Is AG reaally worth it?

[ChimayLover]

So, I've made 4 extract batches so far. While they are far from undrinkable, they have all just been "ehhh". I'm thinking i just dont like the taste of extract beer. I use DME, pay close attention to sanitation, close attention to hop schedules, do not drink the beer until about 4 weeks in the bottle, and i brew with spring water and boil for 45-60 min. All of my extract beers have a noticeable "twang" aftertaste and while they taste like strong beer, they are not the type of beer I would usually want to buy a case of. Not very balanced, the flavor is kind of stale, there is a twang, etc... I would much rather have a Sam Adams or Harpoon. Anyway, how much of a difference is there in the taste of all grain beer? I want to make the switch if it is worth it, but if it tastes like extract brew then probably not. Is the quality of all grain compared to extract worth making the switch? Any tips to improve the taste in extract? I've never tried any extract beers other than my own, so maybe im just missing something...

 

[kenb]

Yes, do it and you will never go back. I had the extract twang as well, and it vanished on my first AG batch....

 

[Iordz]

I can't comment on the quality of extract brews because I only did one and moved to AG, but I know there are extract brewers who win competitions and awards and make good beer. Brewing is all about freshness and quality ingredients, this is especially true with extract brewing. All grain, for me, is worth all the work and effort. I make the beer exactly the way I want to make it, there are no limitations! Not to mention the amazing, fresh flavor, it's kind of like home squeezed orange juice.

 

[EdWort]

Yes, do it and you will never go back. I had the extract twang as well, and it vanished on my first AG batch....

+1 It changed my life! (as he sips on his all grain Bavarian Hefe with a wonderful banana clove nose on it)

 

[mrk305]

I have switched to partial mash recently and there is a big difference in taste. So much so that I will be going all grain soon. Just need a couple more things like a cooler for mashing and a wort chiller. It is lots cheaper, too. I have been using around 6.5 pounds of grains and steeping in the oven in a large SS pot for 90 minutes at 152 and then adding extract to acheive gravity. I got a turkey fryer last weekend and a big monster used cajun style propane cook stove. Bye bye twang.... Try partial mashing. You can definatly taste the difference. Same equipment you already have, just different techniques. Then I bet you will want to go all grain like I am and so may others.

 

[Funkenjaeger]

I too have heard tales of extract brewers brewing award-winning beers. But frankly, I don't know what their secrets are, because even after doing quite a number of extract batches and getting quite a bit of experience, my beers were still mediocre. The day I did my first AG batch I was instantly hooked, and I haven't touched extract since then except to make yeast starters. Even though I was doing AG for the first time, my beer came out better than any of my extract beers ever did - and have continued to do so. AG may be more work during the brewing process, but it seems to be easier to produce really good beer with it, in my experience.

 

[Iordz]

I think you can make good beer with extract but all grain brewing is like the holyland. It is the last step you take and you can't turn back once you've started, not that you'd want to. I remember my first batch (extract) being mediocre, at best, my second (AG) being terrible (long story short, got an infection), but my third (AG) was amazing!

 

[Moonpile]

In my first round of brewing some 15 to 10 years ago, I never totally got rid of the extract twang. I restarted this spring and right off the bat I felt like I was doing better and by using more DME and less LME and by doing late additions I felt like we essentially got rid of it.

Then we did a partial mash which was just heads and shoulders above what we had done. We're now going AG for all the various reasons: more control especially over lighter colored worts, less expensive batches, simple interest, etc.

That said I know that we could continue to make extract batches that we're well pleased with, and we've all said that if we're having trouble fitting an AG session into our weekend schedules we'll try to schedule an extract + grains session, since we can generally do that on a weeknight.

 

[Sherpa FE]

+1 It changed my life! (as he sips on his all grain Bavarian Hefe with a wonderful banana clove nose on it)

Ed,
I sure wish you lived near me, so I could learn to brew Hefe with you. Seems we both have the same taste for German beers. When I get off this deployment, I am going to have to hit you up for some recipe's.
Josh

 

[BrewBrain]

I wish I could have done a mediocre extract beer. Mine were all throw aways. I tried to choke them down, but they ended up down the drain. Some people apparently can do it. They are far better than I.

I decided to try an all grain just to see if it would make a difference. On the first one I had horrible efficiency and missed gravity horribly, got a stuck mash and had to siphon the beer into the boil pot, forgot to add gypsum to the mash, dropped my strainer in my beer and God knows what else. The beer was awesome!. :rockin:

I also find the all grain process more satisfying, quality aside. I feel more like I created something vs. cooking something if that makes sense.

 

[malkore]

extract twang or not...going all grain is going to give you absolute control over the brew.

for me, that alone made it worth it.
I do think my AG beers are better than my extracts, though I only have 3 under my belt so far. but my one and only PM was better than the extracts I made too.

 

[McCall St. Brewer]

Yes, it's worth it. Also, very, VERY worth it is kegging instead of bottling.

But, back to extract vs. AG. I made some extract brews that I was very happy with. Not only that, but all my extract brews were very drinkable. I never had to dump any of it.

I learned two important things, though, just as I was switching to AG.

First, adding your extract later in the boil really helps. You get much better hop utilization that way, and it also helps the flavor not to boil the extract for as long.

Second, doing a full boil and using a wort chiller instead of an ice bath really makes a difference in your flavor.

Still, going AG has been well, well worth it. I really like the results I have gotten. IMHO I can make much better beer using all grain.

 

[McCall St. Brewer]

I would have to say that going all grain has been well worth it. I think that I have been able to make much better beer that way.

Still, all my extract brews were drinkable and some of them were, IMHO, downright good.

With all due respect to those who posted on this thread saying that their extract batches were no good, I wonder if you have been doing something wrong? There is no reason why a properly made extract batch should not be good if you use good ingredients, practice good sanitation techniques and follow a decent recipe.

Bottom line for me, though, is that my all grain brews seem to be better than my extract brews were.

 

[thndrdad]

I'm just getting into all grain brewing, but if you haven't made an extract brew that wasn't a thousand times better than mass produced beer than I would keep trying.
After all your really just making your own extract with AG.

 

[Bobby_M]

In my opinion, there are several factors that make an all grain batch better that are on the fringe and not directly associated with where the fermentables come from. I think the more of these activities you do with extract, the closer you get to the quality of all grain.

1. Full Boils (hop utilization and less carmalization).
2. Fast Chilling (better clarity/cold break, lock in hop aroma).
3. More practice. (it's likely that your technique is maturing about this time).

 

[abracadabra]

I can't really speak to the extract brewing as I've never done it. My first attempt was an All Grain disaster. But still the beer came out OK in my opinion and others said they thought it was great!

I too like Sam Adams but I like the Winter Lager, Black Lager, Brown Ale, Old Feziwig, Holiday Porter and Octoberfest. I'm not much of a hop head so I can take or leave regular Sam Adams Lager.

But as I brewed more AG's and made fewer and fewer mistakes the beer has really improved to the point where I now think it's great and my family and friends rave about it.

Is it worth it? All that time and money, on a strickly economic basis I'd say probably not. I figure I'll break even sometime around 2085 give or take a decade.

Is it worth it? The satisfaction of an excellent fresh beer enjoyed with family and friends at the peak of it's flavor, as a hobby that you enjoy doing, the pride of learning and mastering a new skill. That's a question you'll probably have to answer for yourself.

 

[craiger_ny]

Once you go all grain you will never go back. The flavor is outstanding but just as important is the level of control over fermentables vs non-fermentables. The mashing (starch conversion) process also opens all kinds of doors in regards to adjuncts available to you.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

I'll chime in with another vote for 'once you go AG you will never go back'.

The investment required is fairly minimal, and the process of brewing is much more enjoyable. There's almost always something to do when you're doing AG as opposed to extract where you essnetially do your boil and you're done.

The quality and taste of the beer you produce is the main reason to make the move. I made the jump about 20 batches ago and my beers taste much better.

 

[PseudoChef]

For me, it's not all about the end-product. Yes, I do like control, I like a less carmelized beer, and I do believe in extract twang.

For me, most of it lies in the fun and chemistry behind the mash. If I were to have an extract brew day now, I'd be bored out of my mind, and not having any fun; it wouldn't accomplish anything for me. AG is challenging while extract isn't, IMO. I need to beat that challenge in order to feel a true sense of accomplishment.

I get all giddy thinking about my brew day, how I'm going to use this base grain in this recipe, while substituting this other grain, etc.

 

[TexLaw]

If you can get quality extract (i.e., not stale), like to brew British styles, and don't want to spend more than three or four hours in a brewing day (from setup through cleanup), then extract brewing is perfect for you.

If you can't get quality extracts, then AG definitely is the way to go. If you want to brew something other than British styles, then AG is the way to go. Your only price is some gear, some time, and more chances to mess something up.


TL

 

[McCall St. Brewer]

In my opinion, there are several factors that make an all grain batch better that are on the fringe and not directly associated with where the fermentables come from. I think the more of these activities you do with extract, the closer you get to the quality of all grain.

1. Full Boils (hop utilization and less carmalization).
2. Fast Chilling (better clarity/cold break, lock in hop aroma).
3. More practice. (it's likely that your technique is maturing about this time).

Excellent point! Just before I made my first AG brews, I did a couple of full boil extract batches. It really made a difference to get better hop utilization and to do a fast chill. Going AG has continued to improve things.

 

[BierMuncher]

...My first attempt was an All Grain disaster...

I bet I know what was missing from your process.

Extract brewing is good.
Ragu pasta sauce from a jar is also "good".

But all-grain...that's like grandma's home made maranara sauce using tomatoes she grew in her garden...

Can't compare the two.

It's also unlikely that you'll get an extract beer to ever look like this:

 

[olllllo]

If you can get quality extract (i.e., not stale), like to brew British styles, and don't want to spend more than three or four hours in a brewing day (from setup through cleanup), then extract brewing is perfect for you.

If you can't get quality extracts, then AG definitely is the way to go. If you want to brew something other than British styles, then AG is the way to go. Your only price is some gear, some time, and more chances to mess something up.


TL

+1 on that point.
If you are getting bad extract, consider that you may also get bad grain, hops and advice from whereever it is that you are getting supplied.

There's a skill set involved in scaling up and going all grain that will make you a better brewer no matter what process (extract or all-grain) you use from that point forward. Some of my best extract beers were made during the crossing over point.

 

[olllllo]

It's also unlikely that you'll get an extract beer to ever look like this:

View attachment 3251

You're giving HB_99 a reason to bump up his post count, aren't you.

 

[IowaStateFan]

You're giving HB_99 a reason to bump up his post count, aren't you.

I was thinking the same thing. He's posted some pics of some mighty fine looking beers made with extract.

 

[abracadabra]

I bet I know what was missing from your process.

Extract brewing is good.
Ragu pasta sauce from a jar is also "good".

But all-grain...that's like grandma's home made maranara sauce using tomatoes she grew in her garden...

Can't compare the two.

It's also unlikely that you'll get an extract beer to ever look like this:

View attachment 3251

How much would you like to bet ?

How much could you afford to lose?

 

[olllllo]

How much would you like to bet ?

How much could you afford to lose?

I'm hoping that this is an amicable rivalry.

 

[Beerthoven]

SWMBO misses the smell of boiling wort in the house. Maybe this winter we'll do up an extract brew for fun.

Now that I've done AG, I wonder how an extract brew would taste to me.

 

[BierMuncher]

I'm hoping that this is an amicable rivalry.

I'm showing my winkie...

 

[ChimayLover]

Well, i think youve convinced me to go all grain! Thanks for the great insights!!!

MIke

 

[BangorBrewer]

It seems to be like there is a certain elitism about brewing all-grain. I wouldn't really know what AG beer tastes like, but the extract brews I have been making over the last year-and-a-half have been spectacular. There is no doubt in my mind that brewing AG puts you in the driver seat, but I think sometimes not enough credit goes out to those of us who can only afford--for a number of reasons--to brew with extract. I know I often get some of the freshest extract going, either from listermann's or elsewhere--and my brews taste fresh, rarely have any sort of twang and are well-regarded by those who try them. I, however, would be remiss if I didn't mention the envy I have for those of you who can brew AG. I really think you guys are artists in a lot of different ways, from the way you set up your breweries to the recipes you concoct.

Just my two cents, but I often feel marginalized for being an extract brewer.

 

[bradsul]

...but I often feel marginalized for being an extract brewer.

It would never be the intention of anyone on HBT to make you feel that way. This is absolutely the friendliest forum on the internet I've ever been on. AG brewing just has a way of getting under your skin and you can't help but talk about nothing else.

For me extract brewing was actually too expensive, a batch was costing me about $50CDN compared to about $25CDN for my AG batches. Both of those can be reduced by about $8 if I use a dry yeast. But for me my goal was always AG brewing anyway.

 

[abracadabra]

It seems to be like there is a certain elitism about brewing all-grain. I wouldn't really know what AG beer tastes like, but the extract brews I have been making over the last year-and-a-half have been spectacular. There is no doubt in my mind that brewing AG puts you in the driver seat, but I think sometimes not enough credit goes out to those of us who can only afford--for a number of reasons--to brew with extract. I know I often get some of the freshest extract going, either from listermann's or elsewhere--and my brews taste fresh, rarely have any sort of twang and are well-regarded by those who try them. I, however, would be remiss if I didn't mention the envy I have for those of you who can brew AG. I really think you guys are artists in a lot of different ways, from the way you set up your breweries to the recipes you concoct.

Just my two cents, but I often feel marginalized for being an extract brewer.

You are giving us way too much credit. It's really not that big a deal. But you can make it a BFD if you'd like. And you're right on the money about certain individuals being EAC's. But the vast majortiy are really nice helpful people you'd be proud to call your friends.

 

[PseudoChef]

It seems to be like there is a certain elitism about brewing all-grain. I wouldn't really know what AG beer tastes like, but the extract brews I have been making over the last year-and-a-half have been spectacular. There is no doubt in my mind that brewing AG puts you in the driver seat, but I think sometimes not enough credit goes out to those of us who can only afford--for a number of reasons--to brew with extract. I know I often get some of the freshest extract going, either from listermann's or elsewhere--and my brews taste fresh, rarely have any sort of twang and are well-regarded by those who try them. I, however, would be remiss if I didn't mention the envy I have for those of you who can brew AG. I really think you guys are artists in a lot of different ways, from the way you set up your breweries to the recipes you concoct.

Just my two cents, but I often feel marginalized for being an extract brewer.

Can I ask what the reasons are you cannot go AG? Grain is cheaper than extract, which pays for the equipment costs within a handful of brew sessions. You mention other reasons which may hold you back, which is fine. Perhaps we here at HBT could help you find alternatives if you have the desire to go AG.

I'm sure your beers are great, my extract Nut Brown I did is still one of my favourites. The friend who got me into homebrewing won an AHA-regional contest with an extract-only RIS.

Either way, keep doing what makes you happy!!

 

[BangorBrewer]

I wouldn't say it is impossible for me to go AG, but I think it would be irresponsible and ill-advised on a couple of levels.

For one thing, I live in a pretty small apartment with really no room to set up the needed equipment. I would really enjoy trying some sort of mini/parial-mash, just to see if I enjoy the process as much as I think I will.

For another thing, I am a college student with a very minimal income. But, I must admit that I have a leg up on the AG process. I have a good-sized brew pot, a really nice propane burner and a real willingness to learn.

I very much like the idea of being able to brew for less money. Right now, it costs me about 3.50-4.50/lb for DME. If I make anything resembling a big beer it's gonna cost me.

I guess I was just trying to offer a different perspective on the homebrewing experience. For me, at least right now, it only really makes sense for me to "just
cook up the wort."

By no means was I trying to imply that these people on here have been anything short of great; they've been the single greatest resource I could have ever asked for. I think often times elitism is taken with a very negative connotation and I think that's undue. I don't really want to get into a discussion about language, but I guess it was ill-advised to lead off with such a contentious word. Sometimes people call be an elitist for being a golfer and bibliophile; do I take offense? Sometimes. But most of the time, I know what they mean.

Regardless, some day I will make my way into the realm of AG brewing, but for right now I'm trying to be as creative and as diligent as possible with my extracts.

But, to you home brewers of the world, I post this question: what do you think should come first, upgrading to AG or getting myself a keg system?

 

[Iordz]

But, to you home brewers of the world, I post this question: what do you think should come first, upgrading to AG or getting myself a keg system?

I went with AG. It was more important for me to make good beer than to keg mediocre beer, plus it was cheaper, however everyone is different. Only recently I managed to put a kegging system together. I understand the part about living in a small apartment, I do too. This is why I brew at my buddy’s house. Gives me a chance to brew and hang out with him.

 

[Hopleaf]

I went All-Grain and I'm very happy I did...it feels more "real" to me. Though I've yet to make an all-grain which is better than my best extract beers (imho). But I'm expecting my all-grain beers to blow away my extracts once I get my technique down.

I did extracts solidly for a year.. always with steeped grains and used the fresher bulk extract from the homebrew store rather than the cans and I think most turned out well.

 

[bradsul]

...But, to you home brewers of the world, I post this question: what do you think should come first, upgrading to AG or getting myself a keg system?

I had the same decision to make and I decided that going AG was the best option for me. I never did (nor do I still) have a problem with bottling whereas a lot of people seem to loath it - obviously if you fall into the latter camp I'd go for kegging.

Also if you already have a full size brew pot and propane burner all you really need is a cheap cooler and a wort chiller and you're ready to AG. The minimal cost of those two items would be paid for within a few batches with the cost difference over extract brewing. Oh and I'm an apartment dweller myself so believe me I know your pains in that regard.

 

[kobis.1]

I've just started to drink my first all-grain homebrew(I've done it three times but had some bad gusher batches) and its awesome. It has a better mouthfeel and maltyness than any of my extract beers and its only a 6lb recipe.(oh yeah, first post btw!)

 

[bradsul]

I've just started to drink my first all-grain homebrew(I've done it three times but had some bad gusher batches) and its awesome. It has a better mouthfeel and maltyness than any of my extract beers and its only a 6lb recipe.(oh yeah, first post btw!)

Sorry to hear about the gushers, I had one of those a while back. Waste of good beer.

Welcome to HBT!