inspiration leads to frustration

[01steve]

I was inspired almost a month ago by an article in byo about testing different yeast on a split batch. I loved the idea because I find it difficult to enjoy many Belgian beers because of banana and bubblegum side-effects. I, unfortunately, hate those particular flavors. with that in mind, I made a split batch of Belgian dark strong and used 5 different yeasts.

recipe is as follows:
13lb pilsner
1lb munich 10l
.5 lb special b
.5 caramel 120
.25 coffee malt
and 1lb dark candy syrup @ high krausen

1oz saaz @ 60
1oz saaz @ 30
yeast steroids and irish moss @ 10min

calculated @ 75% efficiency (5 gal batch) for an og of 1.082
step mashed: 131 for 15min, 138 for 15, 145 for 45, 157 for 15, 168 for 10
I boiled for 90 mins.

if I was smarter I would have calculated for 4.5 gallons to fit my 5 single gallon fermenters.

I actually ended up w/ an og of 1.102 in a 4.5ish batch! great right? no! so no sense in adding the candy syrup.

chapter 2 fermentation:

the yeasts I used are...
1335 british ale 2 (new)
1968 London esb
1450 denny's 50
us-05
3711 French saison

aerated via shaking jugs.... gigiddy

all 5 single gallon jugs were filled evenly leaving enough room for krausen. yeast was pitched @ 70*. fermented in swamp cooler @ consistently 68*.

all but british ale 2 were seasoned yeast, though later batches have revealed that I need to work on my yeast health...

british ale 2 was first to start followed by esb then saison. us-05 and denny both got more yeast after sluggish starts.

chapter 3 a month later:

due to the pita it is to get a gravity reading in a 1gallon fermentor and a lack of time, I finally took gravity readings. (#'s are vague from memory)
british 2=1.030
esb=1.050
denny=1.070
us-05=1.50
French=1.030

chapter 4 now what?

I'm stuck at this point (pun?).
I know that I've kinda stressed the yeast in terms of alcohol tolerance... and likely under-pitching.

I've already swirled the fermenters and raised the temp.

I am looking to bottle these beers so I need the gravity to be more in the 1.018 range.

should I pitch more yeast?
should I add a small amount of the candy syrup?
amalyse enzyme?
are the yeast to stressed @ this point?
any other suggestions?

thanks in advance!

 

[kanzimonson]

So many things to comment on here.

If your yeast packs were fresh, then it probably wouldn't be underpitching. However, if those gravity readings are correct (I'm suspicious), it sounds like they didn't have a very healthy fermentation.

I also wanted to say that you definitely did not make a Belgian Dark Strong if you used those yeasts. The Saison may have some belgian character, but the rest of them are some sort of barleywine I guess.

If you want a Belgian yeast that doesn't have a ton of banana and bubblegum, I highly recommend the Ardennes strain. Its esters and phenols are more in the pear/apple/ginger/pepper arena than banana and clove.

And finally, my recommendation - I think your best bet would be to make a 1L starter with Cal Ale yeast, get it active, and pitch a small amount into each fermenter. It may not do anything. Give it a week or so to try and chomp the sugars down. Then go ahead and bottle.

Or dump it. I'm not a fan of turning failed beers into experiments. Sometimes you can salvage the batch, but most of the time they just end up mediocre.

 

[stpug]

A total guess here, but I suspect they have all run into the same problem - lack of initial oxygen. The yeast use that initial oxygen to build sterol reserves that become it's "life force" when the going gets rough and tough, and I guess that happens somewhere between 50 and 70 gravity points depending on yeast strain .

At this point, it's a complete guessing game on how to get your beers to finish up. Given the grainbill (mostly highly fermentable base grains) and mash schedule (1hr 15min in beta range), you should be finishing up in the 1.012-1.017 range with an average-to-highly attenuative yeast strain. You are well off from that mark. Time to make your "yeast strain substitution" experiment a "stuck fermentation solution" experiment.

US05 and 3711 are probably your two best bets to get working again. I would use each to test a solution. In one, I would probably hit with O2 aeration for 20 seconds (3711), in the other I would build a small starter and pitch it at high krausen (US05) being sure to fill the headspace with O2 and shaking it into solution just prior to pitching. Watch and see what happens. If they finish up then you can taste the results and proceed with using the method of choice on the remaining carboys.

Big beers need LOTS of healthy yeast and LOTS of pure O2 from the get-go. Sometimes they even need a boost of O2 about 18-24 hours after pitching.

 

[peterj]

I also wanted to say that you definitely did not make a Belgian Dark Strong if you used those yeasts. The Saison may have some belgian character, but the rest of them are some sort of barleywine I guess.

+1 to this. Belgian yeast is what makes a beer a Belgian beer.

Secondly, did you take those gravity readings with a hydrometer or a refractometer? You have to use a correction calculator for a refractometer because the reading is not accurate after fermentation begins.

 

[01steve]

thanks for the suggestions.

all readings were taken via hydrometer.

I unfortunately, do not have a pure o2 setup-... normally I use my gf's wine whip on my drill to aerate the wort (for what ever reason I didn't do this to each jug). I'm afraid i'll oxidize the beer @ this point.

I have some of each yeast in mason jars still. I'm leaning toward pitching the rest in each respective jug... or making separate starters/decant/pitch

thank you for the suggestion on Ardennes yeast-... i'll have to pick some up.

I know that the yeasts used are not Belgian ale style yeasts but I'm trying to produce Belgian-esque flavors with yeasts that don't typicaly give off Belgian characteristics.
I'm mainly trying to please myself not win medals. one of the yeasts has given me the exact characteristic I was hoping for (though very under attenuated).

the british ale 2 was a brand new pack w/ in a month of production. a small starter was made and it still pithered out @ 1030.

 

[kanzimonson]

thanks for the suggestions.

all readings were taken via hydrometer.

I unfortunately, do not have a pure o2 setup-... normally I use my gf's wine whip on my drill to aerate the wort (for what ever reason I didn't do this to each jug). I'm afraid i'll oxidize the beer @ this point.

I have some of each yeast in mason jars still. I'm leaning toward pitching the rest in each respective jug... or making separate starters/decant/pitch

thank you for the suggestion on Ardennes yeast-... i'll have to pick some up.

I know that the yeasts used are not Belgian ale style yeasts but I'm trying to produce Belgian-esque flavors with yeasts that don't typicaly give off Belgian characteristics.
I'm mainly trying to please myself not win medals. one of the yeasts has given me the exact characteristic I was hoping for (though very under attenuated).

the british ale 2 was a brand new pack w/ in a month of production. a small starter was made and it still pithered out @ 1030.

If you simply pitch the remaining yeast in the beers they will do nothing.

You also do not want to make a starter, fully ferment it, decant, and pitch. You need to pitch active yeast into the batch. Make a starter with fresh yeast, watch it over the next 12 hours, and when you see it actively and vigorously fermenting, this is the time to pitch it.

 

[progmac]

have you calibrated your hydrometer in water?

your OG seems really high to me.

if everything is cool with your hydrometer, one way out might be to dump them all together and add a one liter starter of the white labs high gravity yeast. kind of ruins your experiment, though.

 

[kombat]

You also do not want to make a starter, fully ferment it, decant, and pitch. You need to pitch active yeast into the batch.

Not to nitpick, but this is incorrect. The purpose of a starter is not to get fermentation ripping along as quickly as possible. The purpose of a starter is to build up the required yeast cell count. That's it. That's the only purpose of a starter.

Letting the starter ferment out to completion ensures that the maximal number of yeast cells has been produced. Cold-crashing and decanting shortly afterwards ensures maximum cell viability and health, without contaminating your main batch with the off-flavours present in your starter beer.

Make a starter with fresh yeast, watch it over the next 12 hours, and when you see it actively and vigorously fermenting, this is the time to pitch it.

This will work, because by this point, the yeast have done all the multiplying they're going to do, and are at their peak cell count. But pitching the whole starter will introduce whatever off flavours are in your starter into your main batch of beer, for no real benefit.

Ferment your appropriately sized starters out completely, then cold-crash for 2 days. On brew day, take it out of the fridge to let it gently warm up while you brew. When it's time to pitch, decant almost all of the spent wort, swirl up the yeast in whatever starter wort remains (or pour in a little bit of the cooled wort you just brewed), and pitch it into the main batch. If you do this, you will allow the yeast to go through their lifecycle at the proper pace (the lag and reproduction phases are necessary steps to producing important flavour compounds, not annoyances to be ripped through as quickly as possible) and will have a nice, clean fermentation. You'll have a krausen within 12-24 hours, which is ideal.

 

[peterj]

Not to nitpick, but this is incorrect. The purpose of a starter is not to get fermentation ripping along as quickly as possible. The purpose of a starter is to build up the required yeast cell count. That's it. That's the only purpose of a starter.

Letting the starter ferment out to completion ensures that the maximal number of yeast cells has been produced. Cold-crashing and decanting shortly afterwards ensures maximum cell viability and health, without contaminating your main batch with the off-flavours present in your starter beer.



This will work, because by this point, the yeast have done all the multiplying they're going to do, and are at their peak cell count. But pitching the whole starter will introduce whatever off flavours are in your starter into your main batch of beer, for no real benefit.

Ferment your appropriately sized starters out completely, then cold-crash for 2 days. On brew day, take it out of the fridge to let it gently warm up while you brew. When it's time to pitch, decant almost all of the spent wort, swirl up the yeast in whatever starter wort remains (or pour in a little bit of the cooled wort you just brewed), and pitch it into the main batch. If you do this, you will allow the yeast to go through their lifecycle at the proper pace (the lag and reproduction phases are necessary steps to producing important flavour compounds, not annoyances to be ripped through as quickly as possible) and will have a nice, clean fermentation. You'll have a krausen within 12-24 hours, which is ideal.

For fresh wort, this is true. But he's not pitching into fresh wort on brew day. He's trying to restart fermentation by pitching into an alcoholic environment of half fermented wort.

 

[kombat]

Ah, in that case, then I would do as kanzimonson suggested and pitch it at peak activity. I apologize for maligning his good name.

 

[kanzimonson]

Ah, in that case, then I would do as kanzimonson suggested and pitch it at peak activity. I apologize for maligning his good name.

Yep, I agree with everything you said for new wort. But we can still fight if you want?