Inconsistent success using Fermcap-S

[ILMSTMF]

TL;DR - does it lose effectiveness if used in liquid boiling above ex. 205F?

I always use it in my starters. In 2L flask, I have produced a starter at 1.8L that blew over. I always create a 1040 wort. While it boils, I add at least a drop of Fermcap-S (usually 3 drops because I squeeze too hard). That blew over while on the stir plate. Key detail - the yeast was about 1.5 months young going into the wort. Estimating 100b cells. It was F0St2 (not harvested from a full batch. Taken from manufacturer package and used in two starters. Each time, pitching a portion to brew day and overbuilding / ranching for future use.)
Last week, F0St8 was in storage for 6 months. Again, estimating 100b cells (at time of ranching). A 2L 1040 wort was produced. No blow over while on plate. During the boil, I took care not to heat to the point where the wort was bubbling and splashing madly. Is that the reason the Fermcap-s "worked"?

Thanks in advance.
Mods - please move this if I posted in wrong forum.

 

[hotbeer]

Not sure you've described what your problem is that you are trying to solve with Fermcap.

I don't use it. During boils I can control the foam with air, or a spray of water from a squirt bottle. As well as just starting with a slower boil till the foam quits being created faster than it can be contained.

In the fermenter, I've not had a blowout ever since I switched to blow off tubes of a large diameter and made sure I keep about 15 to 20 percent of the FV volume as headspace.

 

[ILMSTMF]

Not sure you've described what your problem is that you are trying to solve with Fermcap.

Whoops, my mistake.
I am using it with the intent of preventing flask blow-overs, in starters. That is, when the resulting cooled wort is in flask on the stir plate. Not during the boil phase.

In the fermenter, I've not had a blowout ever since I switched to blow off tubes of a large diameter and made sure I keep about 15 to 20 percent of the FV volume as headspace.

When I was using PET bucket for FV, I had a few blowouts. Through the airlock and seeping from where the lid sealed on the bucket. I don't miss those days!

 

[IslandLizard]

The OP is talking about using Fermcap-S when boiling his starter wort, in an effort to prevent (or at least reduce) blow off later when his yeast starter is on the stir plate.
He still seems to have excessive foaming while his flask is on the stir plate. How fast is it stirring?

Do you shake that bottle of Fermcap well before squeezing out that drop? I read somewhere homogenization before use is essential.
Do you keep it stored in the fridge all the time?

 

[ILMSTMF]

How fast is it stirring?

Not snail pace but not warp speed either. I try to make sure there is a dimple on the surface.

Do you shake that bottle of Fermcap well before squeezing out that drop? I read somewhere homogenization before use is essential.

I did that on my latest 2L starter, no blow over! Perhaps that's to thank?

Do you keep it stored in the fridge all the time?

Another revelation. I've always kept it stored in pantry, room temp. Bad idea?
Thanks!

 

[IslandLizard]

Not snail pace but not warp speed either. I try to make sure there is a dimple on the surface.

The dimple should suffice.

From what I've read the potential issue with "stirring too fast" is risk of shear stress upon the yeast. I'm not sure how fast the stirring needs to be before that starts to play a role.
Allegedly, (my) orbital shakers are to be shear stress free, although there's much sloshing going on. Maybe sloshing is harmless, but the constant force of rotation (on a stir plate) is not, hence don't stir at too high a speed.

 

[IslandLizard]

[Re: shake before use] I did that on my latest 2L starter, no blow over! Perhaps that's to thank?

That's very likely.

Per the manufacturer's instructions:
"The ingredients of this product may settle. For best results, the closed package should be shaken vigorously before use."

The liquid is quite thick and viscous, it takes quite some effort to shake it, but seems to be an essential part of the proper application.

[Re: storage] Another revelation. I've always kept it stored in pantry, room temp. Bad idea?

Per the manufacturer's instructions:
"Do not freeze, store below 90º F."

I guess you're OK with it being stored in the pantry.
IIRC, my bottle's label mentions "store refrigerated."

Source:
Fermcap® S - 1 kg | BSG | Bulk Brewing & Beer Supply Company

 

[ILMSTMF]

"The ingredients of this product may settle. For best results, the closed package should be shaken vigorously before use."

The liquid is quite thick and viscous, it takes quite some effort to shake it, but seems to be an essential part of the proper application.

This very well could be the culprit. Thanks!

 

[TLaffey]

I use Fermcap-S for the same reason as the OP. Two points to add to the thread: Even refrigerated and shaken before use, there is a shelf life. So if it clumps or gets mold, replace it! Second, there is a maximum amount you can use due to the nature of the product. To be sure that there is no more than a certain threshold in the final beer, you need to limit the amount added. I once calculated that level to be 4-drops total per 5G batch, whether I use it in the starter or the kettle or both. There's a max dose specified in the link below and in the one IslandLizard included.

Another link: https://www.brewshopro.no/images_hovedside/TDS - FermCap S.pdf

 

[ILMSTMF]

I use Fermcap-S for the same reason as the OP. Two points to add to the thread: Even refrigerated and shaken before use, there is a shelf life. So if it clumps or gets mold, replace it! Second, there is a maximum amount you can use due to the nature of the product. To be sure that there is no more than a certain threshold in the final beer, you need to limit the amount added. I once calculated that level to be 4-drops total per 5G batch, whether I use it in the starter or the kettle or both. There's a max dose specified in the link below and in the one IslandLizard included.

Another link: https://www.brewshopro.no/images_hovedside/TDS - FermCap S.pdf

Oh wow, 24 month shelf life. The bottle has nothing printed on it; the label has a string of numbers and letters below "product of Ireland".

I'll just use my purchase date for reference... about 4.5 years ago!

One note - this worked well in my two most recent starters. The liquid within looks white all the way through. But for only $3 for a new bottle, not sure if worth rolling the dice on future applications. Will have to add to my next order. Thanks all!

 

[IslandLizard]

Even refrigerated and shaken before use, there is a shelf life. [...]

"Shelf life" can be debatable... falls in the same category as Best by and Expiration dates.

Oh wow, 24 month shelf life. The bottle has nothing printed on it; the label has a string of numbers and letters below "product of Ireland".

I'll just use my purchase date for reference... about 4.5 years ago!

One note - this worked well in my two most recent starters. The liquid within looks white all the way through. But for only $3 for a new bottle, not sure if worth rolling the dice on future applications. Will have to add to my next order. Thanks all!

My (1 oz) bottle is much older (I estimate at least 6-7 years old, right now, there's no date on the label*) and still seems to work as promised.

The label instructs to use 2 drops per gallon of wort. Now I only used in yeast starter wort, and typically prepare 4.5-6 liters (1.2-1.6 gallons) at a time, using only one drop of Fermcap-S. After shaking it's an thick, viscous, opaque white liquid. Dunno what it looks like or if any separation is visible after it's been sitting for a couple months in the fridge because the plastic (dispenser) bottle is barely translucent white.

BTW, I always need to use a toothpick to clean the channel in the flip-up nozzle before I can get any product out. After all those years, I've used less than a 1/4 of that 1 oz bottle so far.

* From what I can see, my bottle was filled by the LHBS I used to go to at times over a few years period. Obviously it was filled from a larger container, judging by the crappy generic label. I often frown upon those refilling practices.

 

[ILMSTMF]

"Shelf life" can be debatable... falls in the same category as Best by and Expiration dates.

(I estimate at least 6-7 years old, right now, there's no date on the label*) and still seems to work as promised.

* From what I can see, my bottle was filled by the LHBS I used to go to at times over a few years period. Obviously it was filled from a larger container, judging by the crappy generic label. I often frown upon those refilling practices.

All that considered, it still does the job it's supposed to do. Point taken!