning and investing tons of money on it because he has this huge beer making paraphernalia built over the years, until I went to a party 2 months ago and drank homemade beer out of a reused 2 liter plastic (PET) bottle made by someone just like me, then, that was when I started researching and realized it doesn’t take much to do a decent beer and decided to give it a try.

I told him about the beer I had out of PET bottles and he just said “don’t be fool, go to the shop and look how many commercialized beers are available in plastic bottles, don’t you think the industry has not tried it before? It just doesn’t work well because it alters the taste of the beer in the long run”

He is also the kind of guy that won’t buy ingredients online, no matter how reputable the store is; because he thinks they are not fresh.

So, instead of listening to him, I will just learn it my way using the public information out there, like this site, to improve as I go…. I think it will be wiser…

 

[Walker]

i haven't really read this thread completely yet, but I had to open it up because it was such a simple question in the title, but had WAY to many responses to make sense.

 

[Revvy]

Buy him this shirt....

 

[l1ranger]

Buy him this shirt....

i love it

 

[stageseven]

So, instead of listening to him, I will just learn it my way using the public information out there, like this site, to improve as I go…. I think it will be wiser…

That's probably not a bad idea, but the important thing is just to separate the facts from opinions. Lots of people have different ways of making beer, but still get good results. You'll see a lot of debate on here about what's the "best" way of doing something, but at the end of the day (hopefully) everyone's just having fun and making beer. Always look for the "why" behind the things people are saying and you'll have a better understanding of how to make beer and be able to judge for yourself what works best for you.

For instance, one possible reason he could say using plastic bottles would be a problem is because they are easier to scratch than glass bottles. If you're not adequately careful with them and they get some internal scratches somehow (say from a bottle brush intended for glass bottles), they could easily start to harbor bacteria that could spoil your beer. In this case there may actually be some legitimate concern to what he's saying, but he's definitely taking it past the point of good sense.

 

[BigB]

Heck some of us still consider Pluto a planet, despite what astronomy has said in the last few years.

What???? Next you are going to say that Santa Claus isn't real!

Otherwise I agree with everything you said.:cross:

 

[KevinW]

Lager is a process and a yeast type!
Ale is a type of yeast!

Schwarzbier is a type of lager! (made with lager yeast)
Alt is a type of ale! (made with ale yeast)
Stout is a type of ale! (made with ale yeast)
Steam beer is a type of lager! (made with lager yeast at ale temps)
Kolsch is a Hybrid?? (ale yeast at lager temps)

But they are all beer no matter what you call them and that is all that matters!!
Go beer!

 

[RCCOLA]

How about some BJCP style guidelines to further clarify this ridiculous thread?-->Pilsner http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style02.php
Stout--> http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style13.php

 

[Indyking]

How about some BJCP style guidelines to further clarify this ridiculous thread?-->Pilsner http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style02.php
Stout--> http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style13.php

Mind your manners... I knew about BJCP guidelines before even opening this thread… that's why I raised the question to begin with, since a friend, who brews good beer for about 30 years (yes that long), told me that pilsners are a kind of light stouts... he meant light in color... not light in carbohydrate content as some of our commercial drinks which marketing calls beer.

When I think about 60 replies for such a simple question, that probably means there was some interesting discussion going on here... or we just like to be silly sometimes...