Input on Hop rhizomes

[djfriesen]

I have the opportunity to order hop rhizomes through my local HBS. I am interested in getting some input from all of you as to what I should get. I don't have access to he list of available varieties, but we can take a philosophical slant: should I order something I'll use a ton of, or something that might otherwise be difficult to obtain in the future.

As I understand the process, the early crops will be small, but will increase each year. So in the short term, I would benefit from having a more rare rhizome. Conversely, in the long term, I would have a huge supply, so I would benefit more from having a variety that I use frequently and in large amounts.

What are peoples' thoughts? I suppose it really hinges on what specific varieties are available. I'll post this now, and update the thread as soon as I can find the rhizome list. Any input would be welcomed. Thanks.

Available rhizomes:

Brewers Gold
Cascade
Chinook
Columbus
Galena
Mt. Hood
Nugget
Sterling
Willamette
Centennial
Fuggle
Glacier
Golding
Hallertau
Magnum
Northern Brewer

 

[solbes]

Where are you located? The hops I grow in MN probably wouldn't do well in AZ (and vice versa).

I got maybe 0.5 oz dry from my first year plants. Others may get 2 or 3 from each, so it kind of depends. I would plan more for the long term. I've heard once these things get going they can be very prolific. So you wouldn't want a lb or two every year of something you rarely use.

Also think about how you are going to use these. Nothing tastes and smells better than fresh hops used in late ketlle and/or dry hop additions. Perfect use for home grown hops. If you are going to bitter with them, you will be somewhat guessing on AAU since it can change from plant to plant, even season to season. My bittering hops are usually much different than my late kettle/dry hops. Just my two cents, good luck!

 

[djfriesen]

Those are good thoughts. I was wondering about AA content anyway. Maybe I would be best off considering only good flavor/aroma varieties. The LHBS owner is a local resident and has ordered rhizomes for sale in the past. Hopefully she knows what will and won't grow here in SW Idaho.

 

[res291que]

I was fortunate enough to talk to someone who buys hops for breweries and he was kind enough to suggest two strains of hops for me if I was going to plant. He said in his opinion I could probably benefit most from planting Amarillo and Cascade, if I was only to plant two varieties. Having difficulty finding Amarillo if anyone has a suggestion where to get I would appreciate it.

 

[cheezydemon3]

Cascade puts all else to shame for me.

Next year I fully expect it to suffocate my willamette, Hallertaur, and Magnum.

Out of 8 3rd year bines, the 2 cascades made 95% of my harvest.

 

[Retrofit]

If you've been brewing for a while, you know what hops you use.

Make a list of the hops you use and target those first.
After you have your list of hops, look at those hops and factor in your area.

If XYZ grows great in your region, but you never use it or don't like it- that's no good to you. Beyond that activity of gardening, as a brewer you should use what you grow. So focus on those- the hops you use.

Amarillo is a proprietary- you can't get it anywhere.

 

[BBL_Brewer]

If I were you, I would try and grow what you use the most. Growing hops is a little bit of a pain. You will most likely have to water quite a bit and maybe fertilize to get a good crop. No sense in wasting time and effort on something you won't use very often.

Cascade is a good choice. One of the easier varieties to grow and a great hop. I grow cascade, centennial and CTZ. The CTZ is by far my most robust plant. It grows like wild fire and puts out a bumper crop without fail. The centennial is the weakest of the three. I've yet to get a whole pound off of her. Love that fresh centennial for IPA's though.

As for bittering, I wouldn't worry about the AAU's so much. I use my homegrown almost exclusively (because I'm cheap) and I don't have any problems with bittering. Just estimate the AAU's based on commercial values and make adjustments after the first batch. Now if you are brewing a very specific recipe like a clone or something and want to know for sure that the numbers are right, then use some store bought. But for most batches, all homegrown is fine and very tasty.

 

[djfriesen]

I would only be able to adjust my bittering hops based on my perception of bitterness. That seems kind of arbitrary, especially if I am trying to translate a value across several different recipes. I suppose it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but I'd almost rather get a controlled value by buying commercial bittering hops. How does CTZ fare for flavor/aroma on IPAs? As my favorite style, I would really like to get some really strong flavor/aroma and could conceivably use a lot of hops to do it.

 

[BBL_Brewer]

The CTZ has great flavor and aroma. Piney, resiny, pungent and very high alpha. I use it mostly for aroma/finishing and dry hopping. It does make a great IPA. Not great for bittering though, too harsh IMO, but since you're leary of using HG to bitter with I guess that won't make a difference. I was against is at first myself, but once my freezer filled up with hops and I cranked out a few batches I quickly realized that it's not that big a deal.

 

[djfriesen]

Thanks for the info. This is all really new to me. Honestly, I haven't 100% percent committed to it. I really just want to explore the issue and see if it will save me anything in the long run.

Columbus sounds great for the late boil hops. Is there anything on that list I edited in that would be a good, versatile hop for something not an IPA? Maybe Fuggle or Hallertau?

 

[onthekeg]

I only have 3 plants, and I have excess from the Nugget. The centennial gives about a 5 gal pail full annually, the Nugget about 4 pails, and the cascade, 1 gallon. This is in MN.

 

[djfriesen]

I haven't used wet hops. How far would a gallon of hops go in an average pale ale, just for reference?

 

[onthekeg]

they are about 75% water when picked, so divide by 4. 5 gallons is around a LB or so.

 

[TimBrewz]

Plant aroma hops. You cannot rely on bittering hops to give you a consistent result unless you have them analyzed for % AA in a lab. As mentioned, Cascade and Willamette are great choices. CTZ is great too, if you use for late additions. I grow all three with success in Portland. If you can buy "jumbo" rhizomes I recommend it, they will give you a much larger first year harvest.

Also, as asked previously about Amarillo,
You cannot buy Amarillo rhizomes. They are a private stock.

I do a 6:1 wet to dry hops conversion when I do my harvest ales. This seems to work well.

 

[mrgstiffler]

Plant aroma hops. You cannot rely on bittering hops to give you a consistent result unless you have them analyzed for % AA in a lab. As mentioned, Cascade and Willamette are great choices. CTZ is great too, if you use for late additions. I grow all three with success in Portland. If you can buy "jumbo" rhizomes I recommend it, they will give you a much larger first year harvest.

Also, as asked previously about Amarillo,
You cannot buy Amarillo rhizomes. They are a private stock.

I do a 6:1 wet to dry hops conversion when I do my harvest ales. This seems to work well.

Where around Portland could I find jumbo rhizomes?

 

[sweetcell]

I would only be able to adjust my bittering hops based on my perception of bitterness. That seems kind of arbitrary, especially if I am trying to translate a value across several different recipes.

well, hops typically fall within a range for a given varietal. not a perfect guide, but if you know your hops are between 10 and 14%, personally i'd assume 12% and go with that (adjusting based on how strong the small, past experience with this crop, etc). mind you, i tend to not follow recipes to the letter so i'm OK with it turning out a little more or a little less hoppy.

i've just spent some time putting a bunch of information into a spreadsheet, i'll share it momentarily. stay tuned.

 

[B-Hoppy]

well, hops typically fall within a range for a given varietal. not a perfect guide, but if you know your hops are between 10 and 14%, personally i'd assume 12% and go with that (adjusting based on how strong the small, past experience with this crop, etc). mind you, i tend to not follow recipes to the letter so i'm OK with it turning out a little more or a little less hoppy.

i've just spent some time putting a bunch of information into a spreadsheet, i'll share it momentarily. stay tuned.

In a nutshell, that's a good 'trial-and-error' way to zero in on the alpha when using them for bittering. Another aid that I use is to look at the amount of lupulin in the hops themselves. This will vary from year to year and if you're just starting off, try to compare the amount next to a commercially purchased hop with a known alpha. This may help you 'zero' in on the true alpha value without having to do too many experimental batchesl

One other point. Recently, I've seen many folks using the term 'varietal' when referring to individual hop 'varieties'. When I was studying Agriculture back in college, we learned about different varieties of plants - but the word varietal was never used, other than in describing certain styles of wines. I did a search and found this information: The Grape Escape: Variety vs. varietal, Pedants vs. poseurs | Louisville's Alt-Weekly | LEO Weekly . It's probably just me though! Happy Growing!!

 

[TimBrewz]

Where around Portland could I find jumbo rhizomes?

I got my Jumbos from Freshops and Steinbarts. Its been a few years back, but I think you can still find the Jumbos during rhizome sales time in mid-march. I think I paid around $8 for them, as compared to $4 for the regular rhizomes. The ones I got for Willamette and Cascade were really big, almost root balls and actually gave me a decent harvest year one.

 

[sweetcell]

i've just spent some time putting a bunch of information into a spreadsheet, i'll share it momentarily. stay tuned.

i've uploaded my "Hops Comparison" spreadsheet and created a thread for it:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f92/hops-comparison-table-297038/

please check it out and let me know if its useful, has errors/needs updates, etc. thanks!

One other point. Recently, I've seen many folks using the term 'varietal' when referring to individual hop 'varieties'. When I was studying Agriculture back in college, we learned about different varieties of plants - but the word varietal was never used, other than in describing certain styles of wines.

ah, thanks for the info. i had no idea "varietal" was incorrect. i've updated my spreadsheet accordingly.

 

[mrgstiffler]

I got my Jumbos from Freshops and Steinbarts. Its been a few years back, but I think you can still find the Jumbos during rhizome sales time in mid-march. I think I paid around $8 for them, as compared to $4 for the regular rhizomes. The ones I got for Willamette and Cascade were really big, almost root balls and actually gave me a decent harvest year one.

That's very good information, thank you!

 

[B-Hoppy]

ah, thanks for the info. i had no idea "varietal" was incorrect. i've updated my spreadsheet accordingly.

I'm not an English major but I used to play one on the railroad I worked for. Keep up the EXCELLENT work!

 

[sweetcell]

I got my Jumbos from Freshops and Steinbarts. Its been a few years back, but I think you can still find the Jumbos during rhizome sales time in mid-march. I think I paid around $8 for them, as compared to $4 for the regular rhizomes. The ones I got for Willamette and Cascade were really big, almost root balls and actually gave me a decent harvest year one.

i'm considering ordering mine from Great Lakes (Great Lakes Hops - Hop plants for sale, Beer & Wine Making - Zeeland, MI - Welcome | Facebook --> click on "Shop Now") because they sell complete crowns.

 

[mrgstiffler]

i'm considering ordering mine from Great Lakes (Great Lakes Hops - Hop plants for sale, Beer & Wine Making - Zeeland, MI - Welcome | Facebook --> click on "Shop Now") because they sell complete crowns.

I wonder if those would be pretty easy to get started the first year.

 

[sweetcell]

mrgstiffler - that certainly is my hope.

i'm now trying to decide between Great Lakes and Northwest Hops - Buy Dried Whole Hops and Hop Rhizomes Here! An Online Beer Hop Store with hop rhizomes and whole dried hops for sale. Brew your own beer with beer roots which sells potted plants. NWH is a tad cheaper, but slightly smaller selection. not sure if shipping cost is going to even things out, i'll look into it tomorrow.

 

[Labratbrew]

mrgstiffler - that i certainly my hope.

i'm now trying to decide between Great Lakes and Northwest Hops - Buy Dried Whole Hops and Hop Rhizomes Here! An Online Beer Hop Store with hop rhizomes and whole dried hops for sale. Brew your own beer with beer roots which sells potted plants. NWH is a tad cheaper, but slightly smaller selection. not sure if shipping cost is going to even things out, i'll look into it tomorrow.

You won't be disappointed with great lakes... Me and a buddy bought 50 crowns (5 varities) for $460. Can't wait to see what they produce in the summer!