IPA and mosaic hops

[Yooper]

I'm brewing today, making a 10.5 gallon batch. I love simcoe and amarillo, and want to use some mosaic. I'm trying to decide if they will all go together well, or if I should simplify and lower the simcoe or amarillo.

Here's what I've got so far:
OG 1.062
IBUs 61

23 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) 92.9 %
1 lbs Borlander Munich Malt (Briess) (10.0 SRM) 4.0 %
12.0 oz Amber Malt (22.0 SRM) 3.0 %

1.00 oz Magnum Leaf [16.40 %] - Boil 60.0 min
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min
1.00 oz Simcoe [11.90 %] - Boil 15.0 min
1.00 oz Mosaic [11.60 %] - Boil 5.0
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 10.0 min
1.00 oz Mosaic [11.60 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 10.0
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 10.0 min

1.0 pkg West Coast Ale I (Omega #OLY-004) (for one fermenter)
1.0 pkg West Coast IPA (Wyeast #1217) (for one fermenter)-

2.00 oz Amarillo - Dry Hop 5 Days (Or Mosaic? Or both? )
1.00 oz Simcoe - Dry Hop 5 Days

 

[bobbrews]

If memory serves, you are not a fan of overly juicy/fruity IPAs, especially those that rely on heavy use of Citra. Interesting choice with Mosaic hops, because some people describe it as Citra on steroids. I find that Mosaic can make Simcoe hops pop a bit more in a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio (heavier on the Simcoe).

In that case, I would mostly rely on Simcoe, then focus on Amarillo, and use Mosaic as a smaller supplement to each time slot.

Dryhop:

2.0 oz. Simcoe
1.0 oz. Amarillo
1.0 oz. Mosaic

or

1.5 oz. Simcoe
1.5 oz. Amarillo
1.0 oz. Mosaic

 

[1977Brewer]

I love Mosaic. I just won an insanely tiny comp with my Magnum/Mosaic IPA. 100 + IBU of Magnum in the boil, 1/2 at 60 and 1/2 at 30, 2 oz Whirlpool of Mosaic, 2 oz. Mosaic dryhop. I know it plays well with Amarillo, and I think Simcoe's piney charachteristics should help balance out all that citrus.

You're the expert, looks solid to me though.

aw heck, here's my recipe thread on it, forgot I posted it.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=527035

 

[Yooper]

If memory serves, you are not a fan of overly juicy/fruity IPAs, especially those that rely on heavy use of Citra. Interesting choice with Mosaic hops, because some people describe it as Citra on steroids.

In that case, I would go heavier on the Simcoe, then focus on Amarillo, and use Mosaic as a smaller supplement to each time slot.

Dryhop:

2.0 oz. Simcoe
1.0 oz. Amarillo
1.0 oz. Mosaic

or

1.5 oz. Simcoe
1.5 oz. Amarillo
1.0 oz. Mosaic

Good memory, Bob! This is sort of a compromise, as my favorite IPA is simcoe/amarillo but (my) Bob had a 100% mosaic beer and he loved it. So I'm trying to please both of us. Maybe it will be "too citra-y" for me, but I'm hoping not!

Interestingly, I tried this beer the other day, from Oddside Ales:
Citra Pale Ale
This light crisp ale is sure to capture your taste buds. Not quite a pale ale not quite an IPA. This is our flagship beer which is brewed exclusively with citra hops. The aroma is intoxicating bouquet of grapefruit, tropical fruit, lemon, and pine. 5.75% ABV

It is 100% cat pee to me. I didn't get any "lemon" or "pine" but I got "cat litter box".


Anyway, thanks for you input- I really appreciate your thoughts here!

 

[badlee]

I would bump up a 15 minute addition with Mosaic. From my one beer with this hop,all additions in the last 20, Mosaic was a real winner.
A friend of mine did a similar brew but with Mosaic as dry hop only and it lacked in presence

 

[bobbrews]

Oddside Ales:
Citra Pale Ale
This light crisp ale is sure to capture your taste buds. Not quite a pale ale not quite an IPA. This is our flagship beer which is brewed exclusively with citra hops.

It is 100% cat pee to me. I didn't get any "lemon" or "pine" but I got "cat litter box".

I'm not surprised with a single hop Citra beer. That "cat pee", gooseberry, sharp grapefruit profile comes out when you boil Citra for too long, especially early/mid boil additions. I never get it from very late boil and dryhop additions. At those slots, all I get is mango and lychee. Very tropical.

But like you, I am not a fan of Citra. I feel that if you are not careful with Citra, it can completely take over.

 

[Dog House Brew]

Citra for me is dry hop only. Mosaic I agree needs to be small background addition to the Simcoe. I just finished an IPA that was very similar. My Magnum bittering got lost and over powered by my late additions. I used similar doses of Citra where you have your Mosaic. I say brew it and see what you both like. I won't use Magnum for my IPA bittering. Love it in everything else.

 

[ddrrseio]

citra and mosaic may have some similar qualities, but i don't get any of the citra problems - catpee, sweat, BO, whatever you prefer - in mosaic.

 

[Yooper]

Citra for me is dry hop only. Mosaic I agree needs to be small background addition to the Simcoe. I just finished an IPA that was very similar. My Magnum bittering got lost and over powered by my late additions. I used similar doses of Citra where you have your Mosaic. I say brew it and see what you both like. I won't use Magnum for my IPA bittering. Love it in everything else.

Well....................I found out that my inventory on my hops freezer was out of date and I had very little simcoe left after all.

So, I changed up the entire hops schedule. Sorry for the misinformation at the beginning of the post, and I'm so disappointed I am out of simcoe. No one near me brews, and I have no way to get more so I redid the hops schedule entirely:

1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.00 %] - Boil 15.0
1.00 oz Mosaic (HBC360) Hop [11.60 %] - Boil 5.0 min
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 min
1.00 oz Mosaic (HBC360) Hop [11.60 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 min

I have tons of other hops- citra, columbus, willamette, 7Cs, northern brewer, homegrown chinook, cascade and centennial, magnum, etc- but no simcoe. I can NOT believe that as well organized as I am that I could have run out of simcoe and not noticed. I'm kicking myself!

 

[Homercidal]

I like Citra. First time I had it was Chumley's Beer in Marquette. I've been brewing with it regularly for a few brews now. (BrewerinBR gave me his inventory of it since he hates it!)

On the flip side I didn't like Mosaic Promise from Founders. I thought it wasn't citrusy enough, but had more fruity and, to my tastes, earthy flavor.

But as you know there are many variables in beer, and a change in one thing can affect others.

I like cat pee though. Sometimes I just grab a cat make my own "Fresh Squeezed".

 

[Yooper]

I like Citra. First time I had it was Chumley's Beer in Marquette. I've been brewing with it regularly for a few brews now. (BrewerinBR gave me his inventory of it since he hates it!)

On the flip side I didn't like Mosaic Promise from Founders. I thought it wasn't citrusy enough, but had more fruity and, to my tastes, earthy flavor.

But as you know there are many variables in beer, and a change in one thing can affect others.

I like cat pee though. Sometimes I just grab a cat make my own "Fresh Squeezed".

Chumley gave me a whole pound of citra last year, and I still have most of it. I'm using it little by little, and I do like it with other C-hops.

I've never tried Mosaic Promise, and the only all-mosaic beer I had was that one from Lone Pint Brewing in Texas. Bob (and our friend Steve) loved it, and I thought it was pretty good but I was, uh, under the weather, that morning and didn't drink much beer at all that day.

 

[mascervesa]

One of my best IPA's to date was Mosaic and Amarillo late hops only. It does produce a super fruity IPA, which I dig. I don't think you will be dissappointed with your recipe without Simcoe, unless you're a cat squeezer.

Amount Fermentable
24 lb American - Pale 2-Row 87.3%
1.5 lb American - Caramel / Crystal 60L 5.5%
1 lb Flaked Barley 3.6%
1 lb American - Victory 3.6%
2 oz Warrior Pellet 16 First Wort 30.31
1.5 oz Chinook Pellet 11.4 First Wort 16.2
2 oz mosaic Pellet 11 Boil 1 min 1.48
1 oz Amarillo Pellet 8.6 Boil 1 min 0.58
2 oz mosaic Pellet 11 Whirlpool at 170 °F 45 min 14.98
2 oz Amarillo Pellet 8.6 Whirlpool at 170 °F 45 min 11.71
2 oz Amarillo Pellet 8.6 Dry Hop 5 days
4 oz mosaic Pellet 11 Dry Hop 5 days

 

[Homercidal]

One of my best IPA's to date was Mosaic and Amarillo late hops only. It does produce a super fruity IPA, which I dig. I don't think you will be dissappointed with your recipe without Simcoe, unless you're a cat squeezer.

Amount Fermentable
24 lb American - Pale 2-Row 87.3%
1.5 lb American - Caramel / Crystal 60L 5.5%
1 lb Flaked Barley 3.6%
1 lb American - Victory 3.6%
2 oz Warrior Pellet 16 First Wort 30.31
1.5 oz Chinook Pellet 11.4 First Wort 16.2
2 oz mosaic Pellet 11 Boil 1 min 1.48
1 oz Amarillo Pellet 8.6 Boil 1 min 0.58
2 oz mosaic Pellet 11 Whirlpool at 170 °F 45 min 14.98
2 oz Amarillo Pellet 8.6 Whirlpool at 170 °F 45 min 11.71
2 oz Amarillo Pellet 8.6 Dry Hop 5 days
4 oz mosaic Pellet 11 Dry Hop 5 days

I hope that's a 10 gallon recipe!

 

[thegreatmaibockaddict]

My friend says Simcoe is the one that tastes and smells like cat pee but whatever.

Here is a hop oil chart

http://www.thegreatmaibockaddict.com/hop-oil-chart.shtml

Mosaic is way down on the list. Hop oils are the key to flavor and aroma and all the others in the recipe look like they provide way more oils than the mosaic.

 

[mascervesa]

11 gallons in kettle. Just a mild 7.5% ABV IPA.

 

[NathPowe]

I made an IPA last year that was all Columbus and Mosaic. Equal parts if I remember right. It was really friggin good - that's a great combo in my opinion. I'm sure having some Amarillo in there will make it all the better.

Good luck with the brew and I hope you enjoy it.

Cheers.

 

[bobbrews]

Here is a hop oil chart

http://www.thegreatmaibockaddict.com/hop-oil-chart.shtml

Mosaic is way down on the list. Hop oils are the key to flavor and aroma and all the others in the recipe look like they provide way more oils than the mosaic.

You don't just go by total oil content range when selecting the best hops for IPAs.

There is also a strong correlation of successful IPA hops having:

• High Myrcene
• Low Caryophyllene, Humulene, Farnesene, etc.
• Low to Moderate Beta Acids
• Moderate to High Alpha Acids
• Average Oil Content
• Proven breeding lineage

Newport for instance are high beta acid and a descendant of Magnum. If you made a SMaSH IPA with them, you would likely be disappointed. The aroma is very mild, much like their descendant.

 

[Owly055]

One of my best IPA's to date was Mosaic and Amarillo late hops only. It does produce a super fruity IPA, which I dig. I don't think you will be dissappointed with your recipe without Simcoe, unless you're a cat squeezer.

Amount Fermentable
24 lb American - Pale 2-Row 87.3%
1.5 lb American - Caramel / Crystal 60L 5.5%
1 lb Flaked Barley 3.6%
1 lb American - Victory 3.6%
2 oz Warrior Pellet 16 First Wort 30.31
1.5 oz Chinook Pellet 11.4 First Wort 16.2
2 oz mosaic Pellet 11 Boil 1 min 1.48
1 oz Amarillo Pellet 8.6 Boil 1 min 0.58
2 oz mosaic Pellet 11 Whirlpool at 170 °F 45 min 14.98
2 oz Amarillo Pellet 8.6 Whirlpool at 170 °F 45 min 11.71
2 oz Amarillo Pellet 8.6 Dry Hop 5 days
4 oz mosaic Pellet 11 Dry Hop 5 days

WOW!! That's a pricey hop bill.... $25-30 worth of hops for a single brew, and I thought I was extravagant putting 3 ounces in 2.5 gallons.......... I really both Mosaic and Amarillo, but have never put them together........ they seem a little close. I'm leaning toward pairing Mosaic with some of the more "Noble" hops, as well as with some stone fruit / passion fruit flavors. My next brew will have a lot of Mosaic, but reduced from the previous brew, and will include Willamette and Motueka.

There seems to be an art to when and how much....... In my early days of brewing, I focused more on getting the IBUs where I wanted them, rather than on how to make the flavor really "pop"............... Now I'm doing almost all late additions, sometimes using Summit or something of the sort to get my IBUs so I can delay additions even later. I would love to be able to move the wort very slowly though a hop back......... but I'm not set up with a hop back, pump, or counterflow chiller.


H.W.

 

[agrazela]

Yooper, oddly enough I am fermenting a Maris Otter / Mosaic / S-04 SMaSH IPA right now.

It will be packaged--though likely not fully carbed--by our fishing trip after NHC, but I can certainly slip you an aluminum pint bottle (or two) to take home with you.

 

[Yooper]

Yooper, oddly enough I am fermenting a Maris Otter / Mosaic / S-04 SMaSH IPA right now.

It will be packaged--though likely not fully carbed--by our fishing trip after NHC, but I can certainly slip you an aluminum pint bottle (or two) to take home with you.

That sounds great!

I am picking up a couple Wisconsin and Michigan beers for you, and will bring them when you pick me up. Remind me, though, as 5 AM isn't my most shining moment.

 

[Yooper]

My friend says Simcoe is the one that tastes and smells like cat pee but whatever.

Here is a hop oil chart

http://www.thegreatmaibockaddict.com/hop-oil-chart.shtml

Mosaic is way down on the list. Hop oils are the key to flavor and aroma and all the others in the recipe look like they provide way more oils than the mosaic.

Simcoe has a little cat pee, with pine and citrus.

Braufessor sent me a very young all citra IPA, and it was major cat pee. I let the second bottle sit for two weeks longer, and tried it then and the cat pee did fade a lot into more tropical fruit aromas.

Only a homebrewer would say "cat pee in a good way"!

Mosaic does give a ton of flavor and aroma, that's why I'm using a modest amount (this is a 10 gallon batch), but I did promise Bob and all-mosaic beer soon.

 

[m00ps]

For what its worth, I think Mosaic is a nice rounded hop. Not overly juicy, its tropical flavors are curbed by a earthy kinda edge like a tiny bit of columbus. I think you'll like whatever you end up with.

Southern Tier makes a 2xONE IPA that is a double IPA SMaSH recipe with Mosaic if you want to see for yourself what its character is like.

I, on the other hand, love juicy IPAs. Last one was Huell Melon & Hallertau Blanc & Belma. Tastes like a hop fruit mixed berry smoothie. Little to no pine or citrus that I'm used to