immersion vs. plate chiller - I've only ever used immersion

[Clintos]

Howdy. I've just recently gotten back into homebrewing. I just posted on these forums about my biggest pain point and got some great responses, soooo, I figure I'll post about my second biggest pain point:

It takes me about 25-30 minutes to chill my wort with an immersion chiller, and I'd like to reduce that time. I am doing 5 gallon batches. I recently read that a plate chiller is WAY better, but I'd like to here from the group. Should I get a plate chiller? What are the biggest pros/cons of using a plate chiller vs an immersion chiller?

Thanks!

 

[b-boy]

I have a Blichmann plate chiller.

There are pros and cons to plate chillers.

First, you need a pump. Along with the pump come the various hoses, clamps, and connectors you'll need to tie your system together. Also, I added whirlpool capabilities to my pots, so I can recirculate my chilled wort during the cooling process. It all gets expensive very quickly.

Cleaning is another pain. Plate chillers get dirty. You are pumping wort through the device. You'll need to flush the system out after each use. Occasionally you'll need to do a really thorough cleaning by baking it in an oven to carbonize any residue.

You'll need to filter your wort. Hops will reap havoc on a plate chiller. You need a way to keep them out. I use a false bottom as well as a SS screen hop spider.

Cooling is quick. I can cool 14+ gallons in about 20 minutes. That's worth it to me.

Overall, I'd say plate chillers are a pain, but they are worth it. I still use my immersion chiller for a small batch because it is easy, but when I'm doing 2-3 10 gallon batches, a plate chiller is the way to go.

 

[billybryson54]

I have a Shirron 10 plate chiller. I do like it but if I could do it all over again I'd go with a much larger one, both in its length, and how many plates it has. Mine works well but the flow rate is quite slow, which can be a pain sometimes. Also, as previously stated, if you don't have a method of filtering your hops, don't even bother with a plate chiller. You'll plug it up before wort even makes it to the fermenter.

My typical process is after boil I recirculate hot wort through the lines, pump, and chiller to heat-sanitize for 15 minutes. Then I turn on the chilling water and let it continue to recirculate into the boil kettle until the kettle has reached about 80 degrees, followed by pumping into the fermenter. Nowadays I'm using a homemade counterflow chiller because I was tired of having the plate chiller clog up on me. Even with filtering hops, it does sometimes happen. I'm using a hop bag and a false bottom in my kettle which has pretty much done away with that problem, but the flow rate is still less than optimal for me. My suggestion is that if you are set on getting a plate chiller, get the best one you can afford.

 

[tootal]

When using a plate chiller always recirculate for roughly five minutes before hooking up the chiller. We have a whirlpool set up too and hook our pump directly to it for five minutes, then we pull the line from it and connect it to the chiller and run a line from the chiller to the whirlpool. Now we have the bed set on the false bottom and are getting pretty clear wort into the chiller. We have never clogged the chiller and we are running a Therminator. We can actually run gravity feed through the chiller and into a bucket and get ale temps in one pass but we decided to get a pump so we could whirlpool and put the chilled wort back into the kettle so we capture the hot break too. After 20 minutes we just pull the line off the whirlpool and put it in the fermenter.The wort is very clear into the fermenter.

 

[Rusty2089]

I have a Shirron and only use gravity to transfer beer from the kettle, through the chiller, and into the primary.

I submerge it in sanitizer before hooking it up to the kettle and water hoses (inlet and outlet). Then I turn on the water to check for leaks. Then I open my drain valve on the kettle and let her rip. If it's really hot out (as it usually is in Florida) I'll use an immersion chiller in ice water to chill the inlet water before it runs through the plate chiller.

After use, I use my hose to run water into the wort outlet so it (hopefully) flushes all the nasties out the way they came in. Then I let it soak in my kettle that is at the same time being cleaned with OxyClean. Then I flush it out with clean water. Then I bake it in my toaster over at 400 degrees for 45 minutes.

It sounds like a lot of work, but it's all an afterthought now. I get chilled wort and have had no issues in over 15+ batches with it.

 

[Natdavis777]

I use a plate chiller and love it. Like Rusty, I started out gravity feeding it from the BK through the chiller and into the carboy. Worked well. Then moved on with a pump. I now recirc the wort post boil and chill the 10gal as a whole, then runoff into my carboys. After Im done, I clean the BK, and run my pbw solution through the pump and chiller for 5 min or so while I aerate and place the carboys in the ferm chamber. I will then dump the chiller in my star san bucket, and thats it. Ive baked it before due to a bunch of hop matter getting in, but I now use a stainless hop spider so no more hop matter makes it out of the kettle.

I will say it takes a few brews to get used to, but in the end, its worth it.

 

[paperairplane]

I don't see any time savings with a plate vs immersion. In fact, given the extra filtering and cleaning time it looks like more work.

Now for those doing 10+ gallons, I can see some benefit - but this is big money to add a plate and pump to a setup.

 

[dobes]

I've used both I like the plate chiller a bit more mainly cause it is built into my system. As far as cleaning I don't think it's a big deal. I pump cleaner and rinse water through it. Then between brews I just throw it in the oven when cooking dinner. Plus I do 10 gallon batches and it's way quicker than an IC.

 

[jmcquesten]

I know it's not one of the choices, but what about a counter flow chiller? I don't have a plate chiller, but I did build a counter flow chiller a while back and I love it. It was fairly inexpensive to build, works well, and is easy to clean. It's best to have a pump and whirlpool back into bk, but not necessary. I did a test run gravity feeding from boil kettle to bucket and went from boiling to about 75 in one pass in about 15 minutes. I don't gravity feed now though. I use a pump and recirc to whirlpool. I think the last batch went from boiling to around 60 in about 20-25 minutes.

 

[augiedoggy]

I don't see any time savings with a plate vs immersion. In fact, given the extra filtering and cleaning time it looks like more work.

Now for those doing 10+ gallons, I can see some benefit - but this is big money to add a plate and pump to a setup.

Have you used a plate chiller or are you going by what you've read? I have owned and used both and would not go back to an immersion chiller... they took forever and require constant mixing or they are even slower.
the only advantage to the immersion chiller is you dont have to prefilter your wort and the its easy to leave the cold break material when draining the kettle.

apparently I do a good job if filtering because I have no issues with solids making way into my chiller... I Do pump a few gallons of pbw mix through my plumbing,rims,pumps and chiller recirculating for 20-30 minutes and then a water rinse but thats it.
That said everyones systems and routines are different some as Kal always says YMMV...

 

[govner1]

I know it's not one of the choices, but what about a counter flow chiller? I don't have a plate chiller, but I did build a counter flow chiller a while back and I love it. It was fairly inexpensive to build, works well, and is easy to clean. It's best to have a pump and whirlpool back into bk, but not necessary. I did a test run gravity feeding from boil kettle to bucket and went from boiling to about 75 in one pass in about 15 minutes. I don't gravity feed now though. I use a pump and recirc to whirlpool. I think the last batch went from boiling to around 60 in about 20-25 minutes.

^^^This!

 

[Homercidal]

I have used a CFC pretty much exclusively. I've thought about upgrading to a Plate Chiller, but the things I dislike about a CFC are pretty much the same things I'd dislike about a PC.

Namely I dislike the fact that it can clog easily. I brew with a lot of hops often and I tend to get stuff in the wort that can plug the chiller hoses. This may not be a problem for everyone, but I just want to get rid of the potential. With a 3/8" line I find even hop pellets can bunch up and clog the line.

I would also like to be able to SEE if the chiller is clean. I have run a dip tube brush into each end of my CFC and no matter how well I think I am rinsing, I always get dark gunk to rinse out after a few batches.

The bottom line for me is that a decent IC with recirculation is going to be only slightly less efficient and if I can greatly reduce the clogging potential and nearly eliminate the clean-up process, I am farther ahead.

That said, a lot of people get great results for all 3 devices and they all work well.

 

[HollisBT]

I have used plate chillers exclusively in the past, but this year I decided to try the jaded hydra.

I sold my plate chiller.

The hydra is easier to clean, easier to use, and chills just as well. Plus, there is no need to hassle with a filter of any sort.

 

[FuriousE]

If its taking 30 minutes to chill 5 gallons using an IC, you've either got really warm ground water, your chiller is under sized, or you're doing something wrong. My IC takes less than 5 minutes to chill 5 gallons. Make sure you've got the chilling water flow rate as fast as possible, and that you're agitating the wort as you chill (moving the chiller around).

Plate chillers are nice, but as others have said, there are some significant downsides.

 

[user 141939]

If its taking 30 minutes to chill 5 gallons using an IC, you've either got really warm ground water, your chiller is under sized, or you're doing something wrong. My IC takes less than 5 minutes to chill 5 gallons. Make sure you've got the chilling water flow rate as fast as possible, and that you're agitating the wort as you chill (moving the chiller around).

Plate chillers are nice, but as others have said, there are some significant downsides.

It takes me at least that long to chill a 5 gallon batch with my IC. My water is about 50F coming out of the faucet. I have a 25 ft chiller, i whirlpool the wort in the opposite direction of the flow of the water inside the chiller at the start and then cover with a lid after about 20 minutes.

I don't have the water cranked or anything, but it's not like it's a trickle either. I'd say its on about halfway. Sometimes i fill buckets and bring them down to laundry. Because of this I could say I probably use like 30 gallons or more of water.

I think my biggest problem is my pot, it's a thick heavy aluminum pot and I feel like it holds heat like a mofo. I know some people might say thats a benefit to aluminum. But i guess I would disagree. I don't know what i could do with the IC besides make a bigger one, or get a SS pot.

 

[FuriousE]

I don't have the water cranked or anything, but it's not like it's a trickle either. I'd say its on about halfway.

For the minimum cooling time, you will want to turn the water on full blast. You may or may not use more water this way, as more water per minute will be coming out of the faucet, but you will finish cooling faster.

 

[Donal]

For the minimum cooling time, you will want to turn the water on full blast. You may or may not use more water this way, as more water per minute will be coming out of the faucet, but you will finish cooling faster.

have to disagree, to a point. I have water going in to IC at full blast but restrict flow out, lets the water pull more heat out of the wort as it passes thru chiller. doing this has dropped my chill time from 35-40 minutes to 15 (5 gal batch, boiling to 70)

 

[HollisBT]

have to disagree, to a point. I have water going in to IC at full blast but restrict flow out, lets the water pull more heat out of the wort as it passes thru chiller. doing this has dropped my chill time from 35-40 minutes to 15 (5 gal batch, boiling to 70)

This sounds more symptomatic of an undersized chiller...

A longer chiller would have made more effective use of the water and cooled faster. However, since you found a workaround, it is likely that even a larger chiller, in your case, wouldn't yield a cost effective end result.

 

[user 141939]

Ok thanks. I'll try full blast next time.

 

[Homercidal]

Full blast. There is no way keeping partially warmed water in the chiller is making things better.

Keep the wort moving. Setting up a whirlpool and leaving it alone is not helping. You need to get that exchange going and you need to get the hot wort in contact with the cold copper.

The nice thing about the Jaded Hydra is that the water is cold for a short distance before exiting, but there are 3 coils like that so you get more COLD coil in contact, and less hot water staying in the coil. I'd consider building a chiller like that myself. Maybe I will buy some copper with my Xmas money from my mom and sell my CFC.

 

[g-star]

IME, a 50ft immersion chiller with a whirlpool arm and a pump gets wort from boiling to 65F in about 10-15min with 55-60F ground water. Don't have to mess with hop spiders, and they are relatively easy to clean.

Cooling times are lengthened in the summer with warm ground water, but this can be mitigated by using a 25ft pre-chiller in an ice bath. Still won't perform as well as in the winter time.

 

[FuriousE]

I built a 3 coil chiller. The thread is here, if you're interested. I used 3 lengths of 20' copper tubing. Like I said, works very well - Took wort from 198 to 65 in 3:45 with 58 degree ground water, using about 30 gallons of water in the process.

 

[FuriousE]

Cooling times are lengthened in the summer with warm ground water, but this can be mitigated by using a 25ft pre-chiller in an ice bath. Still won't perform as well as in the winter time.

I've heard that pre-chillers are not very effective. Reason being that the difference in temperature between the ground water and the ice bath isn't that much, so not much cold is transferred from the ice bath to the chilling water. I've heard that recirculating ice water is much more effective. I've not tried either one, though, so I can't say for sure.

 

[theck]

I know it's not one of the choices, but what about a counter flow chiller? I don't have a plate chiller, but I did build a counter flow chiller a while back and I love it. It was fairly inexpensive to build, works well, and is easy to clean. It's best to have a pump and whirlpool back into bk, but not necessary. I did a test run gravity feeding from boil kettle to bucket and went from boiling to about 75 in one pass in about 15 minutes. I don't gravity feed now though. I use a pump and recirc to whirlpool. I think the last batch went from boiling to around 60 in about 20-25 minutes.

I picked up a pump and counter flow recently and can't wait to use it. I plan on using my old IC in a bucket of ice before the counter flow, recirculating/whirlpooling, collecting off the side and think it will work very well.

 

[user 141939]

Full blast. There is no way keeping partially warmed water in the chiller is making things better.

Keep the wort moving. Setting up a whirlpool and leaving it alone is not helping. You need to get that exchange going and you need to get the hot wort in contact with the cold copper.

The nice thing about the Jaded Hydra is that the water is cold for a short distance before exiting, but there are 3 coils like that so you get more COLD coil in contact, and less hot water staying in the coil. I'd consider building a chiller like that myself. Maybe I will buy some copper with my Xmas money from my mom and sell my CFC.

The one thing I might add about mine though is that the water exiting the chiller is quite cold pretty early on in the chilling process. It comes out hot for the first couple minutes but then it pretty much feels like cold tap water after that.

However it sounds like I'm being to lazy with my chilling. I'll try to keep the wort moving more and do full blast and see what that gets me. I do still feel like the heat retention abilities of my aluminum pot slows things down a bit.

 

[b-boy]

Keeping the wort moving is really important. Agitate the cliller, stir the wort, or use a pump and whilrpool with an IC. It can cut your cooling time in half.

 

[Homercidal]

The one thing I might add about mine though is that the water exiting the chiller is quite cold pretty early on in the chilling process. It comes out hot for the first couple minutes but then it pretty much feels like cold tap water after that.

However it sounds like I'm being to lazy with my chilling. I'll try to keep the wort moving more and do full blast and see what that gets me. I do still feel like the heat retention abilities of my aluminum pot slows things down a bit.

Yep. It will definitely get cold again, but if you want to cut it back to let it warm up a bit, you are making the chill take longer. It's a trade off.

Really, the important part is getting the wort down below like 140 really fast. After that it's not a problem to let it chill slower. The break has happened and the things that can cause problems (besides bacteria, which IMO is not a concern if you cover the wort and not much a concern in any case) are past.

 

[user 141939]

Right. Looking forward to my next brew to see how much faster I can chill. I'm pretty slow since I'm still new, so usually by the time I'm chilling I'm ready to be done with the whole thing anyways.

 

[paperairplane]

I stir constantly with my immersion chiller and have zero concerns with hot aeration. I don't believe in it.

I have a 25' copper chiller I built and I run the water just fast enough so it doesn't come out boiling hot.

With winter water temps I can get under 90*F in about 8 minutes. Then I close up the fermenter and pop it in the ferm chamber. Once it's cooled to ferm temp, I aerate and pitch yeast.

So for me, chilling takes under 10 minutes and uses about 10 gallons of water, which I save to use for clean up.

 

[Natdavis777]

I stir constantly with my immersion chiller and have zero concerns with hot aeration. I don't believe in it.

I have a 25' copper chiller I built and I run the water just fast enough so it doesn't come out boiling hot.

With winter water temps I can get under 90*F in about 8 minutes. Then I close up the fermenter and pop it in the ferm chamber. Once it's cooled to ferm temp, I aerate and pitch yeast.

So for me, chilling takes under 10 minutes and uses about 10 gallons of water, which I save to use for clean up.

I used to aerate with my IC. I would let it cool for a few minutes, then I would move it up and down in the wort vigorously (kinda sounds dirty) until I hit my pitch temp. Cooled quickly and got the wort oxygenated.

 

[GCPHomebrew]

I use a sump pump (in ice) attached to my IC. Pitching temps in under 10 minutes. No way I will buy anything else. 50' 1/2 copper. 80bucks on Amazon. 40 for the pump at hat our freight.

 

[user 141939]

Oh by the way you all were totally right. I stir constantly and takes about 10 - 15 minutes to cool the wort down. If i stop stirring, the water coming out gets cold. When I start again it starts coming out hot again, so it is quite clear that constant stirring is very important.

 

[brewfarmDan]

regarding stirring. If an immersion chiller is coiled so that almost all tube is in the upper part of the wort that is where the hottest liquid is if not stirred. My thinking is that the greater the temperature differential between the cold coil and hot wort the more efficient the heat transfer. I have a 50' X 3/8 double coil in 12 gallons that is in the upper half of the pot and the bottom of the pot is consdensing and cool to the touch in 5 to 10 minutes with all the heat at the top where the coil is working. I don't stir until I'm ready to check for pitch temp, I run the waste from the coil into a cup with thermometer and when it drops to 70 return I stir and take an actual kettle temp. I like that the coil just needs a quick rinse and it's done.

 

[DesignatedDrinker]

Howdy. I've just recently gotten back into homebrewing. I just posted on these forums about my biggest pain point and got some great responses, soooo, I figure I'll post about my second biggest pain point:

It takes me about 25-30 minutes to chill my wort with an immersion chiller, and I'd like to reduce that time. I am doing 5 gallon batches. I recently read that a plate chiller is WAY better, but I'd like to here from the group. Should I get a plate chiller? What are the biggest pros/cons of using a plate chiller vs an immersion chiller?

Thanks!

stick with the immersion chiller for easy clean up. if you want faster times use a pump and whirlpool your wort around the chiller. I use 50' SS Immersion and whirlpool, go from boil to around 70 degrees in under 10 minutes, that's with pumping ice water through the chiller once its under 120.

I tried the plate chiller and got rid of it, its a pain to clean and adds time to your brew day. A stainless Immersion chiller only requires a few seconds of rinsing and your done.