Importance of pH for BIAB

[KWheth]

Was researching the importance of obtaining a pH of 5.2-5.4 for AG brewing, and how to effectively reach this level. Since I wanted to get into BIAB, is the importance still there if brewing non Stouts and Porters?

Just curious as I haven't seen any threads on this. Thanks for any input!

 

[shuckit]

I BIAB and I adjust my mash water to keep it within 5.4-5.6 pH. Mostly use lactic acid. My beers have improved lately. That could be a factor.

 

[Yooper]

Yes. The mash pH is crucial, no matter the brewing method or the style of beer.

 

[craigmw]

I just started working to adjust my water, with an eye on getting appropriate salt balance and mash pH. We have quite high phosphates and total alkalinity, so I had been adding CaCl2 to control hop bitterness. Also, I've had some trouble getting proper mash conversion, which has ended up affecting my fermentability. My FG values have just been too high lately.

Using BrewersFriend.com's water chemistry calculator and my water chemistry (downloaded from my water company), this time I used phosphoric acid to adjust the strike water, aiming for a 5.3 pH for mashing. The BrewersFriend calculator takes into account the grain used, as darker grains tend to reduce pH on their own. So, I added CaCl2 as usual, and then the calculated amount of phosphoric acid. I measured my mash pH with a Hanna pH pen (after cooling), and it was at 5.27, quite close to the calculated value.

This beer started at 1.063 and ended at 1.013, pretty much exactly as anticipated. I'm not sure if the adjustment helped, but the mash led to great conversion and attenuation. Also, the malt/hop balance is perfect for this American Amber Ale. I will continue to do such adjustment, as it appears to help.

 

[criticalbrewpath]

OP, mind if i piggy back a question here?

Great, thanks.

I want to do my first biab. I want to do a 5 gallon batch. I do not have a brew pot large enough to hold 5 gallons of water and the required grain. If I balance the ph can I mash my total grain bill for 5 gal batch in say 3-4 gal of water? Maybe do a light sparge and top off the rest of the water needed to 5 gal when I pour into the fermentation bucket? Or will this throw off the ph?

I had done that with extract brews many times. But not payed much if any attention to ph. I know ph is important with AG and BIAB and I want to get it right. Everything I have seen with biab instructs to use the full amount of water. I have been assuming this was for ph reasons but can't find and answer.

 

[KWheth]

OP, mind if i piggy back a question here?

No worries, ask away. I know some of these folks will be able to clear up what you are looking for.

Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[RM-MN]

OP, mind if i piggy back a question here?

Great, thanks.

I want to do my first biab. I want to do a 5 gallon batch. I do not have a brew pot large enough to hold 5 gallons of water and the required grain. If I balance the ph can I mash my total grain bill for 5 gal batch in say 3-4 gal of water? Maybe do a light sparge and top off the rest of the water needed to 5 gal when I pour into the fermentation bucket? Or will this throw off the ph?

I had done that with extract brews many times. But not payed much if any attention to ph. I know ph is important with AG and BIAB and I want to get it right. Everything I have seen with biab instructs to use the full amount of water. I have been assuming this was for ph reasons but can't find and answer.

Your major problem will be the need to boil all the wort before you put it in the fermenter. If you don't boil it, you will introduce the bacterial that was on the grain to the fermenter and your yeast may not be able to outcompete them, ruining your beer.

If you plan to do all grain, you have choices, bigger kettle/burner to be able to boil the 6 to 7 gallons of wort collected to boil down to the 5 to 5.5 gallons going into the fermenter, doing a mash to collect a concentrated wort, boil it and then use top up water like you have been for extract, or you can reduce the size of the batch to fit your 5 gallon pot. I do the last option because it works out so well on my kitchen stovetop.

 

[fearwig]

If you want to do a 5-gallon batch of e.g. 1.045 ale, but you have e.g. a kettle suitable for 3 gallons, you mash for 3 gallons of 1.075 wort (5/3 desired OG). You boil that wort with 5-gallon mineral and hop additions (round hops up slightly for utilization loss if you do this at super high gravity). Boil-off rate is irrelevant here, boil to your hops- or grain-related requirements. When you are done, top off to five gallons, chill, rack, pitch. Partial-boil AG.

There are losses to mash efficiency and hop utilization compared to a mash and boil at your full 5-gallon OG, especially as you get up around 1.100, but the loss is modest and you'll make a lot more beer for your time. This is ideal for session beers. I make 9-12 gal batches of small beers In a 7-gal tun-kettle.

If anyone tells you this is "diluting your beer", ask them what sparging is, and offer them a homebrew.

 

[dobe12]

OP, mind if i piggy back a question here?

Great, thanks.

I want to do my first biab. I want to do a 5 gallon batch. I do not have a brew pot large enough to hold 5 gallons of water and the required grain. If I balance the ph can I mash my total grain bill for 5 gal batch in say 3-4 gal of water? Maybe do a light sparge and top off the rest of the water needed to 5 gal when I pour into the fermentation bucket? Or will this throw off the ph?

I had done that with extract brews many times. But not payed much if any attention to ph. I know ph is important with AG and BIAB and I want to get it right. Everything I have seen with biab instructs to use the full amount of water. I have been assuming this was for ph reasons but can't find and answer.

10 gallon pot on Amazon $50. Buy it!

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001CHKL68/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

This is what I use for BIAB. I have a second 7.5 pot that I use as a dunk/sparge pot. Moving to a 10 gal pot has made all the difference in the world. I can mash more grain, do full boils without watching boil overs, get a nice rolling boil going, etc. And only $50... so worth it.

 

[fearwig]

10-gal for $50! That's nice, dobe! Nice and broad, too. Now I can make 20-gallon batches...

Hey this isn't bad, either: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001PZ7K7A/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Even the 25-gal model is only $80 shipped. Wonder how many burners I can fit that over (when I'm kicked out of the house).

 

[vNmd]

I BIAB and I adjust my mash water to keep it within 5.4-5.6 pH. Mostly use lactic acid. My beers have improved lately. That could be a factor.

Do you adjust pH during the mash or after? If during at what point? I have just started adjusting but do it after the grains have been removed.

 

[fearwig]

You should do it while the grains are in there, but if you want to get a good idea of where your pH is already you should do it after they've been sitting there a minute (otherwise pH is still dropping on its own). Sometimes I put a pinch of acid in before I dough-in because I have an idea of how much I need already. Mash pH doesn't have to be super precise. Last mash I realized I'd left my pH meter on and the batteries were dead, so I eyeballed it--not ideal, but I've done it enough times to know about how many "pinches" I need, what the wort should taste like, and so on.

If you sparge in any way be sure to acidify your sparge water similarly (I know some BIAB people do full-volume and some don't).

 

[fearwig]

Was researching the importance of obtaining a pH of 5.2-5.4 for AG brewing, and how to effectively reach this level. Since I wanted to get into BIAB, is the importance still there if brewing non Stouts and Porters?

Just curious as I haven't seen any threads on this. Thanks for any input!

I should have responded to OP first! Dark grains are more acidic and lower your pH by themselves, so you usually need less acidification when brewing dark beers, but the target is always roughly 5.2-5.4 (just think "low fives" and you're fine, though, precision is not necessary here).

Remember to adjust for temperature, too. Mash-temp mash reads about 0.2 higher than room temp, you're looking for a reading of roughly 5.4-5.6. I don't use papers but I gather the adjustment is the same.

 

[vNmd]

You should do it while the grains are in there, but if you want to get a good idea of where your pH is already you should do it after they've been sitting there a minute (otherwise pH is still dropping on its own).

Thanks. Of course I was doing it wrong, but still learning. I can't wait until my next brew I will check a minute or two after mash in.

Thanks again

 

[Larzean]

Does the ph stabilizer stuff work well? (http://www.midwestsupplies.com/5-2-mash-stabilizer.html)

I guess the ph stuff is my next area of research...


Sent from my iPhone using the Home Brew Talk App

 

[ram5ey]

No the 5.2 is pretty worthless.

 

[Larzean]

No the 5.2 is pretty worthless.

Good to know, thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using the Home Brew Talk App

 

[fearwig]

I have not used it, but the consensus seems to be it's crap (edit: oops, I see someone just replied and said that). It's a pH buffer, so for it to work you'd need it in much larger quantities than they claim (or than you'd want to use). You're better off adjusting with lactic or citric acid, or aciduated malt (which is really just malt with lactic acid--I prefer powdered acid so I can adjust on the fly).

 

[haeffnkr]

Hello,
Some suggestions regarding the ph question -

Use the excel sheet here -
http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/

Put in your recipe and your water numbers and it will tell you the ph numbers.
I use RO/DI water and build it back up as needed.

Note - using RO water was one of the best things I have done to improve the quaulity of my beers. Staring with the "blank slate" and building as needed is huge in regards to controlling the outcome/taste/quality of my beers.

These steps will get your mash to the correct ph level and improve your beers.

good luck, Kevin

 

[Norselord]

Necromancy

What about doing an acid rest at 95F instead of adding lactic acid? Is this technique out-dated, or only used if you are a super-strict interpreter of the reinheitsgebot?

 

[bionut]

An acid rest should last at least a few hours to make a visible change in the ph of the mash. From what in understand the idea behind it is that in a acid rest the lactobacillus that covers the grains has a head start and produce a little lactic acid, until you ramp up the temperature and kill it. So why mess with this time comsuming method just to get the same cheap acid that you can add directly? Maybe if you didn't have any lactic acid on hand it would be a good way to get it.