Imperial Carrot Cake Ale - Thoughts?

[ConorO]

I'll be trying my third batch of brew at the end of this month, and I invited my older brother to join me so that I might show him how a mediocre brewer "do." I offered a few ideas as to what we might attempt, and he came at me with a curveball . . . carrot cake. As an avid fan of carrot cake, as well as beer, I figured that we could give this idea a shot. Below is a prospective grain bill that I just threw together. I have no experience with this so please feel free to tear it apart and/or contribute your own findings/ideas.

We're going for a brown ale base, at a rather high ABV (~9.5%), a full body, plenty of sweetness, and nice mouthfeel (dessert beer). However, I have a feeling there is too great a quantity of specialty malt. Would you please lend me your wisdom?

Amended Prospective grain bill (5Gal - 1/2 recipe for 2.5 Gal):

Est. SG with a full-body mash at 158F and Safale US-05
OG 1.097
FG 1.026

15 lbs Pale Malt
2 lbs Crystal 60
8oz Victory Malt
4oz Chocolate Malt


Hops: 23 IBUs
1oz Fuggle 60 min
1oz Fuggle 20 min
10z Fuggle 10 min

Extras: (not sure when to add these)
2-4 cups carrot juice
Spice extract: cinnamon, allspice, nutmeg steeped in vodka for several weeks - added to taste.
Vanilla Bean extract done in vodka
Walnut extract done in vodka?

What am I missing? What would you do? Is the FG indicative of what one might call a dessert beer? What might be a good way to balance a sweet, spicy beer with a rich mouthfeel?

 

[Bosh]

Think I heard of a carrot cake recipe that used a HUGE amount of carrot juice at flameout (i.e. from like 20 pound of carrots). Would definitely use that over throwing some whole carrots in the boil.

And yeah, way way way too many specialty malts, that'll be syrupy sweet. Will leave it to people who know more than me to recommend how much. My read would be cut the crystal down by at least 2/3 and go. Imperial ales tend to have a good bit of residual sugars anyway since it's hard to get yeast to dry out a really really big beer so you don't need to go about adding more.

Hops?

 

[Singletrack]

I suggest a smaller batch! Good luck. I'm sure you will have fun with this.

 

[ConorO]

I suggest a smaller batch! Good luck. I'm sure you will have fun with this.

Certainly a sound call! Thank you very much - I'll need it!

Think I heard of a carrot cake recipe that used a HUGE amount of carrot juice at flameout (i.e. from like 20 pound of carrots). Would definitely use that over throwing some whole carrots in the boil.

And yeah, way way way too many specialty malts, that'll be syrupy sweet. Will leave it to people who know more than me to recommend how much. My read would be cut the crystal down by at least 2/3 and go. Imperial ales tend to have a good bit of residual sugars anyway since it's hard to get yeast to dry out a really really big beer so you don't need to go about adding more.

Hops?

I included the hops above. Thank you for the insight - I'll put up an amended grain bill. That bit about the Imperial ales was certainly needed.

 

[Bosh]

Take my advice with a grain of salt since I've never brewed a beer with more than 8% of so ABV but whenever I read threads about people making imperial ales they're all about people struggling and struggling to get the damn gravity down so it won't be so sweet. Now you WANT a sweet imperial beer so all you have to do to make it sweet, AFAIK, is sit back and not take any special steps to bring down the gravity (repitching, adding extra oxygen etc. etc. etc.). I'd continue to step back from the steps you've put in specifically to make it sweeter as it'll probably be too sweet for me with just base malt and the probable relatively low attenuation you're going to get.

How far to step back is hard to tell since I don't know this style of beer well, but I'm sure someone who does will pop in eventually.

 

[zoomzilla]

I actually don't see a need for any carrots or carrot juice. The spices that give carrot cake its distinctive flavor are what will flavor your beer. I suppose carrot juice could be used for coloring or to raise the abv as I'm sure it has lots of sugar.

 

[ConorO]

Take my advice with a grain of salt since I've never brewed a beer with more than 8% of so ABV but whenever I read threads about people making imperial ales they're all about people struggling and struggling to get the damn gravity down so it won't be so sweet. Now you WANT a sweet imperial beer so all you have to do to make it sweet, AFAIK, is sit back and not take any special steps to bring down the gravity (repitching, adding extra oxygen etc. etc. etc.). I'd continue to step back from the steps you've put in specifically to make it sweeter as it'll probably be too sweet for me with just base malt and the probable relatively low attenuation you're going to get.

How far to step back is hard to tell since I don't know this style of beer well, but I'm sure someone who does will pop in eventually.

I've never brewed a "sweet" beer before . . . but I would like this to be quite the dessert beer. Thank you for your input - some knowledge is better than none at all. We'll see if any brewers with experience in this area care to step in.

I actually don't see a need for any carrots or carrot juice. The spices that give carrot cake its distinctive flavor are what will flavor your beer. I suppose carrot juice could be used for coloring or to raise the abv as I'm sure it has lots of sugar.

I'll probably juice some carrots for the sake of the color and added sugars. Just a touch of that carrot sweetness would be preferable.

 

[AK7007]

Subscribed - sounds like a fascinating experiment.

 

[ConorO]

I actually don't see a need for any carrots or carrot juice. The spices that give carrot cake its distinctive flavor are what will flavor your beer. I suppose carrot juice could be used for coloring or to raise the abv as I'm sure it has lots of sugar.

Also, do you think some lactic acid should be involved in this recipe in order to simulate a mild "tartness" so-often sought after in cream cheese frosting?

 

[h0psnobery]

I'm going to assume that the C-120 is for the raisin flavor and color, the victory is for a bread or cake flavor, and the chocolate is for color. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I would for sure cut the lactose. With a high OG wort you will more than likely finish with a decently high FG and plenty of body. I would sub Golden Naked Oats for the C-120. It should add a creamy mouth feel along with fruity and nutty flavors. If the chocolate is just for color, I would use something like dehusked carafa III instead, but if you want the roast and chocolate flavors keep it in. Also, it's very easy to overdo spices. Maybe add them straight to the keg or a little at a time to the bottling bucket? Good luck!

 

[ConorO]

I'm going to assume that the C-120 is for the raisin flavor and color, the victory is for a bread or cake flavor, and the chocolate is for color. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I would for sure cut the lactose. With a high OG wort you will more than likely finish with a decently high FG and plenty of body. I would sub Golden Naked Oats for the C-120 (now C-60). It should add a creamy mouth feel along with fruity and nutty flavors. If the chocolate is just for color, I would use something like dehusked carafa III instead, but if you want the roast and chocolate flavors keep it in. Also, it's very easy to overdo spices. Maybe add them straight to the keg or a little at a time to the bottling bucket? Good luck!

Thanks for chiming in! I don't believe I have access to Golden Naked Oats, but I will check with the local shop through whom I do my ordering. As for the C-120, victory, and chocolate malts the flavor profiles you listed are fairly spot-on. However, I originally thought of the chocolate malt for both its flavor and color.

In regards to residual sweetness, if I add no lactose, how high of an OG do I need to make this thing taste like a dessert beer? Like a slice of Carrot Cake? I don't have access to a wide array of yeasts, but I've been using a lot of Safale US-05. Should I use a standard ale yeast or a "big beer" yeast for this monster? I don't want to dry it out if I'm using no lactose . . .

As for the spices, I was thinking of making a spice extract and adding it during the secondary stage or at bottling: 1-2oz of a fall spice blend and a vanilla bean steeping in vodka for two weeks or so. With such a method I could hopefully get maximal flavor with minimal tannin/off-flavor.

 

[FatsSchindee]

Do you ever brew this? If so, how'd it turn out? I've been toying with the idea of a Carrot Cake Ale and just started researching... Yours was the first thread to pop up here...