Is Beer Guaranteed to Raft?

[IrishBrewer420]

Hello brewers. I'm seeking advice because I've experienced what may be a HUGE delay in my brew. I need to know if beer is guaranteed to produce yeast rafts in its secondary stage. I'm working on a brew now that sat in the primary for about 4 days and has been in its secondary stage for nearly three weeks. Ordinarily, at this stage I could think about bottling within the week, but I have no rafts and that concerns me.

In my last two batches in a row, the beer produced yeast rafts by the time it hit 1.5 weeks in the secondary. At first, it would look like somebody was dry-walling over my brew - I had little white particles floating on top that resembled tiny bits of plaster. Over two weeks, it slowly morphed into bubbles, at which point I knew I could bottle my beer. Once the rafts began to bubble, they would naturally float to the edge and stick to the sides of my carboy, being safely filtered out during the siphoning process.

However, the batch I'm working on right now has shown absolutely no signs of any possible rafting, so I need to know it is safe to bottle or should I wait it out? I've seen pictures on the internet of beers that have produced rafts IN the bottle, and I will wait as long as necessary to avoid this. Once rafts are on top of the beer, you can't really smell the actual beer, you mainly get that nose-stinging sensation of the gas bouncing off the top.

Any advice is greatly appreciated. It should be noted that the batch in question is the Brewer's Best Watermelon Wheat extract kit.

 

[LLBeanJ]

I've never paid attention to whether the yeast "rafts" or not. My decision on when to bottle would be based on hitting expected FG, as well a couple of same-same hydrometer readings a few days apart. Also, I never transfer beer to secondary, just package right out of primary.

 

[BNolt17]

To answer your question, if final gravity is stable over 3 days, your beer is ready to bottle. That being said, I'm not sure I understand your process. Why are you racking to secondary after 4 days? In most circumstances, the yeast are only really getting going around 2-4 days and are still in suspension, racking to secondary at that point really doesn't do anything for you. Also, if by rafts you are talking about Kraussen, that will build up while fermenting and then you will notice sediment on the bottom of the bucket/carboy. Sometimes kraussen gets stuck to the sides of the fermentor but kraussen itself is not an indicator of fermentation. What you describe as "bits of plaster" I would be concerned could possibly be an infection, but without more information I couldn't be sure.

 

[kh54s10]

4 days is really early to transfer to secondary. I don't do a secondary at all any more, but if fermentation was finished I would not expect to have anything floating in secondary. It is more accurately called a bright tank and is mostly just to get the beer off the yeast (old idea) and to let the sediment settle out of the beer.

The description of drywall dust over the surface that then starts to bubble sound bad! Like an infection is setting in.

The present beer was probably ready to bottle last week. Go by gravity readings as described by LLBeanJ

 

[IrishBrewer420]

Okay, thanks for the info. For those of you who are concerned with infections, I really don't worry about it. I consulted both the web and my LHBS and yeast rafts are normal. Besides, those batches were already bottled and consumed that they came out perfect. It was also my LHBS who told me I could safely begin secondary after only 4 days. You mention that yeast takes 2-3 days to start, but I typically have a pretty high rate of airlock activity only 14-18 hours after pitch. It continues kicking at a high rate for about 2 straight days and slows down, and I've never experienced problems with low ABV.

For those of you who don't secondary, that's fine but I just can't do that. I'm very picky and like to give my beer time to mature to a higher quality. "New" beer I notice has a significantly increased hop bitterness and increased sediment in the bottle. Not my cup of tea, or should I say not my mug of beer.

Nonetheless, based on your responses it sounds like I could think about bottling it soon, so thanks for the reassurance!

 

[bajaedition]

I wait a week to rack into secondary

I believe in it fully, beer comes out cleaner, many will debate that but I stand by it.

my current beer is still working a bit 11 days in, it was a heavy adjunct specialty beer style. I had a bit of a krausen but not much at all

I will leave beer in secondary for 2 weeks, and then filter it down to 1 micron, put in a cold closet to age a few weeks.

The reason you are getting a krausen in your secondary is the beer was not finished with primary fermentation. But it is not a problem. next time wait a week.

 

[kh54s10]

The racking to secondary before fermentation is finished is old thinking. Current practice is to wait until your fermentation is done, then do a secondary. Or increasingly common is not to do a secondary at all.

If you are convinced that a secondary improves the beer, continue.

Low ABV doesn't have anything to do with whether or not you do a secondary. That is determined by your OG and your FG. It should not change at all.

I have done some secondaries and found the difference to be indistinguishable. Whether you do a secondary or not should have no difference in hop bitterness, that is done in the boil.

If you processes are good you should have little to no difference in the amount of sediment in your bottles. My primary only bottles get only a slight layer of yeast on the bottom. Waiting for the beer to clear is key here. It can clear in primary, then there is little sediment to fall when in the bottles.

What temperature are you fermenting? 2 days seems like minimum time to me. Warm and fast is not a good thing. I have had many that start in 4-12 hours and fermented strongly for 4-6 days before slowing down.

Go by gravity, not by how much bubbling is happening.

So, IMO, doing a secondary improves the beer very little to nothing and increases the risk of infection or oxidation. Not worth the effort. YMMV.

 

[bajaedition]

The racking to secondary before fermentation is finished is old thinking. Current practice is to wait until your fermentation is done, then do a secondary. Or increasingly common is not to do a secondary at all.

If you are convinced that a secondary improves the beer, continue.

yes it is old thinking, and I am old, been brewing since 1984

I have a few lines of thought on this,

I clean my workshop floor when finishing a project, why not clean the beer off the lees once the krausen drops

I do not worry about having a lot of off flavors in my beers so why change a method that has worked very good for me

I have apprenticed at a local brew club for 6 months just to get the experience, the pull the yeast after it drops out so it does not effect the beer, If they do it, I should

Part of the reason guys want conical fermentors is so they can easily draw off the spent yeast.

I stand by the practice, I do understand why the trend is not to however, most homebrewers do ales, the beer is finished at 3 weeks. Probably no reason to draw it off, plus you risk an infection anytime you process your beer. So for those reasons why not let it sit.

the debate will go on for a long time, one of the draws to not rack is it is just one more step you do not have to do.

Now I need to get out the popcorn and sit back and be amused as everyone tells me how stupid I am for doing something they do not, and at the end of the day I will look at the wall of old faded ribbons I have and just be amused.

 

[kh54s10]

yes it is old thinking, and I am old, been brewing since 1984

I did say if it works for you...

I have a few lines of thought on this,

I clean my workshop floor when finishing a project, why not clean the beer off the lees once the krausen drops

My question is why bother?

I do not worry about having a lot of off flavors in my beers so why change a method that has worked very good for me

Again, whatever works for you.

I have apprenticed at a local brew club for 6 months just to get the experience, the pull the yeast after it drops out so it does not effect the beer, If they do it, I should

Just because they do that... Didn't your mother ever ask you if all your friends jumped off a bridge???

Part of the reason guys want conical fermentors is so they can easily draw off the spent yeast.

One of the main reasons, these days, for pulling the yeast out of a conical is for re-use.

I stand by the practice, I do understand why the trend is not to however, most homebrewers do ales, the beer is finished at 3 weeks. Probably no reason to draw it off, plus you risk an infection anytime you process your beer. So for those reasons why not let it sit.

This statement makes a good argument for NOT doing a secondary.

the debate will go on for a long time, one of the draws to not rack is it is just one more step you do not have to do.

Now I need to get out the popcorn and sit back and be amused as everyone tells me how stupid I am for doing something they do not, and at the end of the day I will look at the wall of old faded ribbons I have and just be amused.

I haven't entered any contests so no personal comparisons, but I would bet there are plenty of people with faded ribbons who don't do a secondary.

I never said anything about being stupid. Just that it is unnecessary. You can also brew beer in a trough and stir it with your magic yeast stick....

My main point is transferring at 4 days. I have had plenty of fermentations that were just getting to peak at 4 days..

Again whatever works for you.

 

[bajaedition]

Kh. It works for you

I can dig that

4 days is short for an ale

And if a professional brewer does something, take notice. They are all about profit. Extra unneeded steps money. I did not spend six months of my free time scrubbing and cleaning brew equipment to have fun. It was to learn everything I could

Everyone I know with a conical removes the Lee's when he harvest yeast. They do not just take a sample and leave the rest.

 

[IrishBrewer420]

Oh no, in seeking advice I fear I have stirred up a heated debate. And this isn't even the politics section. Look, the ONLY beer I have ever brewed is from Brewer's Best extract kits. I follow the instructions to the letter and they say to utilize a secondary, so I did. I have never attempted to cut it out of the process, but I might give it a shot with one of these batches to see for myself how it works.

I also make wine, so it actually would be nice to have two free secondaries instead of one tied up in beer. I will do some further reading on the subject, but will experiment and decide for myself. I should mention I don't have one of those fancy fast-fermenters, it's a standard primary with a lid. I don't know if that matters.

It seems like the only problem here is that I siphoned it out of the primary too soon, which doesn't seem to have caused any real problems. I appreciate all your feedback as it has reassured me that my batch is fine and ready to be bottled. :rockin:

 

[bajaedition]

no heated debate

you are on a learning curve, you siphoned and now find out that the beer is not finished, good thing is it is not ruined.

For an Ale, I wait a week to get it off the lees, then continue about 2 weeks till I rack again into a keg and then "Laager" it, basically that means store at cold temp, till I have room on the taper to set it up

You really have not done anything wrong as the beer will finish.

This is a great hobby, go ahead and finish the beer, drink it and next time do not rack it off so soon. Experience is the key here. You will have that soon enough

 

[FatDragon]

My two cents are nothing really new, just reiteration of what's already been said.

Many homebrewers consider secondary unnecessary since it's extra work and another vector for oxidation and potential infection. Try going without it on a batch and see how it works for you. That doesn't mean cutting out all the time you would have the beer in secondary, just keep it in the primary fermenter for that time.

Day four is generally too early for secondary. If you're getting krausen and yeast rafts in your secondary, your beer is still fermenting. The point of secondary is to get the beer off of the yeast for clarity and to avoid (largely mythical in the homebrew world) autolysis, so you might as well wait a few more days for fermentation to really finish if you're going to rack to secondary.

@bajaedition - re: ejecting the yeast from a conical - pro brewers are making much bigger batches and usually fermenting at pressure, which both increase the risk of autolysis, and ejecting the yeast still doesn't equal racking to a secondary. Yes, some breweries still use brite tanks which are secondary conditioning vessels, but many eject the yeast and then let the beer condition in the primary fermenter while avoiding the trouble, (slight at their level) infection and oxidation risk, and equipment expense of using brite tanks.

That said, I'll bet your beer is a lot clearer than mine. For people who value that (I don't care so much even though I admire a nice clear beer), kettle finings, minimizing trub into the fermenter, secondary, cold crashing, gelatin, and even filtering are all good ways to advance that cause. If you enjoy your process and the results, then you're doing it right.

 

[IrishBrewer420]

UPDATE: Bottled the beer in question. Obviously it needs to carbonate but it proved palatable even at bottling. Batch is clear and free of rafts and sediment. Thanks for all the feedback and for informing me that I can cut out the secondary stage. I just might be experimenting with that very soon, the consensus seems to be that it will still be okay. I'll consult my LHBS and take it from there. It's just the thought of NOT putting my beer through a secondary was just so foreign to me.

Next on my list is Cherry Bomb Mead; haven't decided on my next beer yet. Probably will go with something rich and dark - my last two batches were lighter and sweeter.

QUESTION: Assuming one does secondary their beer, is it customary to allow it to mature with oak cubes inside? Or is that unconventional in beer? Has anyone experimented with this? Discuss.

 

[FatDragon]

Oak cubes are a great way to add complex oak flavor to a beer. Some styles take oak flavor better than others, typically darker, stronger, richer beers but there may be exceptions. Note that oak is easy to overdo in a lot of beers so you might be waiting several months for the oak flavors to condition if you oak a beer.

As for whether is customary, most brewers only oak special beers if anything. It's not particularly common, but it can bring an excellent new dimension to certain beers.

 

[IrishBrewer420]

Oak cubes are a great way to add complex oak flavor to a beer. Some styles take oak flavor better than others, typically darker, stronger, richer beers but there may be exceptions. Note that oak is easy to overdo in a lot of beers so you might be waiting several months for the oak flavors to condition if you oak a beer.

As for whether is customary, most brewers only oak special beers if anything. It's not particularly common, but it can bring an excellent new dimension to certain beers.

Thanks for your reply. I would like to experiment with oaked beer sometime in the future. I prefer the rich, dark beers they would best pair with, so I think it would be fun. If it does end up taking several months I think it's worth it have an improved product in the end. Thanks again!

 

[FiddleTilDeath]

For those of you who don't secondary, that's fine but I just can't do that. I'm very picky and like to give my beer time to mature to a higher quality.

That doesn't mean cutting out all the time you would have the beer in secondary, just keep it in the primary fermenter for that time.

this ^^^

I let my beer hang out in the primary for months and the yeast gets plenty of time to clean up after themselves, the beer has time to mature, I have time to be patient, and with no ill effects of the beer sitting on the yeast.