Inkbird itc-308? $35 gets you wired, 2 stage temp controller.
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Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
He's been doing this for a long time on various facebook homebrew groups
but the mods there aren't stopping it. I much prefer the management style here.
Ordered one of these on Tuesday too. I'll report back when I get it.
I have no opinion on HBT searching techniques or communication difficulties with Chinese entrepreneurs.
I have no opinion on HBT searching techniques or communication difficulties with Chinese entrepreneurs.
jmpreiks
Well-Known Member
I ordered one today. Seems like a good deal! Now I just need to hunt craigslist for a mini-fridge while I wait for it to ship from China...
jmpreiks
Well-Known Member
Did anyone receive theirs yet? Mine says it left China July 14 but won't arrive until mid-August to September... I guess they are putting them on the slow boat.
It is not uncommon for something to take a month to get to the states from China. Usually, if I'm told 4 weeks, I do see it in 2. I got something from China in a week, a cable of all things. Shocked the **** out of me.
Just got mine today! took less time than they said, had Chinese words all over the package. Looks pretty dinky and the setup was alittle confusing. I have yet to test it out but it looks like its going to work.
jmpreiks
Well-Known Member
Great, looks like I should get it a lot sooner since you guys got yours already.
Mine is waiting for me when I get home today.
Brew on
Brew on
TenaciousJ
Well-Known Member
got mine a few days ago. looking to run some tests with the fridge I've been using to ferment in. then building a dual stage chamber
I received an Ink-Bird ITC-308 controller that was sent to me at no-charge by Ink-Bird as a result of some communications I had with them about bad recommendations they gave for wiring their ITC-1000 controller. As a result of our communications, Ink-Bird corrected the instructions for wiring the ITC-1000. I brought this up in this post to this thread., and surfaced my concerns that the ITC-308 may also be wired in violation of the NEC.
I have checked the wiring of the ITC-308 controller and it is not in compliance with the US National Electrical Code (NEC.) NEC Article 404 (as well as other articles) requires that switches be wired to interrupt the hot line to a load, rather than the neutral wire, in order to switch the load on and off. The ITC-308 is wired to switch the neutral connection to its output sockets, which violates the NEC.
The following pic shows the socket tester I used in some of my tests of the ITC-308
The next pic shows the socket tester in the COOLING socket of the ITC-308 while the probe temp is less than the setpoint temp and the ITC-308 has switched on the HEATING socket. The tester indicates that the neutral line is open (as a result of the ITC-308 switching the neutral wire), and that the COOLING socket is powered (otherwise no LED would light on the tester.)
The final pic shows that the COOLING socket is in fact energized to 120V when it should be off.
I also opened up the cases of the unit, and traced the internal power to relay to socket connections. All results are consistent with the ITC-308 switching the neutral side of the loads rather than the hot side of the loads.
The above information has been communicated to Ink-Bird. Ink-Bird responded that they would change the wiring as of today to comply with the NEC, and will make existing customers whole. Ink-Bird has responded quickly to the product issues I raised with them. However, it is troubling to me that a company that sells electrical products to consumers can make this kind of error in design.
I informed Ink-Bird of the compliance issue yesterday, and they requested that I delay going public with the information. I agreed to hold off for one day, and did so. They asked for additional delay, but I did not agree to that. I feel my responsibilities are to the HBT community, rather than Ink-Bird.
NOTE: Even though the ITC-308 is not in compliance with the NEC, the controller does work as advertised. I am not enough of an expert to advise on how much risk may be involved with this particular non-compliance. Therefore, I will not make any recommendation on whether or not you should purchase a current release controller. You will have to make that decision yourself.
Brew on
I have checked the wiring of the ITC-308 controller and it is not in compliance with the US National Electrical Code (NEC.) NEC Article 404 (as well as other articles) requires that switches be wired to interrupt the hot line to a load, rather than the neutral wire, in order to switch the load on and off. The ITC-308 is wired to switch the neutral connection to its output sockets, which violates the NEC.
The following pic shows the socket tester I used in some of my tests of the ITC-308
The next pic shows the socket tester in the COOLING socket of the ITC-308 while the probe temp is less than the setpoint temp and the ITC-308 has switched on the HEATING socket. The tester indicates that the neutral line is open (as a result of the ITC-308 switching the neutral wire), and that the COOLING socket is powered (otherwise no LED would light on the tester.)
The final pic shows that the COOLING socket is in fact energized to 120V when it should be off.
I also opened up the cases of the unit, and traced the internal power to relay to socket connections. All results are consistent with the ITC-308 switching the neutral side of the loads rather than the hot side of the loads.
The above information has been communicated to Ink-Bird. Ink-Bird responded that they would change the wiring as of today to comply with the NEC, and will make existing customers whole. Ink-Bird has responded quickly to the product issues I raised with them. However, it is troubling to me that a company that sells electrical products to consumers can make this kind of error in design.
I informed Ink-Bird of the compliance issue yesterday, and they requested that I delay going public with the information. I agreed to hold off for one day, and did so. They asked for additional delay, but I did not agree to that. I feel my responsibilities are to the HBT community, rather than Ink-Bird.
NOTE: Even though the ITC-308 is not in compliance with the NEC, the controller does work as advertised. I am not enough of an expert to advise on how much risk may be involved with this particular non-compliance. Therefore, I will not make any recommendation on whether or not you should purchase a current release controller. You will have to make that decision yourself.
Brew on
Great stuff Doug. very thorough and informative. thanks for taking the time to do this and document it so well.
Excellent, straight-forward testing method.
To those who want the specific listing of what, not how severe, the risks are on this it is no more complex than this:
With single phase power the neutral and equipment ground both end their journey in your home going to a big copper rod in the ground (or a metal water pipe if your house is very old).
The hot comes from the transformer outside your house, through your meter to your breaker box and eventually to the socket or fixture.
When the neutral is switched, this mean any path to ground (standing barefoot in a puddle) will complete the circuit.
In my house the common issue would be my basement takes on a little bit of water that I am squeegeeing to the floor drain in flipflops. The fermentation chamber fridge gets bumped, the control falls off the the side into the puddle and I get zapped. The $15 GFCI eventually pops...oh, wait the fridge in question trips GFCI's due to the start-up surge and subsequent spark so I uninstalled it. Instead, I get a +2000 Watt zap.
A lot of older switches in homes had both the fixture and the switch always hot (end-of-line). This was considered acceptable for many years. It is no fun when you run into one (or twelve!) of these so I for one am glad the code changed.
Well that is disappointing. On Amazon it says that there is a manufacturer's warranty from one year of purchase date... for what it's worth.
I'll be interested to hear if they contact me. Is NEC law in that all electrical devices sold in the US must conform to it? Or is it kind of a "best practices" code? I know dwelling codes make it law for construction but I'm curious about how it applies to appliances and this device.
I'll be interested to hear if they contact me. Is NEC law in that all electrical devices sold in the US must conform to it? Or is it kind of a "best practices" code? I know dwelling codes make it law for construction but I'm curious about how it applies to appliances and this device.
The e-mail I received from Ink-Bird said:
"I will contact our customers and replace a new controller to them"
This is all I know, and have no information on schedule.Brew on
1977Brewer
Free Dan Hess.
Doug, you're doing the Lord's work here, and I commend you. I'm ordering mine today, and will follow your test procedure to ensure the integrity of my unit when it arrives.
doug293cz said:
Well I just checked mine with my socket tester and it shows "wired correctly" (2 yellow lights on). So apparently some of them are wired correctly. I received mine on Saturday and have had it plugged in the entire time with no load but with the probe in my ferm. chamber.
Also tested the accuracy of the probe and it reads .3 degrees F. high.
I didn't have my phone with me so I will post pics later.
Ordered mine on the 14th, it arrived in LA today. I'm in Sac, so I'm hoping that means it was already unpacked from whatever container, and then comes up the I-5 in a couple days. Predicted delivery is still 3 weeks away though, so who knows if the shipping update is just saying "container's here, we'll unpack in two weeks."
Excited to see how it works though.
EDIT: After seeing Doug's post and rays post, I guess I'm investing in a socket tester!
If you put the socket tester in the heating socket when the controller is calling for heat, it will show as wired correctly, because the hot and neutral are wired to the correct socket slots. If you then put the tester in the cooling socket, it should show an open neutral. The neutral is open, because the controller relay is on the neutral wire. NEC requires switching the hot wire, not the neutral wire.
Brew on
I think your post should be linked in the OP or better yet have a thread of its own. This is the most important info in the whole thread. Once again. Nice job.
Does anybody know where Inkbird is based? I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that there was a miscommunication with an overseas manufacturer if they are based somewhere outside of China, and therefore could understand why they would need time to fix the issue. If it's being made in-house at a factory they own in China (doubtful) - then this issue is pretty irresponsible.
I'm still glad that you posted this, even if I can understand why they didn't want you to post those pictures until they have it all sorted out. Thanks!
Here is another picture I took of the inside of the duplex socket with the back cover removed. Since the neutral conductors are independent and the hot is common, the only way to control the sockets independently is to switch the neutral wires. Neutral switching is specifically prohibited by the NEC.
Brew on
Brew on
Mordhaus
Well-Known Member
I received mine yesterday through Amazon and just sent the seller a message asking what to expect as far as a replacement that is wired in compliance with the NEC. I'll post up their response once I get it.
If you put the socket tester in the heating socket when the controller is calling for heat, it will show as wired correctly, because the hot and neutral are wired to the correct socket slots. If you then put the tester in the cooling socket, it should show an open neutral. The neutral is open, because the controller relay is on the neutral wire. NEC requires switching the hot wire, not the neutral wire.
Brew on
You are correct. Mine is also miss wired.
mcgimpkins
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Any good way we can fix the wiring ourselves while we wait for Inkbird?
It's possible. Requires un-soldering, and re-soldering two wires in the control head, and then rearranging the contact strips in the duplex socket. The second step will require stripping some outer insulation on the cord at the socket to lengthen the individual wires, and also soldering of some other wires. I'll try to provide a more thorough explanation when I have some time.
Brew on
mcgimpkins
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I'm not scared of soldering, but I'm not an electrician either and I am not confident that I can properly rewire the device. In addition I do not want to hold my breath for the Quality Control at Inkbird China to come to my rescue. If I can fix it I will, I just need a good wiring diagram.
The contact strips appear to my uneducated eyes to be quick and easy. It's any fiddling inside the controller that I'm worried about - it would be much appreciated if you take some pictures since it sounds like you are well on your way to re-wiring yours, though I'm sure (read as: I hope) it ends up being pretty obvious once you actually are looking at the thing first hand.
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I received an Ink-Bird ITC-308 controller that was sent to me at no-charge by Ink-Bird as a result of some communications I had with them about bad recommendations they gave for wiring their ITC-1000 controller. As a result of our communications, Ink-Bird corrected the instructions for wiring the ITC-1000. I brought this up in this post to this thread., and surfaced my concerns that the ITC-308 may also be wired in violation of the NEC.
I have checked the wiring of the ITC-308 controller and it is not in compliance with the US National Electrical Code (NEC.) NEC Article 404 (as well as other articles) requires that switches be wired to interrupt the hot line to a load, rather than the neutral wire, in order to switch the load on and off. The ITC-308 is wired to switch the neutral connection to its output sockets, which violates the NEC.
The following pic shows the socket tester I used in some of my tests of the ITC-308
View attachment 291826
The next pic shows the socket tester in the COOLING socket of the ITC-308 while the probe temp is less than the setpoint temp and the ITC-308 has switched on the HEATING socket. The tester indicates that the neutral line is open (as a result of the ITC-308 switching the neutral wire), and that the COOLING socket is powered (otherwise no LED would light on the tester.)
View attachment 291825
The final pic shows that the COOLING socket is in fact energized to 120V when it should be off.
View attachment 291824
I also opened up the cases of the unit, and traced the internal power to relay to socket connections. All results are consistent with the ITC-308 switching the neutral side of the loads rather than the hot side of the loads.
The above information has been communicated to Ink-Bird. Ink-Bird responded that they would change the wiring as of today to comply with the NEC, and will make existing customers whole. Ink-Bird has responded quickly to the product issues I raised with them. However, it is troubling to me that a company that sells electrical products to consumers can make this kind of error in design.
I informed Ink-Bird of the compliance issue yesterday, and they requested that I delay going public with the information. I agreed to hold off for one day, and did so. They asked for additional delay, but I did not agree to that. I feel my responsibilities are to the HBT community, rather than Ink-Bird.
NOTE: Even though the ITC-308 is not in compliance with the NEC, the controller does work as advertised. I am not enough of an expert to advise on how much risk may be involved with this particular non-compliance. Therefore, I will not make any recommendation on whether or not you should purchase a current release controller. You will have to make that decision yourself.
Brew on
We are here to make a formal apology for the mistake to our customers.
First of all, many thank you for Mr. Doug's supervision and consulting, so that we can find the mistake and correct it to be in compliance with the requirements of NEC in time.
Most important, this is able to avoid that our customers are in dangerous when they use ITC-308 due to our mistakes.
Secondly, we are not trying to evade responsibility. When we received the emails from Mr. Doug on July 22, we started to investigate our production records in our factory, and try to find out the reason of the mistake. On July 23, we checked the records paper and tested the inventory in our stock and found that the production batch before July 20 may have this error of wiring. The probability of mistake is about 60%. We had a meeting this morning and make the solution here:
The customer who have purchased ITC-308 before July 20, please unscrew the screws of the controller box and check the PCB board, if the wiring are the same as bellow, please shot a photo and send to [email protected], We will make the solutions as bellow to you:
1. If you have electrician knowledge, we suggest to send a socket to you, and then you can correct the wiring according to our tutorial. To thank you for your help, we will provide a 25% Off discount credit, you can buy any products from INKBIRD.
2. To exchange a new ITC-308.
If you choose the first choice, we will be very grateful to you, because this will save us much, but also you can safely use the product and get a 25% off discount credit.
Of course, if you choose the second choice, we will also perform as this statement.
At last, I would like to explain why we requested Mr. Doug posted it delay. Because we need time to take respond, we need time to investigate, analyze, test, and find a solution. From the date I received the report till now, it has just passed two days. We really try to make it better and provide a good service to our customers. We do take our responsibility.
New wiring of ITC-308:
We have corrected all the ITC-308 in our stock yet. Now it’s in compliance with the requirements of NEC.
Please be assured purchase.
Bellow I will show the test to the wiring of ITC-308:
Preface: When two probes are closed, the red light will be on as figure 1. It Means that the circuit is closed;
ITC-308 is power off:
Figure 2,3,4 show: when the probes are in Neutral line and Ground line, the red light is on, it means that the circuit is closed;
Figure 5 shows: when the probes are in Live(hot) line, the red light is not on, it means that the circuit is open.
ITC-308 is power on:
Figure 6,7,8, show: When the heating light is on in the controller box, there are heating output in the HEATING socket. We can see that Live(hot) line has power output, and no power output from neutral line directly.
Figure 9,10, show: When the heating light is on in the controller box, there are no output in cooling Socket.
In summary, the new wiring of ITC-308 is in compliance with the requirements of NEC. The temperature controller control the output by Live(hot) wire.
INKBIRD TECH. C.L.
Ken
[email protected]
2015/7/24
Roadliner
Well-Known Member
Always glad to see a company listen to it's customers.
Nice job @inkbird . Very nice. I hope you sell a bunch of them. Best of luck
Mordhaus
Well-Known Member
Good on Inkbird for handling this so well.
jmpreiks
Well-Known Member
I wish all companies were this quick to respond and show that they truly care about their customers. Thanks Inkbird!
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