I just got 94% efficiency!

[Acumen]

I grind at my LHBS, with the gap at its closest setting. Hulls come through fine. No tannins yet. I just grind slowly and evenly and it comes out near flour, but still managable.

Vorlauf for 30 minutes or more at a trickle. I normally cycle the whole batch at least once before sparging. It comes out looking like a gemstone when I finally start removing wort.

Sparge at the same slow pace. The process adds about an hour to the mash, but 94% efficiency is worth it IMHO. 5 gallons reaching 1.081 with only 13# of grain shaves a good amount of long term batch prices.

I talked to one of the brewers at Bluepoint Brewery recently, they get 99.9% efficiency there, taking up to 18 hours to mash/vorlauf/sparge. Next time I have an extra long timeslot available, I will try a 2 hour vorlauf to try and catch them.

 

[Benny Blanco]

99.9%.......riiiiiiiiiiight.....

 

[KYB]

Wow. I thought I read it wasn't good to mash too long, but I dunno, maybe not. What is your MLT setup like? What grain/water ratio do you mash at? I was getting about 75% efficiency, then changed a few things yesterday, one being 1.25 to 1.5 grain/water ratio. I mashed for 90-110 minutes and fly sparged for about 40 minutes (both of which I had done before) and I got 84% efficiency both times. Also my grain was crushed at the LHBS in Louisville. That could have made a difference as well. My other batches have been from Midwest.

 

[Bobby_M]

I was hitting 92% brewhouse with a batch sparge (not 18 hours of sparging, more like 18 minutes). The consensus is that as you progressively get closer to 100%, you're compromising your wort quality. That's why I purposely backed off to about 80%.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

I was hitting 92% brewhouse with a batch sparge (not 18 hours of sparging, more like 18 minutes). The consensus is that as you progressively get closer to 100%, you're compromising your wort quality. That's why I purposely backed off to about 80%.

Man, my 62% efficiency must indicate that the quality of my wort ROCKS!

Yay.

 

[LooyvilleLarry]

99.9....yeah... I went fishing this weekend and caught this 46 lb bass, but it jumped out of my hands as we were taking the picture...

 

[The Pol]

99.9%

Hrmm, I have this island, no one has heard of it, or even knows it exists. I will sell it to you, sight unseen.

BobbyM is right. The first wort, is the highest quality wort. Which is why batch spargers generally have higher quality wort. They may sacrifice a couple points of eff. but they keep the PH low and sugar high in the runnings.

 

[RedBeerMan]

If grain was $5 a pound, it might matter to me. Since it's less than $1, mash efficiency is secondary to quality.

 

[CharlosCarlies]

If grain was $5 a pound, it might matter to me. Since it's less than $1, mash efficiency is secondary to quality.

+ infinity

 

[The Pol]

At 82% it takes 11.5 pounds to get 1.062
At 94% it takes 10.0 pounds to get 1.062

1.5 pounds of grain

50# for $41 = $.82 per pound

$.82 x 1.5 = $1.23

Now consider that you are sacrificing wort quality.

Consider that most people pay $3-$4 per ounce for hops (ouch)

Then consider that some people pay $1-$1.50 per ounce for hops (yippee)

You can save a lot more by getting better hop pricing or utilization than you will in saving 1.5 pounds of grain.

I guess what I am driving at is that there are ways to reduce cost, that dont concurrently reduce the quality of your wort.

 

[krausenmustache]

Isnt a long vorlauf the same as using a RIMS/HERMS recirc system?

 

[bob1852]

$.82 x 1.5 = $1.23

and considering most of us would agree that time is money - is it worth adding an extra hour to your brew day to save $1.23?

I agree with The Pol - save your money buying bulk hops, not trying to reach uber-high efficiency that adds time to your brew day and may comprimise your wort quality....

 

[humann_brewing]

I am happy to be in the 80s and have hit as high as 90% as I did last weekend when I went under my OG slightly but then realized when I filled the fermentor that I had 3/4 of a gallon more than I should have. I really need some sight glass but for all the same reasons that were mentioned, I want to stay under 90% and base my recipes off 85%.

 

[jdieter]

It's time to calibrate your scales and volume measuements.

 

[The Pol]

Isnt a long vorlauf the same as using a RIMS/HERMS recirc system?

RIMS and HERMS are basically like a 60-80 minute vorlauf... yes

 

[lacykay]

we get between 80 and 90% brewhouse everytime using Bobby M's NMODBS

 

[Saccharomyces]

I'm happy with 85-90% consistent efficiency (lower when I use wheat). With big beers the high efficiency keeps the grainbill reasonable so I can justify a 45 minute fly sparge. With small beers I just don't care as long as it's consistent since we are shaving pennies at that point. To avoid oversparging and compromising wort quality on small beers I will runoff as if I am doing a 1.050 beer and then topoff in the kettle. No need to worry about last runnings gravity as it's always well over 1.010. And I am careful to treat my sparge water so I don't have a high pH extracting tannins from the husks...

 

[99blackgt]

90% is ideal for me, i rarely hit it lately though, my mashtun setup needs reworked.

99.9 is BS, even using sugar or LME you're not goign to get 99.9 because of wort eaten by hops or sugars sticking to the bottom of your kettle. I just don't believe that

 

[The Pol]

I grind at my LHBS, with the gap at its closest setting. Hulls come through fine. No tannins yet. I just grind slowly and evenly and it comes out near flour, but still managable.

Vorlauf for 30 minutes or more at a trickle. I normally cycle the whole batch at least once before sparging. It comes out looking like a gemstone when I finally start removing wort.

Sparge at the same slow pace. The process adds about an hour to the mash, but 94% efficiency is worth it IMHO. 5 gallons reaching 1.081 with only 13# of grain shaves a good amount of long term batch prices.

I talked to one of the brewers at Bluepoint Brewery recently, they get 99.9% efficiency there, taking up to 18 hours to mash/vorlauf/sparge. Next time I have an extra long timeslot available, I will try a 2 hour vorlauf to try and catch them.

I didnt catch this before... but what does a vorlauf have to do with efficiency? It is just recirculating....

 

[the_bird]

I'm assuming that he meant a two-hour sparge.

 

[AnonyBrew]

Admit it, you guys are just jealous.

 

[bob1852]

I once got 114% efficiency, but I dialed back my system because I didn't want to make my friends jealous.

 

[ChemE]

I got 92% efficiency once but it was for an oatmeal stout and the mash was damn near stuck. I had to fly sparge across 3:45 on that batch and it produced incredible efficiency. Of course, that was an accident not intentional. When I fly sparge for 60 minutes I get in the mid 80s and that is just fine with me.

 

[scinerd3000]

im only getting around 82. With marris otter having the highest yield of 1.038 /lb and with 5 gallons at 13# of that im only getting around 82% efficiency. am i missing something?

 

[Acumen]

Sorry for the delay, I have been busy and forgot about this thread I started.

I did get 100%.

No joke.

Not a big deal to do either.

I did the same process I discribed earlier. Ground on the minimum setting and then I just recirculared the wort for like 45 minutes before sparging, that is called vorlaufing for whoever was asking if it was a real term.

Just do it until the wort comes out looking like a gem, thats the best way to describe it. You will know when it does.

So far, I can't say if there is a tannin problem as the beer has not had time to condition. It does have a very strong alcohol taste, but it is still in the primary waiting to be bottled so it is green. With 9# grain and 1# lactose it went from 1.07 to 1.024 so 6% ABV, thats allowed to taste strong anyway in my book. Next batch I am going to make with 6# grain and 1# lactose to put it at 4% to see how it comes out.

 

[Acumen]

To answer and ask some question from posts.

I use a converted 5 gallon cooler with a strainer as a false bottom, then rice hulls under the strainer, then a vinyl tube with slits cut in the bottom as a manifold going to the ballvalve.

I am not sure what my exact ratio is, I just add water until the mash feels right.

I mash for about 50 minutes, then vorlauf until the wort comes out gem then start sparging, usually about 45 minutes for the vorlauf and sparge combined.

Is slightly over an hour and a half enough time to ruin my mash?
I would think not since many recipies call for 90 minute mashes anyway.

If anything I am more worried about my crush creating tannins.

My measurements on volume and weight are not exact, they are ballpark, but they are close enough for me to be happy, although with scientific equipment I am probably not at 100%.

Its a big improvement from my first mash with a hydrometer which landed me around 40%

 

[dstar26t]

Where do you get the potential gravity numbers for the grain you're using?

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

I talked to one of the brewers at Bluepoint Brewery recently, they get 99.9% efficiency there, taking up to 18 hours to mash/vorlauf/sparge. Next time I have an extra long timeslot available, I will try a 2 hour vorlauf to try and catch them.

I would think that any overhead costs at this brewery, such as personnel wages,energy costs, yadda yadda would far outweigh getting 99.9% eff. Why take 18hours to brew one batch when they can probably do 3-4 batches in that same time? Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[The Pol]

Sorry for the delay, I have been busy and forgot about this thread I started.

I did get 100%.

No joke.

Not a big deal to do either.

I did the same process I discribed earlier. Ground on the minimum setting and then I just recirculared the wort for like 45 minutes before sparging, that is called vorlaufing for whoever was asking if it was a real term.

Just do it until the wort comes out looking like a gem, thats the best way to describe it. You will know when it does.

So far, I can't say if there is a tannin problem as the beer has not had time to condition. It does have a very strong alcohol taste, but it is still in the primary waiting to be bottled so it is green. With 9# grain and 1# lactose it went from 1.07 to 1.024 so 6% ABV, thats allowed to taste strong anyway in my book. Next batch I am going to make with 6# grain and 1# lactose to put it at 4% to see how it comes out.

Not true... sorry, no way you are getting 100% eff.

Plenty of people grind thier malt fine, and everyone vorlaughs, talk to HERMS or RIMS brewers, that is what they do for anhour during the mash anyway... this will not contribute to 100% eff. Getting 100% conversion eff. maybe, getting 100% lauter eff.? No way, there are NO sugars left in the grist? Come on... you are losing any credibility on this board fast dude.

Going to read something non-fiction....

 

[TommyBoy]

I did get 100%.

No joke.

Not a big deal to do either.

Shouldn't this thread be in the "Extract Brewing" section?

 

[Acumen]

This is where I have gotten my numbers:
The Brewer's Recipe Calculator

The 18 hour thing is true, I was talking to one of the brewmasters at a festival, don't know what else to tell you.

Like I said, I might not have gotten exactly 100%, of course there is always a margin of error. I did put it way up there though. The weight might have been a few percent higher then the recipe, the volume like a few percent lower, but its close enough for me and I will be repeating this method unless tannins become a problem, and it will be my grind that I look at first.

What I want people to take away from this, is that vorlaufing the first runoffs is common and a good thing to do, but recirculating the whole batch is MUCH better and makes a huge difference.

Whats the harm in trying it? Crush the grain to hell, and recirculate for 45 minutes, see for yourself. Just make sure to put liberal hulls over the entire manifold on your tun, I had a few stuck sparges at the beginning while I was working out my method.

 

[TommyBoy]

Didn't realize who you were talking to with the 100% efficiency statement, huh?

That's ok. Everyone makes mistakes.

 

[The Pol]

This is where I have gotten my numbers:
The Brewer's Recipe Calculator

The 18 hour thing is true, I was talking to one of the brewmasters at a festival, don't know what else to tell you.

Like I said, I might not have gotten exactly 100%, of course there is always a margin of error. I did put it way up there though. The weight might have been a few percent higher then the recipe, the volume like a few percent lower, but its close enough for me and I will be repeating this method unless tannins become a problem, and it will be my grind that I look at first.

What I want people to take away from this, is that vorlaufing the first runoffs is common and a good thing to do, but recirculating the whole batch is MUCH better and makes a huge difference.
Whats the harm in trying it? Crush the grain to hell, and recirculate for 45 minutes, see for yourself. Just make sure to put liberal hulls over the entire manifold on your tun, I had a few stuck sparges at the beginning while I was working out my method.

So, HERMS and RIMS brewers should be getting 100% all the time huh? I mean they vorlaugh for 60-90 minutes, much longer than you do. #1... vorlaughing has nothing to do with eff., where you got that notion, I am not sure. It has nothing to do with conversion and nothing to do with getting sugars OUT of the grist. It simply clears the wort. Sorry, it doesnt make a HUGE difference, it has no impact on eff. Your lack of knowlege about this, causes me to be very sceptical of your other claims.

Is this near 100% eff. conversion? Lauter? Or is it Brewhouse eff?

 

[TommyBoy]

This is where I have gotten my numbers:
The Brewer's Recipe Calculator

The 18 hour thing is true, I was talking to one of the brewmasters at a festival, don't know what else to tell you.

Was he dressed up like a clown? Did he make you a giraffe out of balloons when he told you this?

(Sorry but that's funny!)

 

[bob1852]

I did get 100%.

No joke.

My measurements on volume and weight are not exact, they are ballpark, but they are close enough for me to be happy, although with scientific equipment I am probably not at 100%.

Like I said, I might not have gotten exactly 100%, of course there is always a margin of error.

well, which is it? I'm curious as to how you can get "100%" if you don't take exanct measurements and you say there is a margin of error? Please explain further.

and I forgot to vorlauf last night - I hope my beer isn't ruined

 

[wildwest450]

I've seen some sorry threads on this site, this one may take the cake.

Why fight over efficiency numbers? Either you make good beer or you don't, it doesn't make a bit of difference how you get there.

 

[The Pol]

I've seen some sorry threads on this site, this one may take the cake.

Why fight over efficiency numbers? Either you make good beer or you don't, it doesn't make a bit of difference how you get there.

I dont think anyone cares about his eff., at least I dont see where anyone does.

I think it is more about being honest and making wild claims. Face it, you make wild claims like this, people are going to comment on it.

Also, there is false information being posted... like vorlaughing increasing eff? Cmon... there are ppl that read this stuff who read something and believe it because it is in print and they dont know any better.

This has nothing to do with eff., this thread could be about something else completely, and end up where it is now. This is about integrity and posting false info.

 

[wildwest450]

This is about integrity and posting false info.

Have you read any post's on here lately? 1/2 of them are hearsay, and false, if not misleading info.

 

[The Pol]

Have you read any post's on here lately? 1/2 of them are hearsay, and false, if not misleading info.

Yup, and they all get the same treatment... so that some newb doesnt wander in and read that you can ferment with spit just as effectively as you can with S-05.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

I did get 100%.

No joke.

Should be read:

"Hey guys I heard this funny joke:

<JOKE>
I did get 100%

No Joke

</JOKE>"