Hydrometer vs Refractometer to monitor fermentation finish

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vnzjunk

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I know that it is proper to measure the finished gravity with a Hydrometer to mitigate inaccuracy of doing so with a Refractometer when alcohol is present.
After relying on the latter to monitor the fermentation process for quite some time I picked up a Hydrometer to get a more exact ABV% reading. After taking several samples over several days I became dismayed at the amount of beer used up to take the readings just to confirm that the fermentation was done. It wasn't wasted because I would let the sample settle and drink it to check the sweetness and so as not to waste it.

My thought is that by monitoring the gravity of a fermenting beer as it progresses by using just a couple of drops using the Refractometer could tell me what I needed to know about the slowing/finish point without drawing a march larger quantity for the Hydrometer. And then when satisfied that fermentation was finished take a reading with the Hydrometer to guage the ABV% of the finished beer.

Any thoughts yea or nay on this?
 
I have been using a refractometer for a long time to measure final gravity. Once you learn the range it is no different. Most of my beers finish around 6.5 brix. Belgians will finish at 6 even. 7 is a little under attenuated. Brewer's Friend has a great converter that uses these numbers. https://www.brewersfriend.com/refractometer-calculator/

I tried to do these numbers in Beersmith and it gives the conversion somehwere in the 3 brix area. So I do not know where it is coming from.
 
I have been using a refractometer for a long time to measure final gravity. Once you learn the range it is no different. Most of my beers finish around 6.5 brix. Belgians will finish at 6 even. 7 is a little under attenuated. Brewer's Friend has a great converter that uses these numbers. https://www.brewersfriend.com/refractometer-calculator/

I tried to do these numbers in Beersmith and it gives the conversion somehwere in the 3 brix area. So I do not know where it is coming from.

My current Beer an English Mild Ale is 6 days in and the reading is 7.5Bx using the refractometer. I just moved it from a 60F location to one that is 70F. I will give it till midweek to finish up and clear some more. At that time I am expecting a bit lower reading.
 
For bottling, I prefer a hydrometer because I feel it can be read more accurately. I use a bottling hydrometer. It has divisions every .0005, and it can be easily read to half that - .00025. I like that accuracy (repeatability actually) to be really sure fermentation is finished. No bottle bombs. (This doesn't apply if kegging.)
 
I use a refractometer now for all gravity measurements.

I bought a narrow range (0.99-1.02) hydrometer to compare final gravity measurements. 1. The hydrometer was not well calibrated vs RO water and required a correction factor of +0.003. 2. After correction of the hydrometer and refractometer readings they are identical across many different batches of beer and beer styles
 
My current Beer an English Mild Ale is 6 days in and the reading is 7.5Bx using the refractometer. I just moved it from a 60F location to one that is 70F. I will give it till midweek to finish up and clear some more. At that time I am expecting a bit lower reading.

The higher temp should get you to 7 brix or lower depending on how much yeast you pitched and time. Many English strains do not do the deep dive like Belgian strains. One of the benefits of homebrewing vs pro brewing is not having to know exactly when it comes to gravity measurements. Since I keg, it is more curiosity than anything else if you can give the beer enough time.
 
I want to thank @dmtaylor for bringing the Novotny calculator for refractometer correction to our attention. I've captured its formulas in my own spreadsheet (and confirmed my spreadsheets output vs. Novotny's online calculator) and I will be comparing the Novotny output against Sean Terrill's various formulas and his online calculator.
 
For anyone interested, the following will summarize in maximum geeky fashion most of what I've learned after playing around with hydro vs. refract measurements over the past year or two. I don't claim to fully use all the correct technical terms, I am not a very good engineer or mathematician, but I did play one in college a long time ago.

I have done the same as @Silver_Is_Money, I have a spreadsheet that compares all the formulae side by side. My spreadsheet includes an error calculation, which I can then use to determine if any formula consistently gives a result that is a little high or a little low compared to a hydrometer reading, and if so, I can normalize(?) or employ noise reduction(?) on the calculations going forward -- I believe this is similar to Dolby noise reduction (for you music listeners out there), and like calibrating your hydrometer in plain cool water, like if you know that your hydro is always high by 0.002, to calibrate then you can just always subtract the 0.002 from every reading afterward to get the most accurate readings. I treat each refractometer conversion formula the same way -- if a formula always gives a calculated result that is 0.002 too high vs. hydro, then I just subtract it off the same way every time forever. That way I am eliminating the permanent known part of the error for ultimate accuracy of each formula and comparing apples to apples, as opposed to concluding anything like "well such-and-such formula is always too high by exactly 0.006 points therefore this formula sucks" -- that wouldn't be right in my mind, because if it is always off by exactly 0.006, then I can very simply do a subtraction, just like calibrating a hydrometer, to get a very accurate result with the refractometer conversion calc. If precision is excellent but accuracy is a little off, not a big deal, we can fix that very easily.

As I said, there are five formulae in total that I am aware of. Sean Terrill and Petr Novotny have two each, linear and cubic. I still find the "Old Cubic" (with original source unknown (at least by yours truly)) and both of Novotny's formulae to be more precise AND more accurate than both of Sean Terrill's. No offense to Sean, as he is a great dude, has done a LOT of great work for the homebrewing community over the years, and I wish him nothing but the best. I just think his numbers are slightly less precise here. But still I think they were the foundation of Novotny's work as well, and for that he deserves great credit.

For what it's worth, myself and others are finding that the default "wort correction factor" of 1.04 reported by Terrill might not be the best average default, and a better default might be closer to 0.99-1.00, i.e., not much "correction" needed at all whatsoever. However, this factor does vary from gauge to gauge, and you really need to run a few comparisons on OG (yes, OG only) to determine your own correction factor. Play around and see what works to match your OG measured with hydrometer vs. Original Brix with refractometer. Once you figure that out, you can use a refractometer conversion calculator to easily get accurate results within 0.002-0.004. Ultimately, if/when in doubt, a hydrometer will always be the most precise you can get. But the five formulae we have here can get you really really close, IF you know your correction factor and IF you calibrate your equipment regularly.

EDIT: Actually what I think I'm really doing is something called "linear regression". I understand the concept but I think I've been doing it manually instead of with fancy automated calcs. Whatever or however, I can tell you that it's working well, as the average (mean?) errors for the five formulae currently range from 0.0006 to 0.0029 for the past 7 batches, so, like I say, within 0.003 or 3 gravity points, versus actual calibrated hydrometer readings. Not perfect, but pretty dang close.
 
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Use whatever is convenient for you. I don't claim to be right, but it works for me. I use a refrac for all measurements pre-fermentation (mashing and into fermenter). I use a hydro for all post fermentation measurements (when racking or bottling), I like the simple reading, and think tasting the sample provides a whole lot more information. I do not take multiple hydro measurements over several days; I know what I expect it to be and if it is within a reasonable range, then I am OK. If it wasn't I would just leave it longer, but that has not happened in a couple of hundred brews.

Whenever I add juices or other sugars of indeterminate sugar quantity, I will take both a refrac and hydro measurement at bottling, so that I can calculate the effective OG of the beer and calculate the abv.

This is what I do, it works for me. I don't make any claim that it is how anyone else should do it.
 
I do not take multiple hydro measurements over several days; I know what I expect it to be and if it is within a reasonable range, then I am OK.

For kegging, I would do the same. Since I bottle, I take readings 2 - 3 days apart to make sure gravity is stable. In my case, it's about safety - not beer quality.
 
+1 to the Novotny link. That's a gem for sure.

I included that formula in my personal spreadsheet. On the occasions I crossed checked it with a narrow range precision hydrometer, it was pretty close (largest deviation was about 2 s.g. points and is near start of fermentation) and much better than Terrill. Terrill isn't in the ball park until fermentation is almost done. Terrill is trash.

The way I do it...
1. Digital refract (analog OK but introduces some potential bias)
2. Full set of narrow range hydrometers - a requirement IMHO.
3. All refract samples are filtered through a coffee filter. Suspended solids fsck refractometers it up horribly. It also degases the samples, which affects density.
4. Accurate measurements are taken of OG with both refract & narrow range hydrometer to determine correction factor.
5. Fermentation samples are taken during fermentation and filtered through coffee filter. Digital refract + novotny are used to determine current gravity.
6. If spunding, you rack at the FFT refract measurement +1.0 Brix (approx).
7. I take final-final measurement of fully lagered and conditioned beer with both refract and hydrometer for my records. Coffee filter employed to knock out the bubbles. This aids in dialing in repeat recipes and also determine FFT vs real FG.

I typically take 2-4 samples during fermentation that total about 100-200mL. Much better than 150-200mL per hydro sample.
 
For kegging, I would do the same. Since I bottle, I take readings 2 - 3 days apart to make sure gravity is stable. In my case, it's about safety - not beer quality.

I bottle too. Hundreds of batches, and no problems.

For people still getting used to how beer finishes, I recommend multiple samples just to get a feel of how the beer matures and when it is ready. Based on recipe and process, I pretty much know where my beers are going to finish, and if that is where they are, then it is good to go.
 

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