I hate wasting beer

[Beer_Guy]

I am tired of wasting good beer produced when making starters, so…

Here is my plan.

I recently picked up a vial of WLP007 English Dry Ale yeast and the grains to make an Old Ale. Before I brew it of course I need to make a starter.

I plan to pick up a 3.3lb can of Briess Golden extract. Split that among three starter jugs for a final batch of 2.25 gallons. Pitch the WLP007 into two jugs and ferment it unhopped. Boil the third starter and add enough hops to provide all the bitterness the combined brew needs. (Also I’ll add 0.12lbs of Chocolate for color and added flavor.) Then cold crash, mix and bottle the decanted brew. I will then have a nice stash of 007 to pitch the AG Old Ale onto.

The question for the group is which yeast to use in the hopped jug. If I try to keep the unhopped wort down to 1.050 OG, the hopped wort is at 1.100 OG. I have on hand four Fermentis yeasts to choose from. 03, 04, 33 and 58. I’m thinking 33 because of the high ABV without the added peppery and spicy flavors of 58. But if 04 or 05 will handle it, I’d prefer the clean 05. The fact I’m shooting for a mild hop type Old Ale, 05 might be better than 33. Even if it craps out before finishing. I can always let the mixed decanted brews set in a secondary for a week or so to give the 007 a chance to finish it off. Once blended the ABV will be only 6.59% so the 007 should eat up any sugars left in the 9.8% hopped starter.

OK, I’m rambling. Any thoughts guys?

 

[PurpleJeepXJ]

I may just be slow... but what? seems like way too much effort

 

[jwible204]

that was so confusing. please try again. or, just make a starter with the vial and call it a day. i made a starter of some washed Denny's Favorite earlier. start-finish is 30 minutes, most of the time you can do other **** as it boils and cools.

 

[dcp27]

Why not just make like a 3gal 1.04-1.05 batch with 1 vial and use the cake from it as your starter? It's a 2 week long 'starter', but then you get beer from it.

 

[Beer_Guy]

Ok, so I’ll defend my plan….

I want the 007 yeast to stay as clean as possible and I want to save one jug's yeast for future batches. Also, I do all my brews for now in 1 gallon jugs. With 3 jugs filled to ferment level (3/4 full) I get 2.25 gallon batches or about 1 case. I guess doing small batches has spoiled me. I hate wasting money by tossing out anything and pitching the whole jug changes my OG on these small size batches.

As to the time needed, I am gone from home for 2-3 weeks at a time and home for sometimes for as little as a weekend. Making a starter is not always an option but a long term starter always is.

This Old Ale will be my first AG and I just cannot cut any corners on this one.

Plus, I kind of answered my question myself.

 

[Beer_Guy]

I guess I should add that the Old Ale will also be a 2.25 gallon batch and the cost of 1 vial of 007 raises the price quite a bit unless I do something else with it. I'm just doing that something BEFORE I do the Old Ale so I can save some yeast that is really clean.

 

[theredben]

If you are tired of wasting beer on starters, then don't make one. If you are using commercial strains starters are not necessary. Yes, you will have more esters/phenols/insert chemical compound here. If you make a smaller starter than normal you will compromise with less wasted beer than a regular starter, and less yeast growth compounds than just pitching the vial/smack pack. If you are washing yeast, then you can just use the proper amount right out of the mason jar.

If you want to make a consistent product then you need consistent practices, they just don't have to be the same as everyone else.

OP- Just saw your next post, if you are buying new yeast then you can certainly wash your yeast to cut down on costs drastically. IMO a new smack pack is a waste for 5 gallons, I would never buy a new pack for only 2.5 gallons.

 

[SKMO]

Way too many numbers in first post, she promised no math was involved. But to answer your question, yes.

 

[dzlater]

Do you even need a starter for a 2.25 gallons batch?

 

[Beer_Guy]

No.

But I can cut the cost of the yeast by building it up clean and saving a lagre part of a vial before hand.

 

[shelly_belly]

When I do gallon size ferments I usually use dry yeast and split a pack 5 ways. Cheap, fast and easy.

 

[Qeelin]

Wow, I can understand being frugal but having a problem throwing out the beer you decant off a starter is a bit much. You would have a hard time working in a brewery.

Oh, and don't ever watch Brew Masters on Discovery. On one episode they throw out over a half a million dollars worth of IPA because of stuck fermentation, yikes!

 

[ksbrain]

Couldn't you just wash the yeast after the Old Ale's done?

 

[SchlazzGraft]

Couldn't you just wash the yeast after the Old Ale's done?

This was going to be my suggestion, if youre concerned about saving a couple bucks per batch just pitch without a starter and wash it. You'll get many more batches out of one vial and it'll be easier to store than a big starter.

 

[cravej]

I agree with ksbrain and SchlazzGraft, just use the Old Ale as a starter for your future batches.

 

[Beer_Guy]

… and it'll be easier to store than a big starter.

Yes, but I will not be storing the starter. I’ll be drinking it.

 

[mvnegassi]

I admire what you're doing, but I'm confused about what you're calling "starter". There's the yeast and then there's the beer that it produced. You hate to toss out the beer, so you want to make a starter that produces drinkable beer, right? I would say, though, that you don't have to worry about tossing out some of the yeast because you can always use what's left over to make more.

So why not make your three batches, two unhopped and one hopped just like you said. Then pitch your 007 yeast into all three. Keep the yeast from the two unhopped batches as starter yeast and mix your beer from the unhopped batches with the hopped batch. Whatever yeast your single hopped batch produced you can toss because you can get as much 007 as you want from the two unhopped batches.

Does this make sense?

 

[Beer_Guy]

Same idea. Might be better too. Then all the brew will have one yeast strain to bottle carb and condition with. Had not concidered that. Thanks.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

Seriously???? You are not wasting beer, because you did not make any. The stuff from the starter is not beer, it is yeast nutrient. If you drink that you are crazy. Disgusting.

If you REALLY still consider it wasting, then just dump the whole starter into your beer on brew day. That little bit isn't going to hurt your five gallons any, and it'll save you a ton of work.

 

[IrregularPulse]

Couldn't you just wash the yeast after the Old Ale's done?

This is what I was thinking. Just make a simple starter with your 007, pitch into your old ale and ferment. Then after racking to to bottle, wash the yeast and save for future batches. They way I understand it is that you believe the yeast will "tainted" by the old ale. It won't it will be clean after washing. Not affected taste or otherwise by the previous beer it fermented. And as Bernie said below, the "beer" you get from the starters will not be worth drinking. Especially the unhopped ones.

Seriously???? You are not wasting beer, because you did not make any. The stuff from the starter is not beer, it is yeast nutrient. If you drink that you are crazy. Disgusting.

If you REALLY still consider it wasting, then just dump the whole starter into your beer on brew day. That little bit isn't going to hurt your five gallons any, and it'll save you a ton of work.

His final brew is 2.25 gallons.

 

[Qeelin]

Seriously???? You are not wasting beer, because you did not make any. The stuff from the starter is not beer, it is yeast nutrient. If you drink that you are crazy. Disgusting.

If you REALLY still consider it wasting, then just dump the whole starter into your beer on brew day. That little bit isn't going to hurt your five gallons any, and it'll save you a ton of work.

My feelings exactly. It's way more work than its worth. You're only throwing out a few ounces in each starter and I wouldn't want to drink it anyway.

 

[emjay]

Oh God, I can't breath, this is just too funny. I hope this is just a giant troll because it's absolutely gross.

 

[beerrepository]

I have to agree with those suggesting washing. It is super simple, you get a ton of good yeast, and seems to have the smallest margin of error. Check out the pictorial about washing yeast on here, it is excellent.

I washed some WLP005, and got six half pint jars. Used one for a brew and just put another in a starter, works flawlessly.

Sent from my iPhone using HB Talk

 

[Bernie Brewer]

His final brew is 2.25 gallons.

Missed that part. Then don't even mess with a starter.

 

[malkore]

Just wash one single yeast cake after using 007 (with a normal starter) and reclaim 4-5 batches worth of optimal pitch range yeast. Nuff said.

 

[Beer_Guy]

Oh God, I can't breath, this is just too funny. I hope this is just a giant troll because it's absolutely gross.

I am NOT a troll. I am serious. But, glad I could help make your day anyway.

Just wash one single yeast cake after using 007 (with a normal starter) and reclaim 4-5 batches worth of optimal pitch range yeast. Nuff said.

Yes, but by doing two I get enough really clean yeast for 8-10 batches. Plus the hopped trub once washed will be fine for the AG Old Ale.


Note: I do all small batches do to a space issue. I mix (or blend in this case if you will) all my brews. I started over a year ago with 0.75 gallon batches and after finding several recipes I liked, I have upped the size to using 3 or 4 jugs on a batch. It works for me.

As to the starter not making beer, I disagree. (Ok, two jugs will not have hops, so I guess you can say that.) The other one will be a highly hopped Black IPA. After adjusting the figures in BeerSmith, all three jugs will have a 1.066 OG and all should finish at the same time. A little big for a starter, but the 007 should do fine for all three.

So, nevermind, move along. This is not the troll you are looking for.

 

[emjay]

You're missing the point of making a starter in the first place if you're making them at 1.066 SG. Starters are all about producing the healthiest yeast possible, not about producing drinkable beer. This is also why stir plates are ideally used, but all that oxygen that is fantastic for the yeast also produces a very nasty tasting "beer", if you can call it that.

 

[maltbarleyhops]

i must be having too much fun brewing.....i feel bad that someone goes through all that for 2+ gallons.

but cheers anyway

 

[Beer_Guy]

As for missing the point, I may, after all the negative responses, just mix up 4 - 1.030 OG jugs with nothing but nutrient and LME or DME. Then just call it quits on the idea of making something with it. It is just with my small batches I get tired of wasting the “Spent Wort” as some call it.

Also, for the record, 2.25 gallons is a case. I have very little space to work with, so it is ideal for me.

Now back to a good attitude…

All you EACs can kiss my fermenter. I promise to never share anymore tips or ideas with you. So if you are one of those EACs then whenever you see one of my posts, remember it is NOT addressed to you and reading it violates the terms of our relationship.

[Sorry, but I felt a need to lighten the mood a tad.]

 

[motobrewer]

awesome thread.

i still have no clue what your original or subsequent plans are.

 

[Qeelin]

As for missing the point, I may, after all the negative responses, just mix up 4 - 1.030 OG jugs with nothing but nutrient and LME or DME. Then just call it quits on the idea of making something with it. It is just with my small batches I get tired of wasting the “Spent Wort” as some call it.

Also, for the record, 2.25 gallons is a case. I have very little space to work with, so it is ideal for me.

Now back to a good attitude…

All you EACs can kiss my fermenter. I promise to never share anymore tips or ideas with you. So if you are one of those EACs then whenever you see one of my posts, remember it is NOT addressed to you and reading it violates the terms of our relationship.

[Sorry, but I felt a need to lighten the mood a tad.]

No offence but you had to expect that most people on here brew in 5 gal batches or bigger and throwing away the small amount that you decant off the top of a starter isn't that big a deal to them/us. I can see not wanting to waist anything when a typical batch for you is no more than 2 1/4 gals. It IS beer that's produced from a starter and I've read people putting hops in their starters (including John Palmer).

And who are you calling a EAC? lol

 

[maltbarleyhops]

i dont know what an "EAC" is.

 

[midfielder5]

Effluent Animal Comedy

 

[Qeelin]

Extremely Acrobatic Cockatoo's

 

[riromero]

If you don't like wasting yeast, it's great fun to make slants and streak plates which gives you a potentially endless supply. I'd highly recommend it. If you already have access to a pressure cooker and a collection of old jars, the cost is pennies.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

Ok, hand over the fermenter and let me kiss it. You are still wasting your time. You don't even need a starter for that small of a batch. And you can disagree all you want, but a spent starter is not beer. Nyah.

 

[Beer_Guy]

...You are still wasting your time. You don't even need a starter for that small of a batch....

[This is fun!]

True, I could pitch a full vial or even half of one, but pitching a fourth increased by the use of a starter (or a lighter brew as I am suggesting) saves money. Many people have talked about doing a Pale Ale first and fermenting a BIG beer on the trub from that. Do you feel they should just buy another couple of vials instead?

I do not know why you are so much against being parsimonious. Oh yes, you ARE an E and have plenty of extra cash. I cannot comment on the AC part though as you have not insulted me.

Not yet, anyway.

(I would explain what parsimonious means, but I figure surely you already know and would consider it an insult.)

 

[Qeelin]

[this is fun!]

true, i could pitch a full vial or even half of one, but pitching a fourth increased by the use of a starter (or a lighter brew as i am suggesting) saves money. Many people have talked about doing a pale ale first and fermenting a big beer on the trub from that. Do you feel they should just buy another couple of vials instead?

I do not know why you are so much against being parsimonious. Oh yes, you are an e and have plenty of extra cash. I cannot comment on the ac part though as you have not insulted me.

Not yet, anyway.

(i would explain what parsimonious means, but i figure surely you already know and would consider it an insult.)

lmao!!

 

[maltbarleyhops]

ok, im checking out of this thread. its about to get ugly....

 

[motobrewer]

[This is fun!]

True, I could pitch a full vial or even half of one, but pitching a fourth increased by the use of a starter (or a lighter brew as I am suggesting) saves money. Many people have talked about doing a Pale Ale first and fermenting a BIG beer on the trub from that. Do you feel they should just buy another couple of vials instead?

I do not know why you are so much against being parsimonious. Oh yes, you ARE an E and have plenty of extra cash. I cannot comment on the AC part though as you have not insulted me.

Not yet, anyway.

(I would explain what parsimonious means, but I figure surely you already know and would consider it an insult.)

i'll give you the 50 cents you're saving to never talk about this again.