Imperial IPA, Small Batch - Looking for Feedback

[andyhank]

Hey guys. Long time reader, first time poster. I've been homebrewing for a while and recently made the switch to all grain. I want to make a high abv Imperial IPA to make it through the chilling autumn and could use some advice. Using Beersmith, this is the recipe I have devised. I have a 5 gallon mash tun, hence the small batch of a big beer.

Grain:
6 lbs. Pale Malt (2 Row)
5 lbs. Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L
2 lbs. Amber Dry Extract, just to raise the ABV

Hops:
1 oz. Chinook at Mash
1 oz. Citra at 60 min. boil
1 oz. Centennial at 30 min. boil
1 oz. Galaxy at 5 min. boil
1 oz Galaxy to dry hop during primary fermentation

Other:
1 Package White Labs American Ale Yeast
Irish Moss at 10 min. boil

End of Boil Volume: 4.17 gal
Final Bottling Volume: 3.28 gal

Est. OG: 1.097 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.018 SG
Est ABV: 10.6%
Bitterness: 91.2 IBU's

I appreciate any advice. I'm very new to this so please tell me anything you think would be helpful, and don't hold back. Thanks for reading

 

[Battles4Seattle]

5 pounds of crystal is way too much. You want to get that down a lot, like to 5%.

For the hop schedule I personally wouldn't bitter with Citra and rather use that as a late addition or dry hope. I'd dry hop with 4 oz and increase the late additions. This is a big beer so 100 ibus or more would probably be good.

I'd also move the 30 minute addition to 20 minutes.

 

[Battles4Seattle]

You'll also want to make a starter. Look at Mrmalty.com to see how much yeast to pinch.

 

[andyhank]

Thanks. What would you recommend instead of all that crystal? I was trying to keep the grain bill simple so I could start to get a feel for my preferences. Also, what purpose does a yeast starter serve? I'm not familiar with them.

 

[matt08wrx]

Use some Munich instead of all Crystal. Use Pale 2 row like 9lb and add around 1lb of munich or crystal if you want. Or for more abv use more 2 row, I like to add dextrose in my ipas for drier finish.

 

[Yooper]

I'd skip the amber DME (which also has crystal malt in it), and use some corn sugar to thin the body of the beer as well as increase the ABV. If you really want to use DME, use light or extra light.

I'd use no more than 5-8% crystal malt, and use mostly base malt. You can use some character malt like Munich, but my favorite IIPA grainbills are more like this:

12 pounds base malt
1 pound light crystal. You could even use 8 oz of carapils and 8 oz of crystal 20L, as an example, but not more. If you like a sweeter IIPA, you could use a bit of honey malt (say, .25 pound) instead of some of the crystal.
1 pound corn sugar (or honey) at the end of the boil

 

[Battles4Seattle]

A starter is where you put the package of yeast in a small bit of wort to build up the yeast. Look into it to it on here and find how to do it.

If you only pinch 1 pack of yeast with that high of a OG you risk over stressing the yeast. Doing that may stall fermentation and you beer could finish very sweet.

If you don't want to make a starter you have to pinch more than 1 package of yeast, believe you'd need 3 packs for that gravity but Mr malty will tell you. You can also use S05 dry yeast and that may be easier.

 

[andyhank]

A starter is where you put the package of yeast in a small bit of wort to build up the yeast. Look into it to it on here and find how to do it.

If you only pinch 1 pack of yeast with that high of a OG you risk over stressing the yeast. Doing that may stall fermentation and you beer could finish very sweet.

If you don't want to make a starter you have to pinch more than 1 package of yeast, believe you'd need 3 packs for that gravity but Mr malty will tell you. You can also use S05 dry yeast and that may be easier.

That's good to know. I've had some big beers in the past that have finished overly sweet and I wonder if not using a starter is why. I did a little research on this site and have some idea of how to use one. Do I add the entire yeast package into the DME solution?

 

[andyhank]

Here's my proposed changes:

Grain Bill
8 oz. Caramel/Crystal Malt
1 lb. Munich Malt
11 lbs. Pale 2 Row Malt

Hop Schedule
1 oz. Chinook at Mash
1 oz. Warrior at 60 min.
1 oz. Centennial at 20 min.
1 oz. Citra at 15 min.
1 oz. Galaxy at 5 min.
4 oz. Galaxy dry hop during primary fermentation

With these changes, it brings my IBU's up to 129. I still need to resolve how to get the ABV up if I don't use DME, but I like the idea of thinning the body out with something like honey or corn sugar I just have never used them.

I am also planning on using a yeast starter once I figure out exactly how to.

What do you think this beer would taste like? I'm looking for VERY big body and malt backbone, with a bittersweet and slightly fruity hop finish.

 

[Battles4Seattle]

You can add DME just not crystal. What does beersmith or the program you are using say the IBUs are for just the mash and 60 minute? It seems like it may be too high, I'd do just one or the other.

I'd use just warrior to first wort hop (mash) or add at 60 minutes and use Chinook later as well.

 

[RonPopeil]

they way you have your hops setup is kinda crazy. i'm not sure which direction you're trying to go. flavor additions are best reserved for T minus 20 minutes. you only have Galaxy there so i'm going to use that. for what it's worth you can replace anything you put in those time slots with another hop. you have a good amount of bitterness coming from your 60min additions so IBU's shouldn't be a concern.

citra has been hit or miss as a bittering hop. some say it's fine some don't like it. without throwing my hat into that ring i'll say that citra has very good aromatic properties and would be best suited for those situations. flavor/aroma additions or dry hopping would be best. since you're using galaxy for that i'm dropping citra out of the recipe.

2 gallon batch.

7# 2row
.33# C40

mash ~150 for more dryness.

.25 chinook @60
1.0 galaxy @15
1.0 galaxy @ 5

California Ale of some variety.

1.093 OG
1.014 FG
85% attenuation
10.3% ABV
85.5 IBU

you're hoping for a lot of attentuation with this so make a 2L starter. simple process, boil a small amount(.25 cups) of DME in about 2 quarts of water. just let it come to a boil and break up the clumps. drop the pot in a sink full of cold water and let it cool to room temperature. pour into a santized pitcher, pitch yeast and cover with tin foil. can take up to 4 days for yeast to settle to the bottom. once that happens pour off the beer it made and you have your yeast.

if you're having trouble hitting your FG don't be alarmed. you can try adding a touch of sugar, like 2oz, but generally cali ale tops out around 12%. without much headroom between it's ceiling and where you're going you may have to take what you get.
if you want some piney funky notes you can dry hop with your .75oz of left over chinook. it won't add bitterness just aroma/flavor.

 

[eltorrente]

Grain:
6 lbs. Pale Malt (2 Row)
5 lbs. Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L
2 lbs. Amber Dry Extract, just to raise the ABV

Hops:
1 oz. Chinook at Mash
1 oz. Citra at 60 min. boil
1 oz. Centennial at 30 min. boil
1 oz. Galaxy at 5 min. boil
1 oz Galaxy to dry hop during primary fermentation

Oh boy.. O.k., first of all, don't feel bad getting critiques. I also applaud you making your own recipe. There's some serious issues here, though.

First of all - as has been stated 5lbs of crystal is unbelievably high. 1/2 lb is generally plenty of crystal, though up to 1lb is fine since you have plenty of bitterness to counteract the sweetness.

If you are using a 5gallon mash tun, 11lbs total is smart, since you'll probably have to add boiling water or cold water to adjust your temp. I wouldn't use anything other than light dried malt extract. Amber malt, and especially dark malt extract imparts a caramelly flavor, that you don't want or need. Get the flavor and color you need from your normal grains, and use DME to boost your gravity.

After over 17 years of brewing and countless batches of IPA's, I would recommend IBU's mostly from your initial bittering addition, then go for hop flavor with additions that boil no more than 5 minutes. If I was only going to use 3 ounces of flavor hops to an IPA, I would maybe add 1 ounce to boil for 1 minute, then the other 2 ounces after the boil was done and the steam had stopped.

For an IPA with over 90IBU's, I would use at least 6 ounces of flavor hops to balance it. Add 1 ounce for 5 minutes, 1 ounce for 2 minutes, 1 ounce for 1 minute, then the other 3 ounces after the boil. Trust me - you'll get a great flavor that way. The oils boil away so quickly, so don't even bother with anything over 5 minutes if you want flavor. I'm a complete hop fanatic, and I've tried every method, and the later you add them the better.

Also - 1 ounce of dry hops is nothing. Use at least 3 ounces for dry hopping - but for this beer, use 5 ounces. Don't be afraid to use hops, especially in an IPA with over 90 IBU's.

 

[Yooper]

Here's my proposed changes:

Grain Bill
8 oz. Caramel/Crystal Malt
1 lb. Munich Malt
11 lbs. Pale 2 Row Malt

Hop Schedule
1 oz. Chinook at Mash
1 oz. Warrior at 60 min.
1 oz. Centennial at 20 min.
1 oz. Citra at 15 min.
1 oz. Galaxy at 5 min.
4 oz. Galaxy dry hop during primary fermentation

With these changes, it brings my IBU's up to 129. I still need to resolve how to get the ABV up if I don't use DME, but I like the idea of thinning the body out with something like honey or corn sugar I just have never used them.

I am also planning on using a yeast starter once I figure out exactly how to.

What do you think this beer would taste like? I'm looking for VERY big body and malt backbone, with a bittersweet and slightly fruity hop finish.

If you want big body, (most IIPAs are the opposite), using DME to bring up the OG where you want it will work fine.

I just did a late-hopped IPA myself with galaxy- it's earthier than I expected so maybe consider that in your recipe. Otherwise, I like it.

 

[andyhank]

Oh boy.. O.k., first of all, don't feel bad getting critiques. I also applaud you making your own recipe. There's some serious issues here, though.

First of all - as has been stated 5lbs of crystal is unbelievably high. 1/2 lb is generally plenty of crystal, though up to 1lb is fine since you have plenty of bitterness to counteract the sweetness.

If you are using a 5gallon mash tun, 11lbs total is smart, since you'll probably have to add boiling water or cold water to adjust your temp. I wouldn't use anything other than light dried malt extract. Amber malt, and especially dark malt extract imparts a caramelly flavor, that you don't want or need. Get the flavor and color you need from your normal grains, and use DME to boost your gravity.

After over 17 years of brewing and countless batches of IPA's, I would recommend IBU's mostly from your initial bittering addition, then go for hop flavor with additions that boil no more than 5 minutes. If I was only going to use 3 ounces of flavor hops to an IPA, I would maybe add 1 ounce to boil for 1 minute, then the other 2 ounces after the boil was done and the steam had stopped.

For an IPA with over 90IBU's, I would use at least 6 ounces of flavor hops to balance it. Add 1 ounce for 5 minutes, 1 ounce for 2 minutes, 1 ounce for 1 minute, then the other 3 ounces after the boil. Trust me - you'll get a great flavor that way. The oils boil away so quickly, so don't even bother with anything over 5 minutes if you want flavor. I'm a complete hop fanatic, and I've tried every method, and the later you add them the better.

Also - 1 ounce of dry hops is nothing. Use at least 3 ounces for dry hopping - but for this beer, use 5 ounces. Don't be afraid to use hops, especially in an IPA with over 90 IBU's.

I really like that hop advice. Your 17 years of experience trumps mine by a mile so I'm going with that.

What do you think of this hop schedule? Beersmith has it coming out to 117 IBU's.

1 oz. Chinook at Mash
2 oz. Chinook at 60
.5 oz Citra at 50
1 oz. Centennial at 2
3 oz. Galaxy after boil/flameout
5 oz. Galaxy Dry Hop in Primary

 

[eltorrente]

I really like that hop advice. Your 17 years of experience trumps mine by a mile so I'm going with that.

What do you think of this hop schedule? Beersmith has it coming out to 117 IBU's.

1 oz. Chinook at Mash
2 oz. Chinook at 60
.5 oz Citra at 50
1 oz. Centennial at 2
3 oz. Galaxy after boil/flameout
5 oz. Galaxy Dry Hop in Primary

First I should say that I've never used Galaxy before, but I read about them and they sound pretty good.

That looks good to me. You will definitely be able to taste them and get a great feel for their character and aroma.

EDIT- Now that I think about it, you may want to move your Citra addition down to 20 minutes or so, then bump it up to an ounce. Boiling it for less time with more of them will give you more character, plus you'll still get a bump in IBU's out of them. Not totally necessary, but boiling for 50minutes will lose most of their character.

I really love Centennial, btw.

On another note, I've been formulating a 2xIPA recipe that I'm anxious to try. It will have the most hops that I've ever used. My previous record (for 5 gallons) was 13 ounces of hops (and it was friggin amazing). This recipe calls for a nice even 1lb of hops total.

My hop additions are:
2 ounces Warrior (first wort hops)
10 minutes - 1 ounce Citra
5 minutes - 1 ounce Citra
2 minutes - 1ounce Citra, 1 ounce Nelson Sauvin
Post Boil (around 180degrees) - 2 ounces Chinook, 2 ounces Nelson Sauvin
Dry Hop - 4 ounces Chinook, 2 ounces Columbus

Grains are:
13lbs Marris Otter
1 lb Munich 10L (Briess)
1/2 lb Crystal 20
1/2 lb Crystal 60
Yeast: WYeast 1272
Mash temp - 152

Based on 85% efficiency - 9.0% alcohol, and 138IBU's

I just love hops, so it was a natural thing to just say, "F*#k it! I'll brew one up with an entire pound of hops!" - and it will be good!

 

[RonPopeil]

I really like that hop advice. Your 17 years of experience trumps mine by a mile so I'm going with that.

What do you think of this hop schedule? Beersmith has it coming out to 117 IBU's.

1 oz. Chinook at Mash
2 oz. Chinook at 60
.5 oz Citra at 50
1 oz. Centennial at 2
3 oz. Galaxy after boil/flameout
5 oz. Galaxy Dry Hop in Primary

i don't understand your 50 minute addition with citra. what are you trying to accomplish?

just to put something out in the open here. hop flavors boil/cook off. for most people adding hops prior to 30 minutes results in little to no flavor. just bitterness. for flavor most add hops around 15, 10 and 5 minutes as well as flameout and dry hopping.

if you're trying to layer your hop flavors i would add a significant amount of citra at 15 along with a smaller amount of centennial and then at 5 minutes switch and add a large amount of centennial along with a small amount of citra. this will be centennial dominant as you've added mostly centennial in your last addition. it's also good to play with ratios when doing this as a way to build complex hop flavors.

 

[jack_a_roe]

if you were trying to to shed some ibus. split your 60 addition in half, one at 60 one at 45. then add all your late additions later. centennial at 15, citra at 10, galaxy at 1 or flameout. see if that gets you closer to where you wanna be. at work so i can't check where it falls in brewsmith.

i just had to do the same in a iipa recipe i'm going to make soon. something like 1 oz of galaxy and .25 oz centennial FWH, 1/5 oz warrior at 60 and 45, 1 oz centennial at 15 and 1. drops me in around around the mid 90 ibu range. also has a pretty large grain bill, something like 1.085 OG.

 

[andyhank]

Brew went well, even better considering it was fueled by Zombie Dust - awesome beer. My OG came in at 1.10 so I actually exceeded my efficiency estimation and am happy with that. The only issue is that I dry hopped too early (it's my first time doing it) and tossed in 4 oz. of Galaxy the day after pitching. I really hope I didn't waste those precious hops, was that too early to dry hop?

 

[matt08wrx]

Brew went well, even better considering it was fueled by Zombie Dust - awesome beer. My OG came in at 1.10 so I actually exceeded my efficiency estimation and am happy with that. The only issue is that I dry hopped too early (it's my first time doing it) and tossed in 4 oz. of Galaxy the day after pitching. I really hope I didn't waste those precious hops, was that too early to dry hop?

Yeah a bit early. You will still get added aroma but not as much as if you waited until ferm was done. I usually wait 5-7 days after pitching depending on what type of beer.

 

[eltorrente]

Yeah, you definitely added the dry hops way too early. You should have added them after your yeast dropped out and the beer started to clear - like around 10-14 days after pitching.

Oh well - no big deal. It won't ruin the beer or anything. Plenty of time to buy some more and add them later. Even if you don't add more, the beer should still taste good, but it won't have the aroma you are after.