Is BIGGER better?

[Grond]

Good Morning!

I have 3 different carboys and love making cider (working on my 3rd batch right now!). I have two 6.5 gallon carboys and a 5 gallon. I have only used the 6.5 gallon carboy up to this point, but the more I read the more I get concerned about "headspace" during the primary and secondary fermentations. Should I switch to the 5 gallon to eliminate the headspace or isn't it really that big of a deal with ciders? I'm still trying to feel my way through this process so any and all info is appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[Upstate12866]

If you plan on aging for many months in a carboy, it makes sense to think about oxygen exposure. In my humble experience, you are fine up to 3 months or maybe more, even with lots of headspace. I personally think this is plenty of time for a simple recipe to age.

Remember also that the exact same processes that occur when aging in carboys also occur in bottles or kegs. So my thinking for my process is that a month or two in a carboy followed by some time in bottles is safe and effective. I think a big caveat exists for specialty recipes, lots of adjuncts or fruits, etc. My recipes are pretty simple and 5-7% abv.

I think a great experiment would be a side by side to see for yourself.

You will find many people advocating for no headspace or adding glass marbles to fill up empty room. I would probably do the same if I believed I needed to age in a carboy; I find fermentation is over within that first month and then Im happy to bottle when I get around to it.

 

[IslandLizard]

You can also use corny kegs as secondaries.

 

[RolandD]

I have two 7 gallon Fermonsters for primary and two 6 gallon PET carboys for secondary and keg in 5 gallon cornies.

This allows me to Primary 6.25-6.5 gallons and have zero headspace in secondary and lipping full kegs. Anything leftover after kegging become experiments and emergency booze.

P.s. You can buy a couple of carboys for the cost of a gallon of marbles.

 

[Chalkyt]

Yep, I have tried using marbles and it takes an awful lot to eliminate headspace. Very roughly, you need twice the height of marbles to fill the height of the headspace (around 50 or 60 marbles will fill a cup but only displace about half a cupful of liquid).

I find it easier to do a short primary fermentation using a bit more cider than the secondary carboy needs then when the turbulent primary is finished, transfer this to secondary and fill up the headspace. Also, with a bit of surplus primary cider it is easy to leave the trub behind without worrying about transferring every last drop (and picking up lots of muck in the process).

 

[TheBluePhantom]

For cider I actually start in 7 gallon buckets with bandana covers, when the foam drops (~1.025) I switch to 6.5 gallon primaries. After the yeast drops and it starts clearing, about 4 weeks, I go to 5 gallon secondaries to age. the 6.5s are not full, plenty of room for foam. but I keep enough in them to leave the yeast and junk and still get a full 5.

 

[Rish]

Hi, Grond. Welcome! I'd say that if too much head space is a concern, add more juice!

 

[Grond]

Hi, Grond. Welcome! I'd say that if too much head space is a concern, add more juice!

I thought about this...but I only have 2 kegs and they are 5 gallons each. If I do more than 5 gallons, I have to commit to ALL cider or buy another keg, replumb my CO2 setup and so on.

 

[Rish]

I thought about this...but I only have 2 kegs and they are 5 gallons each. If I do more than 5 gallons, I have to commit to ALL cider or buy another keg, replumb my CO2 setup and so on.

Maybe bottle and prime the excess or store in some 2 liter soda bottles until you can get them in your keg?

 

[TheBluePhantom]

I thought about this...but I only have 2 kegs and they are 5 gallons each. If I do more than 5 gallons, I have to commit to ALL cider or buy another keg, replumb my CO2 setup and so on.

Wait! You mean you have to have a reason to buy more kegs?!? Do NOT tell my wife about this!

 

[madscientist451]

I think my ex thought Bigger was Better, but then she wanted me back, so maybe average is OK.

 

[Rick Stephens]

Two things cause O2 and bacteria problems - too much headspace and a large surface area. The Big Mouth Bubblers and Fermonsters with the big lids are not so good for long secondaries with their huge surface area. I always move to a traditional carboy for secondary, no matter how hard they are to clean

 

[CKuhns]

My wife says bigger is better ( i have compared and agree with @Rick Stephens smaller is better) and too much head-space is not good. (Thinking i might be missing something here.) I hope she is talking about my cider....( she hasnt been that interested in the past) hmmmmmm