i just made a starter from dry yeast ??

[davis119]

well didnt search the topic first.
just went ahead and made it .
so i searched and some say its not a good thing....
so what do i do know since im not brewing for a couple days

 

[jeffd10]

Use it?

 

[davis119]

Use it?

i plan on it.....
jw what the big deal is i saw some say to many cells = no good

 

[Tinga]

I wouldn't really worry about it. Normally you wouldnt need to do a starter for dry yeast because a packet contains many more cells than a liquid vial or smack pack. So when you make a starter there are many more cells for the volume of the starter and yeast can get stressed if there are too many cells for the volume available. Also dry yeast really should be dehydrated before pitched into any type of wort. rehydrating allows the yeast to "come back to life" by drawing water across its membrane. if the cells pull sugars across their membranes it can cause stress and death to the cell.

 

[davis119]

I wouldn't really worry about it. Normally you wouldnt need to do a starter for dry yeast because a packet contains many more cells than a liquid vial or smack pack. So when you make a starter there are many more cells for the volume of the starter and yeast can get stressed if there are too many cells for the volume available. Also dry yeast really should be dehydrated before pitched into any type of wort. rehydrating allows the yeast to "come back to life" by drawing water across its membrane. if the cells pull sugars across their membranes it can cause stress and death to the cell.

yeah im seeing that now.... ill pitch it after i brew and then if it doesnt take off ill go get more......

all my reading just dont seem to make sence to me but im a noob so im sure what you said about death to the cell is true

 

[biestie]

You'll be just fine. Over pitching is far more forgiving than under pitching, especially if it's a beer style that doesn't require much yeast character. The only thing I'd say is if you're not brewing for a few days, you should let the starter go for about 18-24 hours and stick it in the fridge. On brew day, decant, let it warm up and pitch.

 

[davis119]

You'll be just fine. Over pitching is far more forgiving than under pitching, especially if it's a beer style that doesn't require much yeast character. The only thing I'd say is if you're not brewing for a few days, you should let the starter go for about 18-24 hours and stick it in the fridge. On brew day, decant, let it warm up and pitch.

Ok well I plan to brew Thursday. And I can see bubbles rising steadily now. So ill let it go another day or two then cool it.
An nah no yeast character needed. Just a red pale ale with the majority of the hops being warrior

 

[Zuljin]

For, what's it been now, 4 years? I have almost always made a starter for dry yeast 12-24 hours in advance. I did it with DME or brown sugar. Worked every time.

This last brew, I was at a new LHBS and mentioned in passing that I was going to make a stater and the guy told me not to. He said it could cause mutations and stress out the yeast. He also said I could get in a situation where the yeast ate all the food and I'd end up with less yeast rather than more as they die off from starvation.

Well, I don't know if any ever mutated. Never looked that close, which would be microscope close. I do know they never starved to death. There was always active fermentation in my starters, big time.

So we talked a bit and I just let it go. Mofo tellin me like I aint never did this before.

So, I come back to HBT and read the wiki. Sho'nuff, wiki confirmed what he said. Glad I wasn't feeling argumentative

All said, you can make starters with dry yeast, you just don't need to. I was doing it for piece of mind as much as for more cells. If it's working in the starter, I know it's good. Mutations and stress? Well, people who did look closer figured that out, so I can't argue.

 

[nanofreak]

i plan on it.....
jw what the big deal is i saw some say to many cells = no good

I would use it. the bigger reason not to make a starter with quality dry yeast is the yeast come in a suspended animation where they have their energy stores at their peak. If you rehydrate them and pitch them, you are doing so at their optimal and healthiest.

You can still pitch your starter, heck if you are worried about over pitching, pitch half of it. Or you can run out and buy a new pack for $3.00. I woulnt stress too much, I would chalk it up as a learning experience.

 

[davis119]

It all sounds like witch craft to me.....
suspended animation, mutations, cannibalism, starvation

I plan to use it.

 

[davis119]

Hey I was just thinking. What is the difference between a starter and just making another batch and reusing the spent yeast cake?
Aren't all those yeasties spent?
or was there still sugar in there so they are just dormant?

 

[davis119]

Hey here is an update I let the starter go for about 36hours then put it in the fridge. Warmed it up 3 days later and pitched. Here's what it looks like after 12hours.



Im sure I would have got the same results just re hydrating but. The starter didn't hurt anything

 

[Newgene]

It's interesting the thread really only had one post answering why you can't. I've actually done a lot of digging on this, and I really haven't read anything on the mutation logic of using dried yeast. I'm just struggling with how the yeast will mutate in the starter, but not in your wort. If it's total count, that would say you could just pitch half the pack or so, and then use that.

If the answer is it truly is "unnecessary" to make a dry yeast starter, then that's a different issue. For example, if you are making a 10 gallon lager, and you already have a pack of dried lager yeast, you could use it. Otherwise, you may need 4 packs of dry lager yeast which would likely be $20. Either that, or you'd make another trip to the HBS. I wonder how the beer would know the difference in multi step starter from a dry pack or a liquid?

I just have never heard a good reason for why you shouldn't make a starter from a dry yeast pack. I even looked in the wiki, but never saw it. Using Mr. Malty, sometimes it says you need 1.1 or 2.1 packs. Making starters are just way too easy to do. As for overpitching, I have had very good results from pitching 2 dry yeast packs in ales, racking onto a yeast cake, and making a starter from large jar of slurry. I just think that if overpitching or wasting time are the only reasons not to make a dry starter, they are good enough in my book. There has to be another reason to make me not make one. Heck, just saving the few dollars is cool to me.

There may be some sound science behind it. I just haven't seen anyone link it or explain it yet. I really would like to know, though.

 

[LonestarHB]

I've had good success both ways- what I think the objection seems to be is not rehydrating before pitching into a starter or any wort. My take away from the book titled Yeast from White and Zainasheff was that under pitching was more common than over pitching and easily corrected by a starter. After reading that I have done a starter and it has served me well.