william_shakes_beer
Well-Known Member
I presently use a hydrometer to measure OG and FG. Am beginning to move into PM/AG and am wondering if most people hyere still use a hydrometer or move to a refractometer to measure SG?
Is a refractometer worth the money?
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Lucky_Chicken
Well-Known Member
refractometer is deffinatly worth the money, I use it for everything and calculate the fg numbers from the reading. As far as the OG numbers they are much easier to read and I think they are more accurate. The only down side is I dont have an excuse to taste the sample durring transfers.
For the 50 bucks my refractometer cost me, I love the convenience over the hydrometer it provides. Samples are easy to get and all you need is a few drops vs. filling an entire test vessel with beer that you'll have to drink or throw out. Most refractometers automatically temperature correct, and since you need so little for a sample you can take lots of readings without drastically cutting down on your beer. Downsides are converting between Brix and gravity, and knowing that you have to convert your final refractometer gravity readings to account for alcohol.
yes it is, i use refractometer during entire brewing process and i check progress of fermentation regularly, at botteling day i use both hydro and refractometer but right now mainly use hydro to drink test sample 
as the numbers are always the same after calculation
as the numbers are always the same after calculation
Calichusetts
Well-Known Member
Yes, they are worth it...make sure it has an ATC
yes it is, i use refractometer during entire brewing process and i check progress of fermentation regularly, at botteling day i use both hydro and refractometer but right now mainly use hydro to drink test sample
+1
Except that I have not gotten accurate correction with the calculators. My last FG taken calculated out to 1.012 so I was confident it was done. The hydrometer read 1.009.
I just bought this one for $25.46 shipped
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300614108662
my LHBS charges 60usd for them, this one takes about 3 weeks to be shipped from, well here is the whole shipping tracking; it is in town, I live in Iowa
.......................................................................
Arrival at Unit
2012-03-16, 05:24:00, URBANDALE, IA 50322
Processed Through Sort Facility
2012-03-11, 14:03:00, ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS)
Origin Post is Preparing Shipment
Processed Through Sort Facility
2012-03-07, 14:30:00, SINGAPORE
..................
so it took 13 days to get it to me.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300614108662
my LHBS charges 60usd for them, this one takes about 3 weeks to be shipped from, well here is the whole shipping tracking; it is in town, I live in Iowa
.......................................................................
Arrival at Unit
2012-03-16, 05:24:00, URBANDALE, IA 50322
Processed Through Sort Facility
2012-03-11, 14:03:00, ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS)
Origin Post is Preparing Shipment
Processed Through Sort Facility
2012-03-07, 14:30:00, SINGAPORE
..................
so it took 13 days to get it to me.
Brickwalker
Active Member
Got mine on ebay for less than $30. Its accurate and worth every penny.
I got a refractometer on ebay for 30 bucks including shipping, and it is definitely worth it. I never think twice about checking gravity on brew day because it is so convenient, and the many checks help me understand my home brewery and where I can improve my efficiency. When I studied brewing in college many years ago, we had a water cooled refractometer for checking when to stop our sparge, and for our O.G. When you're making 5 or 10 gallons at a time, it just makes sense. A hydrometer can be more accurate with a skilled user, and if it has a narrow range, but a refractometer can't be beat for a quick, easy test with a very small sample.
I don't mean to derail the thread much but it's a common misconception that ATC is ableto correct for any temp of the sample. This is not 100% true. While the sample size is small enough that the prism will pull a lot of heat away, the ATC actually will only adjust for a range of ambient (and therefore refractometer body) temps. The sample has to cool down to ambient pretty quickly and then that temp needs to be in the ATC range for accuracy.
The easiest way to make sure you're not skewing measurement is to briefly shake the bulb of your sampling pippette in a cup of cold water for 10 seconds. You can take the shortcut and drop the hot sample on when monitoring runoff gravities but if you want a precise preboil collection or post boil gravity, it's best to get that sample down to the 70-100F area first. This accuracy is most important when attempting to use alcohol-presence compensation tools later on.
The easiest way to make sure you're not skewing measurement is to briefly shake the bulb of your sampling pippette in a cup of cold water for 10 seconds. You can take the shortcut and drop the hot sample on when monitoring runoff gravities but if you want a precise preboil collection or post boil gravity, it's best to get that sample down to the 70-100F area first. This accuracy is most important when attempting to use alcohol-presence compensation tools later on.
TyTanium
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Another thing to lookout for: A mass-producer in China got the Brix > SG conversion wrong for the dual-scale refracts, so the SG scale is incorrect on a lot of the cheap Chinese models.
20 Brix is roughly 1.084 SG...the incorrect models show 20 Brix is <1.080 SG.
Caveat emptor
20 Brix is roughly 1.084 SG...the incorrect models show 20 Brix is <1.080 SG.
Caveat emptor
Schnitzengiggle
Well-Known Member
I have asked myself the same question. Recently my hydrometer broke in the sample tube while taking an SG measurement. I purchased another, and upon calibration I found the new one reads 3 points high, so now I have to subtract 3 points from every measurement, IMO that's too much trouble. I think I am going to spring for one of these Digital Refractometers, unless someone else has a better product in mind that is a lower price.
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I love my refractometer. you cant beat the convenience of using one. when i first got mine i checked the accuracy by testing side by side with my hydrometer (which is 5 points to high) my refractometer reads perfect!! i love using it
william_shakes_beer
Well-Known Member
I am interested because I am beginning to move from extract to PM/AG and would like to be able to dial in my brewhouse effeciency. Cooling a sample for the hydrometer really slows down the process. Also helps me know where my mash is. Does anyone use it to determine when the mash is complete? I'm just thinkin out loud here. Also, which brands are the "cheap chinese" models to avoid? which models are best? I learned my lesson buying a taylor oven thermometer that was off 11 degrees. Bought the identical functioning unit AT THE EXACT CAME PRICE from thermoworks that was dead nuts on accurate with my temp controller sensor.
I am very tempted to get the benchtop digital but I put that into the same category as the thermapen for temp. It's just outside the price I'm willing to pay for what it does. If you think the same way, the refractometers I sell are a fine value for what they do and you could replace it twice and still be ahead of the digital refractometer.
TyTanium
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The SG scale is wrong, the Brix scale is correct (assuming calibration)
Bobby - is the Brix/Gravity scale correct on yours? Good price.
Schnitzengiggle
Well-Known Member
FWIW, I purchased the ThermaPen and have not looked back
However, I do appreciate vendors such as yourself that provide quality products at a reasonable price fro us homebrewers. Keep up the good work Bobby!
I just broke my third glass hydrometer so I'm done with those. I've looked on eBay and there are many refractometers from different sellers at different prices that all look exactly alike to me.
What's the one to get that has correct brix <-> SG conversion?
What's the one to get that has correct brix <-> SG conversion?
TyTanium
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I've not found any in the $30 range. I think there's one ~$60 that is correct. Just look at the pictures - make sure 20 Brix matches 1.084 OG (the wrong ones show 20 Brix as <1.080 SG)
I love mine. It's paid for itself many times over as I don't have to replace broken hydrometers any more. The tiny sample size also leaves me with more finished beer to drink. When i started using it, I checked the OG with both an hydrometer and the refractometer. With the correct conversions, they both came out the same. I no longer use the hydrometer for OG measurements. I didn't have much luck with the FG readings (using the Promash calculator), so I bought myself a finishing hydrometer. However, I tried the refractometer for the FG a few months ago, and to my surprise, it agreed with the hydrometer. I repeated the experiment several times with different brews, and each time got accurate results. I can't explain why I got inaccurate results when I first did it.
-a.
-a.
william_shakes_beer
Well-Known Member
The manufacturer that seems most prevalent online and (by the pictures) at my LHBW is sainstore. Any feedback on it? I'm thinking ATC, dual scale.
Y'know...it just occurred to me that trying to save 15 bucks when I can order from someone who supports this site is a cheapness that's not particularly becoming. Order placed with Bobby_M and brewhardware.com.
I found my refractometer on Craigslist for $25. I don't have a manufacturer number or anything, but by looking at pictures I think it's a model that originally cost like $70. Plus it has "Made In Japan" stamped on it, which is always a good thing IMO.
TyTanium said:
Yes, 20 brix is 1.084 or therabouts.
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And don't forget to not let the unit sit out in the sun or cold, either. It needs to be around room temp for ATC to function.
Funny, both Beersmith and Promash show 20 Brix = 1.080 for unfermented wort, but some of the on-line calculators show closer to 1.084.
If you check out https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Refractometer you will find that 20 brix = 1.078
I wonder which is right?
I'm not going to find out because I don't like beers with that high OG, but I'd be interested to know.
-a.
Special Hops
Well-Known Member
Just ordered one from eBay for 25 bucks after I broke my third hydro in a year. I'm done with those things. They are nice and reliable but just too damn fragile.
It's got the wrong scale but I use software anyways that will convert to SG for me.
It's got the wrong scale but I use software anyways that will convert to SG for me.
Lucky_Chicken
Well-Known Member
me too!!!
Tantalus
Well-Known Member
Having broken two hydrometers having only recently started brewing I can say that one of these might be a good investment.
marquette048
Well-Known Member
Strange it is....FWIW... in unfermented wort:
Beer Tools Pro (v. 1.5.21) 20 Brix= 1.080 SG
Beer Smith 2 (v. 2.0.57) 20 Brix= 1.081 SG
Brew Mate (v. 1.22) 20 Brix= 1.083 SG
I assume we are doing the BS2 conversions the same. I wonder why the difference?
My guess is that the variations are caused by the Brix Correction factor used to account for the difference between a pure sucrose solution and wort (which contains mostly maltose).
If the correction is specified as 1.000, then 20 Brix would translate to 1.083 or 1.084.
If it is set to 1.04, then 20 Brix would translate to 1.080.
If it is set 1.02, then 20 Brix would translate to about 1.081 or 1.082.
In my case, I have it set to 1.04 which works well for the beers that I usually brew, but may not work for all brews.
Obviously Promash and Beersmith use slightly different algorithms, but they agree within one point.
As for TyTaniums comment that 20 Brix should convert to approximately 1.084, that would only be true if the wort contained only sucrose, but beer wort contains mostly maltose. I think that conversion should be good for wines and ciders, but not beers.
You cannot have a Brix to SG conversion that is going to work correctly for both wines and beers.
-a.
If the correction is specified as 1.000, then 20 Brix would translate to 1.083 or 1.084.
If it is set to 1.04, then 20 Brix would translate to 1.080.
If it is set 1.02, then 20 Brix would translate to about 1.081 or 1.082.
In my case, I have it set to 1.04 which works well for the beers that I usually brew, but may not work for all brews.
Obviously Promash and Beersmith use slightly different algorithms, but they agree within one point.
As for TyTaniums comment that 20 Brix should convert to approximately 1.084, that would only be true if the wort contained only sucrose, but beer wort contains mostly maltose. I think that conversion should be good for wines and ciders, but not beers.
You cannot have a Brix to SG conversion that is going to work correctly for both wines and beers.
-a.
marquette048
Well-Known Member
Thanks ajf...that explains the difference that I was seeing. I had no idea you could set the correction. I was just using the default settings. I'll have to dig into the different programs and see how to change the settings.
aj,
Can you give us some examples of correction factors for common beer styles?
Can you give us some examples of correction factors for common beer styles?
william_shakes_beer
Well-Known Member
I have seen refractometers available on amazon for wine, beer, fruit juice, sailine water, and a variety of other purposes. Guess I need to make sure I purchase one specifically for beer to ensure the correction factor is correct.
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