Is DMS a Concern? - Boiled with Lid On

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Rattlesnakeneale

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Hello! I haven't been on here in quite a long time. :) For my birthday, my girlfriend bought me an 11 gallon pot, so I could finally do a full-volume boil. Up until now, I'd generally boiled about 3 gallons before topping off the fermenter. My crappy electric stove wouldn't get my 5.75 gallons of Belgian Blond wort up to a rolling boil, unless I added the lid. (I'm going to buy a turkey fryer for future batches, now that I know this.) I didn't realize that this was an issue until reading a BYO article on how to reduce DMS, and they said that boiling with the lid off was one of the most important steps. I didn't taste any in the sweet wort before transferring to the fermenter. It's been in a 5 gallon carboy w/ a blow-off tube for about 12 hours and the fermentation has already taken off really quickly. Do you think I need to be concerned about DMS in my final product? I really hope not. I was very excited about this batch. It's my first partial-mash recipe I've designed and made myself, since getting out of the hobby for a couple of years due to a rocky marriage.

4.5 lbs. Belgian Pilsner Malt
12 oz. Aromatic Malt
12 oz. CaraPils
1.5 lbs. Clear Candi Sugar
4 lbs. Pilsner DME
2 oz. Saaz (3.4% - 60 minutes)
1 oz. Saaz (3.4% - 20 minutes)
2 packs - Wyeast Belgian Ardennes - #3522 (Pitched at 65 degrees, allowed to rise up to 70 degrees for fermentation.)

BIAB mashing schedule:
Saccharification @ 152 degrees in 6.25 gallons of water for 75 minutes
Mash Out @ 168 degrees for 10 minutes
 
If DMS wasn't a concern, there wouldn't be a bunch of information out there on how to avoid it / more homebrewers would boil with lids on / etc.

Will it be a (valid) concern with this beer you've already brewed? Time will tell, I suppose.
 
Give it a taste when it's finished. You may not be able to taste it. Maybe others would?

While there is a lot made of boiling without a lid, there are many things in homebrewing taken as gospel that may not necessarily ring true. Perhaps this is one of them.

But the science is well understood, so for me I will continue to boil with the lid off until reliable studies indicate otherwise.

EDIT: Correct a typo.
 
Last edited:
blizz81 said:
If DMS wasn't a concern, there wouldn't be a bunch of information out there on how to avoid it / more homebrewers would boil with lids on / etc.

Will it be a (valid) concern with this beer you've already brewed? Time will tell, I suppose.
Click to expand...
I didn't really mean is DMS a concern in general, because it obviously is. I was more curious about whether or not it would be very perceptible in this style of beer with my ingredients, techniques, etc. And whether it's possible to not taste it in the wort, but to be able to taste it in the finished product.
 
Homercidal said:
Give it a taste when it's finished. You may not be able to taste it. Maybe others would?

While there is a lot made of boiling without a lid, there are many things in homebrewing taken as gospel that may not necessarily ring true. Perhaps this is one of them.

But the science is well understood, so for me I will continue to boil with the lid off until reliable studies indicate otherwise.

EDIT: Correct a typo.
Click to expand...

You've got a good point. The dude at Brulosophy has been steadily debunking a lot of that gospel. I really like seeing his experiments, as I feel it helps me RDWHAH. :) I will definitely be moving to a more powerful burner for my future batches, though, just in case.

I just worry that even a little DMS may distract from the delicate malt and yeast flavors of a Belgian Blond. If I couldn't taste it in the sweet wort, is that in any way indicative of whether or not it would be present in perceptible amounts in the finished product?
 
I think DMS mostly applies to Pilsner malt, but I don't know that much about it. I just leave the lid off and don't worry about it.

As far as Brulosopher's exBeeriments, I enjoy them too, but I wonder how much they actually answer. With such a small sample size the numbers can be misleading. And I don't believe the tastings should be performed by the average Joe. I would think that we would be more interested in eliminating ALL noticeable traces of a certain flavor or characteristic, not just what a percentage of the average person can perceive.

In this case, if there was an experiment to determine if DMS was noticeable, I would want to define the expected results across all malts and recipes (A very ambitious undertaking), and I'd like the numbers to be based on people who are very good at tasting those DMS. Most people are deficient at tasting at least some things compared to the average person, and some are super tasters.
 
Rattlesnakeneale said:
I didn't really mean is DMS a concern in general, because it obviously is. I was more curious about whether or not it would be very perceptible in this style of beer with my ingredients, techniques, etc. And whether it's possible to not taste it in the wort, but to be able to taste it in the finished product.
Click to expand...


It's a pretty subjective thing. May be more susceptible in general with pilsner malt. But the best we can do now is send hope to the beer gods anyways.
 
Also, I guess I should mention that even though I had a lid on, it was not very tight fitting. I actually undershot my boil-off calculations and lost about a gallon of wort to boil-off. I still had to top off the fermenter with about 1/4 gallon of water. I'd hope that even with the lid on, that much evaporation would've gotten rid of a lot of the DMS.
 
Homercidal said:
I think DMS mostly applies to Pilsner malt, but I don't know that much about it. I just leave the lid off and don't worry about it.

As far as Brulosopher's exBeeriments, I enjoy them too, but I wonder how much they actually answer. With such a small sample size the numbers can be misleading. And I don't believe the tastings should be performed by the average Joe. I would think that we would be more interested in eliminating ALL noticeable traces of a certain flavor or characteristic, not just what a percentage of the average person can perceive.

In this case, if there was an experiment to determine if DMS was noticeable, I would want to define the expected results across all malts and recipes (A very ambitious undertaking), and I'd like the numbers to be based on people who are very good at tasting those DMS. Most people are deficient at tasting at least some things compared to the average person, and some are super tasters.
Click to expand...

I completely agree. I take his exBeeriments with a grain of salt, just like any non-replicated study with a small sample size. Sometimes though, it is nice to know that my average Joe friends likely won't be able to tell the difference when I screw up. :)

Anyways, this likely won't be a competition brew (maybe next time), but hopefully it turns out drinkable at least.

Thank you so much for your feedback!
 
In case anyone was curious, it's been 2.5 weeks in primary, and I don't taste any DMS! Unfortunately, the SG has only gotten down to 1.032 after all this time. :( OG was 1.073. I'm not sure if the fermentation is truly stuck, as there is still visible, albeit minor, fermentation activity showing in the beer and the airlock. Yeah, I know that everyone is going to first chastise me for not using a starter, but I have used Wyeast Smack Packs dozens of times, and have never had a stuck fermentation. I use 1 if the OG is < 1.060, and 2 if the OG is > 1.060, which was the case for this beer. The fermentation temps have been steady, so I'm not sure what is wrong. I've read some theories that you should add refined sugars, such as the candi sugar I used in this recipe, after a few days of fermentation, so the yeast gets to work on the complex malt sugars, rather than getting exhausted by eating the simple sugars first and then flocculating to the bottom. Perhaps next time I'll try adding the sugars later in the fermentation process.

At this point, I'm going to take another gravity reading for the next two days to see if the gravity is still actively dropping. If not, I was considering my options, since this is never happened before... gently rock the fermenter, gently swirl the yeast cake with my racking cane, or add another batch of yeast. I'm kind of at a loss. None of those really sound like good options, haha. I'm hoping that it will just slowly finish on its own, over another couple of weeks. Does anyone perhaps have any alternate suggestions?
 
Used to boil on a crappy stove and HAD to keep the lid on with just a crack open or the wort wouldn't boil. Never any DMS. These days I don't leave the lid on but geneally do 20 minute boils to speed up my brew day. Never any DMS. Use pilsner malt too.
 
I am such an idiot....I was using a refractometer and forgot to do the conversion calculation...It's actually at 1.010. Now I'm just worried because it's still showing some activity, haha. I don't want it to overattenuate. It tastes fantastic. Perhaps I'll cold crash/keg it, to stop the fermentation.

Thank you for all of your input, everyone. I just got a refractometer as a prize in a local homebrew competition, and I forgot how to use it, haha. Sorry I'm so stupid.
 

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