Insulation as opposed to more wattage...

[lazarwolf]

Someone with real knowledge of this topic please respond. We just got 3 of the cajun injector electric turkey cookers for darn cheap, so were converting at least 2 of them for E BIAB set ups.

As a general contractor I can tell you about the importance of insulation. I even use ceramic insulation occasionally for hot pipes and tanks, so it got me to thinking... 1650 watts should be more than adequate to boil 7 gallons if Im not losing so much heat. Why not insulate between the outside of the turkey fryer and the kettle with perlite and refractory cement. In a 3 or 4 to one ratio.

Does anyone with knowledge of insulation see any issue with this? I know a 5/1 ratio could withstand temps above 2000F with out burning or turning brittle.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I own one of these, brewed a little with it, added a heatstick to reach boil...at 1650w they are under powered to boil a 5 gallon batch, but will do it with the lid on, then you can crack the lid to boil but it will take a long long time.

I have read of people having success insulating b/w the kettle liner and outer jacket as well. One fellow modded his for one pot to hold 2 elements from two fryers.

I now use mine to steam hot dogs at large parties....

 

[Brumateur]

in average 10 gallon uninsulated pot loosing around 300-600 Watt as heat loss (when not boiling).

 

[Zepth]

I can maintain a boil with about 2000w and no insulation. Not sure if I'd want to try and get to the boil with that power output. I have heard many people using reflectix as insulation. Since your pot will never see temps beyond boiling (105C, 220F - being generous for increased boil temp based on sugar content and altitude possibilities) there is little need to go with 2000 degree insulation.

Unless of course you plan to have a dual purpose kettle. I think most of us E-brewers will tell you that once you go electric your propane burner gets listed for sale.

 

[doug293cz]

I did some calculations yesterday (for another thread), and came up with 10,103 BTU/hr required to boil off 1.25 gal/hr. And, that is just to drive the evaporation, with no other heat losses considered. 1650W = 5630 BTU/hr. The best boil off you could possibly get (with perfect insulation) is 1.25 * 5630 / 10103 = ~ 0.7 gal/hr. That's pretty anemic, and you would get even lower, especially if your input voltage drops below 120V.

Brew on

 

[Owly055]

1650 watts is pathetically under powered for the size boil you are doing......... In my opinion. I use a propane range with the burner cranked far beyond it's normal output, AND a 2500 watt floating heater....... to reach boil in a decent amount of time with a 2.5 gallon brew. I have a gain of about 1 deg per ten seconds with this setup. The 2500 watts go off line when I hit boil, and the burner maintians a very strong rolling boil.

Insulation is always a good thing...... except when washing equipment.......But it does NOT make up for inadequate energy input. 1650 is inadequate in my opinion for 5+ gallons.... insulation or not.


H.W.

 

[lazarwolf]

So these were nearly free to us so. . Sounds like perfect insulation. Which as Gen contractors with access to ceramics I can achieve and a heat stick. Or smaller batches. Which is fine. We do lots of 2.5 and 3.5 gallon batches any way.

 

[passedpawn]

You could boil 5g with a 60W light bulb if the insulation was sufficient.

 

[lazarwolf]

I own one of these, brewed a little with it, added a heatstick to reach boil...at 1650w they are under powered to boil a 5 gallon batch, but will do it with the lid on, then you can crack the lid to boil but it will take a long long time.

I have read of people having success insulating b/w the kettle liner and outer jacket as well. One fellow modded his for one pot to hold 2 elements from two fryers.

I now use mine to steam hot dogs at large parties....

Have you made a bag for one yet?

 

[lazarwolf]

I did some calculations yesterday (for another thread), and came up with 10,103 BTU/hr required to boil off 1.25 gal/hr. And, that is just to drive the evaporation, with no other heat losses considered. 1650W = 5630 BTU/hr. The best boil off you could possibly get (with perfect insulation) is 1.25 * 5630 / 10103 = ~ 0.7 gal/hr. That's pretty anemic, and you would get even lower, especially if your input voltage drops below 120V.

Brew on

Thanks this is the kind of in put I'm looking for. I'm sure I can keep this low heat application from losing much if any heat. I've been brewing since...well since the first bush administration. When and why did boil off Rate become so important. Why should I care if I'm only losing .7 gallon per hour. Truly asking. There was a time when leading publications all warned against too vigorous of a boil. Im aware of DMS potential from all 6 row barleys. So I understand Ill need a rolling boil if and when I use Pilsner and other 6 rows.

I guess we could always use this thing as the ultimate mash tun. But I'm Sure with the heat stick we can get a good boil.

 

[lazarwolf]

So looking at this more closely. If I add my 1300 Watt 110 V heat stick on another circuit, to avoid lowering my Voltage, I should get to a rolling boil very quickly that is almost 10000 BTUs going into a pot that is not losing 360 BTUs to evap and another 410 to radiation per minute. This is now looking very promising. Think it could probably keep the boil rolling after it reaches a boil too, it is replacing far more than it is losing. The heat stick will just greatly increase the speed with which we reach a boil.

 

[wilserbrewer]

The electric 1650w turkey cooker will work great if you have a ton of patience. I have used one both with and without supplemental heat. Without adding a heat stick, it will boil and vent steam with the lid cracked partially open. With the lid on fully it will boil over with intensity!!!

Good little unit if you have all day to make a batch of beer. If your in a hurry, supplement with a heatstick. I'm not sure you need high tech insulation, lining the cavity b/w the pot and shell with reflectix or even cardboard would likely help.

Have you made a bag for one yet?

I don't think I have....but I'm always up for a challenge as long as you're not looking for the bag to add watts

You could boil 5g with a 60W light bulb if the insulation was sufficient.

Agreed! Perhaps if your pot was 10 feet tall and 4" in diameter....or maybe 17 feet tall and 3" in diameter, or are we going to insulate the top surface as well

You could pull also pull a vacuum on the pot and lower the wattage requirement even further....

 

[lazarwolf]

The electric 1650w turkey cooker will work great if you have a ton of patience. I have used one both with and without supplemental heat. Without adding a heat stick, it will boil and vent steam with the lid cracked partially open. With the lid on fully it will boil over with intensity!!!

Good little unit if you have all day to make a batch of beer. If your in a hurry, supplement with a heatstick. I'm not sure you need high tech insulation, lining the cavity b/w the pot and shell with reflectix or even cardboard would likely help.



I don't think I have....but I'm always up for a challenge as long as you're not looking for the bag to add watts


Agreed! Perhaps if your pot was 10 feet tall and 4" in diameter....or maybe 17 feet tall and 3" in diameter, or are we going to insulate the top surface as well

Wilser, your the man! Sounds like i dont really need my high tech ceramic bead insulation. Just a heat stick. Which I already own. I have a couple of cheap nylon paint bags. they should get us through the first couple of brews. but well look to order quickly. And yes, in truth, I probably will insulate the cavity and the lid as well... cause im a geek and I can. But now Ill just use food grade, polyurethane. Its safe to over 400F and I can fill the cavity quickly and make a simple cover to go over the lid....

 

[wilserbrewer]

Wilser, your the man! Sounds like i dont really need my high tech ceramic bead insulation. Just a heat stick. Which I already own. I have a couple of cheap nylon paint bags. they should get us through the first couple of brews. but well look to order quickly. And yes, in truth, I probably will insulate the cavity and the lid as well... cause im a geek and I can. But now Ill just use food grade, polyurethane. Its safe to over 400F and I can fill the cavity quickly and make a simple cover to go over the lid....

I honestly wouldn't bother insulating the lid...with the un-insulated lid on these things will erupt like Vesuvius when you least expect it

Whatever you do insulation wise, you will likely still want the boil pot to be easily removable from the unit for cleaning and cooling the wort....with just the air gap b/w the pot and unit, it works pretty well, I don't recall the outside housing getting terribly hot, and if your gonna add a heatstick anyways, that could likely crush the 100 watts the insulation would save....1300w heatstick should be plenty, bringing your total to almost 3000w is plenty for 5 gallon batches.

 

[doug293cz]

Wilser, your the man! Sounds like i dont really need my high tech ceramic bead insulation. Just a heat stick. Which I already own. I have a couple of cheap nylon paint bags. they should get us through the first couple of brews. but well look to order quickly. And yes, in truth, I probably will insulate the cavity and the lid as well... cause im a geek and I can. But now Ill just use food grade, polyurethane. Its safe to over 400F and I can fill the cavity quickly and make a simple cover to go over the lid....

Urethane foam will most likely provide better insulation than ceramic bead insulation (I dabbled in refractory ceramic insulation in college.) Just make sure you don't run the kettle dry and smoke the urethane. IIRC that stuff emits cyanide when it burns.

Brew on

 

[lazarwolf]

Well thanks guys. This had been great info. Going to try it with just the heart stick for now. If I'm unsatisfied then I'll insulate.