Important Statement From Midwest Supplies

[BeerGrylls]

Seems very distasteful and predatory to me.

I'm very surprised Midwest hasn't weighed in on this thread beyond the initial post. There's clearly a lot of ire and they seem to be totally unconcerned by it.

I think that would be like walking into the wolf den wearing a steak suit.

 

[Rhumbline]

Seems very distasteful and predatory to me.

I'm very surprised Midwest hasn't weighed in on this thread beyond the initial post. There's clearly a lot of ire and they seem to be totally unconcerned by it.

I think he handled it well. In reading this and other threads and seeing how rapidly things went pear shaped for MW I think he's right to get in front of this.

He didn't trash anyone, he seems legitimately concerned and he has good reason to be.

 

[thatjonguy]

I think he handled it well. In reading this and other threads and seeing how rapidly things went pear shaped for MW I think he's right to get in front of this.

He didn't trash anyone, he seems legitimately concerned and he has good reason to be.

+1

I don't think it came across as predatory either. Seems like if someone was upset, that they wanted to personally know about it and have the opportunity to make it right.

 

[dkwolf]

Seems very distasteful and predatory to me.

I'm very surprised Midwest hasn't weighed in on this thread beyond the initial post. There's clearly a lot of ire and they seem to be totally unconcerned by it.

I'd have to disagree with the 'distasteful and predatory' part.

If something like that had been sent out after your 'typical' breach (where the company in question handles it well like everyone expects them to), then maybe.

But considering Midwest's handling of this situation at best could be described as a bunch of monkeys fornicating with a football, and more realistically could be used as a how-NOT-to guide for successful business operations, any competing business sending out something saying "Hey, feel free to ask us about our practices" is well within their rights.

Heck, I wouldn't blame 'em if they decided to say "Send us a copy of your letter from Midwest, and we'll honor their $25 coupon"

 

[ECUmedford]

But considering Midwest's handling of this situation at best could be described as a bunch of monkeys fornicating with a football, and more realistically could be used as a how-NOT-to guide for successful business operations, any competing business sending out something saying "Hey, feel free to ask us about our practices" is well within their rights.

Well said. I sent this to my old Public Relations Theory professor to put in his next case study text book. That whole class was nothing but good and bad examples of PR.

 

[hunter_le five]

This is better than the "Funny Things You've Overheard About Beer" thread.

 

[mattd2]

Id have done this a long time ago. I don't see it as distasteful at all. No where does Williams discredit any other business. They are just reaching out to their customers to make sure that they are happy. Its being proactive. Something MW could have done a better job at. As for predatory, maybe. I could see that, but after all they are in competition with all the other homebrew shops of the world. If the choices are predator or prey, Ill take predator every time.

And part of being a business in a competative market is to review your competitors and your business for your Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, and Threats. I would call the Williams case an example of good business!

 

[antitelephonica]

I don't shop with MW/NB anyway, their prices regularly suck.

 

[Teromous]

Mildly off-topic, but I find it funny that I found out about this via a homebrewtalk thread. I am on the Midwest Homebrewing Supplies email distro and the last thing I got from them was an ad about their Pom Zin wine kits.

However, I just got the William's Brewing email titled "Integrity & Service?" and it reads:

"There has been a lot of talk online recently about integrity, customer service, and investor buyouts in the home brewing business. This has led me to think back over the years about William's Brewing and the job we have done. Have you ever been dissappointed by us, and why? Conversely, if love what we are doing, I am not ashamed to say I love praise. As the founder of William's Brewing, I feel personally responsible for everything we do."

It's something to chew on at the very least.

 

[beernutz]

That's not what I said at all, nor inferred. Please go back and read though my posts again.

I did read your posts including the main one, "That's half my point...other companies may be as bad. It just seems a bit hypocritical to take one's business elsewere, while acknowledging (or not considering) elsewhere may not have any better security than MWS (did)."

My reply is the the logical conclusion from your assertion that it is hypocritical to change to a different supplier where security may not be better than at the supplier you are leaving.

No one can really know, unless they actually work in a security-related area at one of the suppliers in question, how good a supplier's security procedures actually are. All you know is what they claim they do, if anything. Therefore a customer will never know for certain that the "new" supplier has better security than the one where they have actually experienced a security-related problem.

Consequently, as I interpret your assertion, anyone who leaves a supplier in such a situation is a hypocrite since they are going to a supplier where they cannot know for certain that the security situation is any better. Therefore it seems logical you ask you as I did, "So no matter what a merchant may do to compromise your account information you would never stop shopping with them because other merchants also have the potential to do the same?"

A small point is that unless we disagree on the definition of hypocrite, I'm not sure how that would apply to anyone in the situation described above.

1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.

2. a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, especially one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

Which one of these two are you using?

 

[Yuri_Rage]

Arguing semantics and word choice is neither productive nor likely to elicit a response from the vendor...

 

[PastorofMuppets]

I like williamsbrewing.com so much that I emailed them and got a reply. They earned a loyal customer. I am sure that feedback email went out because of this situation and I see nothing distasteful. Merchants should want regular feedback from customers. Below is our email exchange.





Hello,

I have spent a fair amount of money with Williamsbrewing.com. I will be honest and tell you that all the homebrew sites run together. If I want something I shop around until I find the lowest price with the lowest shipping. Mostly, I buy only from my local store. I believe in supporting local business, but sometimes they are just too far away with what I can get online. A recent order for keg faucets and parts happened purely because when I had a question you all answered the phone and helped. I was set to order with k************.com and canceled it because they didn’t answer the phone and didn’t promptly respond to email. It’s the little things that keep a customer like me.

Williamsbrewing.com has become a first check place when I need a specialized part, fitting, accessory etc. I find the site easy to navigate and understand. It seems like you are more in tune with small business and not just sales figures. When I had to call and get help from an associate, I found that person helpful, with the knowledge I needed. I forgot a part I wanted and it was no problem to add the item to my order and still get it out the same day. Even though I am far away for shipping purposes, I would order from williamsbrewing.com again because I was treated right and felt appreciated. We all know there are a huge amount of options for where to send homebrewing business, so making the customer feel appreciated is very, very important.

Thanks,



W***


and the reply....

W***:

Thanks for your honest appraisal. We appreciate your business, and will do all we can to earn your business in the future.

Sincerely;

Bill Moore
William's Brewing
2088 Burroughs Avenue
San Leandro CA 94577
USA
510-895-2739 extension 101
[email protected]

 

[TheWeeb]

Okay, so all of this back and forth aside, and maybe I missed a post or five, but if the security and procedures for maintaining customer information were so horrible at MW, then why not look at a class action lawsuit? Certainly there must be lawyers out there that also are homebrewers and would jump at the chance to represent us and make proper amends. Talk is one thing, action, another.

 

[Cathedral]

Pardon my naivety, but I've been following this thread from the beginning; in fact I remember the first time it was posted about someone having been hacked oh-so-many months ago.

It really disturbs me--pisses me off--to read the posts where people say, "oh, it's the internet, you're going to get hacked," as if that is some sort of excuse. People who say, "I've been hacked once or twice a year, it's just expected," is simply ludicrous. As if the struggles you go through by being unscrupulous is the norm.

Hacking, being hacked, having your **** stolen, used, borrowed, is a ZERO TOLERANCE rule. Simply because this is "the internet" and "that **** happens" is NO excuse for it to happen. We, as the consumers, put full trust in the vendors that they are taking actions to stop it from happening. When it does happen, it is not simply something that "you just have to expect," but it is a violation of trust, respect, and integrity.

Being hacked is something that you should never expect or TOLERATE. One violation is one too many.

I understand that there are--literally--billions of people accessing the internet every second. In this ocean of people, yes, there are bound to be many, many sharks. However, aside from proactiivity (or a lack of) on behalf of yourself, there is no excuse for being bitten.

Having people try to steal money from you is inexcusable, and it has been since the dawn of time. Simply because it happened on the internet is no reason to disregard it. If you know there is a place where thieves are targeting (a den of thieves, eh?) then avoiding it is not only scrupulous, it is simply the most intelligent thing to do.

I've never bought from Midwest or Northern Brewer. Because of this thread, I never will. Ever.

 

[PastorofMuppets]

As I have stated before I work in the industry of merchant accounts, payment processing and the like.
I wont give my resume other than to say one site I managed did over 15,000 transactions per month and made over 200,000 per month in sales. We do not store any credit information. It is simply unhackable. All transactions are encrypted and accounts are stored on a 3rd party site such as authorize.net - We NEVER had a single breach ever in the 9 years I have been with this company. To say it happens all the time is such a crock. To say its expected is stupid. Websites can be made totally secure and if MW didn't take all the steps to ensure that was the case then they deserve to lose every customer they ever had...bottom line

 

[Danbreeze]

My information was not hacked by Midwest, however, I do have to say I am grateful for being part of a home brewing community like HBT that keeps people informed of issues like this.

I was actually going to place an order with MW, but I am now going to wait until a sound response is given from their big wigs as to what happened.

 

[Pappers_]

Pardon my naivety, but I've been following this thread from the beginning; in fact I remember the first time it was posted about someone having been hacked oh-so-many months ago.

It really disturbs me--pisses me off--to read the posts where people say, "oh, it's the internet, you're going to get hacked," as if that is some sort of excuse. People who say, "I've been hacked once or twice a year, it's just expected," is simply ludicrous. As if the struggles you go through by being unscrupulous is the norm.

Hacking, being hacked, having your **** stolen, used, borrowed, is a ZERO TOLERANCE rule. Simply because this is "the internet" and "that **** happens" is NO excuse for it to happen. We, as the consumers, put full trust in the vendors that they are taking actions to stop it from happening. When it does happen, it is not simply something that "you just have to expect," but it is a violation of trust, respect, and integrity.

Being hacked is something that you should never expect or TOLERATE. One violation is one too many.

I understand that there are--literally--billions of people accessing the internet every second. In this ocean of people, yes, there are bound to be many, many sharks. However, aside from proactiivity (or a lack of) on behalf of yourself, there is no excuse for being bitten.

Having people try to steal money from you is inexcusable, and it has been since the dawn of time. Simply because it happened on the internet is no reason to disregard it. If you know there is a place where thieves are targeting (a den of thieves, eh?) then avoiding it is not only scrupulous, it is simply the most intelligent thing to do.

I've never bought from Midwest or Northern Brewer. Because of this thread, I never will. Ever.

Midwest didn't steal from anyone. The hackers did. You can argue about whether Midwest's security measures were up to date, etc, but that's a different matter.

I think the original purpose of this thread has been achieved and its descended into off topic and unfair territory. I'm going to close it and the admins and mods will discuss whether and/or how to let this conversation continue.

 

[Pappers_]

Midwest posted a follow-up announcement at https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/additional-information-midwest-supplies-430638/