How to make a clean tasting IPA?

[phasedweasel]

I've made two IPAs so far, and neither was quite what I'm looking for. In the good commercial IPAs they taste "clean" and "pure". What I mean is I get hop aroma, bitterness, malt, maybe some fruity smells from the hop and the yeast. However, my IPAs have been tasting kind of "muddy". I am getting a lot of hop flavor, strong grapefruit in the mouth when I drink it, and it really reminds my of typical homebrew where nothing is really shining. My other beers I feel are quite well tuned now, so I'd like to figure out the IPA.

The first one I tried was an all-Centennial IPA. 1.058 OG dropped to 1.007, so residual sweetness definitely causing any muddying. I used Wyeast 1272 and fermented 62-64* in a water bath. It was hopped with 0.7 oz at 60 min, 1 oz at 15 min, 1 oz at 5 min, 1 oz at 1 min and 3 oz dry (all Centennial). The malt bill was straightforward: pale, 2 lb Vienna, 1/2 lb each CaraVienna (20L) and CaraPils (in a 5 gallon batch).

My second IPA was an English IPA. 1.064 OG, dropped to 1.010 (lower than I was shooting for). Fermented with WLP002 at 63*. Hopping was at 1.2 oz Amarillo at 60 min, 0.6 oz Kent Goldings at 30 min and again at 20 min, 0.5 oz Centennial at 10 min, 1 oz Willamette at 1 min and 1.5 oz Willamette dry. Grain bill was Maris Otter, 1/2 lb each wheat, biscuit, and crystal 40L with 0.4 lb crystal 120L.

Any insights would be appreciated!

 

[PurpleJeepXJ]

Sounds like you need to filter but then you would have to keg.

 

[wildwest450]

.007 is dry, and should leave no residual sweetness.
Nottingham is an excellent IPA yeast, despite it's reputation, it's fast fermenting and ultra clean. It let's the grain bill and hops shine.
IMO that yeast (Wyeast 1272 ) is not suitable for a clean IPA.

 

[molsonG]

try a english ipa with us05 yeast

 

[glickmanii]

So, before giving suggestions, could you answer a few questions: How long are you dry hopping for? Are you using a secondary? I agree with wildwest that Nottingham is a good IPA yeast; it has left numerous batches of strong IPAs very clean and balanced.

The one thing I see is that possibly on the first you only used one type of hops (which could make it a little bland-ish for an IPA), but for the second you used 4 different ones and a bunch of different grain (which may be too complex and "muddy"). You might try to pick a commercial IPA recipe that you like, try to find a clone, and tweak it a bit. I normally brew mine with 2-3 grains and 2-3 different hops (normally 3 at different times during the boil and 2 of the same for dry hopping for 2 weeks).

I hope this helps.

 

[mjohnson]

Are you pitching enough yeast? If you're underpitching, it might cause the muddy-ness. Another thing to look at would be your water. Although I'd mess with everything else before I'd fart around with water.

 

[Golddiggie]

Try less grain variations... I made an ESB that was damned tasty, and easy to drink. With some more hops, it could easily be an IPA (was in the range of an English IPA actually)...

11# UK 2 Row
1# British Crystal Malt 1 (45 SRM)
.25# Victory Malt
Bittering: Target hops
Aroma: Fuggles hops
Yeast: Wyeast Scottish Ale (#1728)

I'm planning to make it again next week. Going to shift a little and go with:
12# UK 2 Row
1# Crystal MO (55 SRM)
.25# Victory Malt
1oz Target (10.50% AA) 60 minutes
1oz Fuggles (4.00% AA) 20 minutes
.5oz Fuggles Whole Leaf -- Dry hop for 7 days
Yeast: Wyeast Scottish Ale (#1728)
Ferment for 3-4 weeks at ~60-66F (ambient)

I might increase the hops during the boil a little. It all depends on what I have left in the open packets on hand. If I need to pull more hops from the other (unopened) packets, I might increase the amount a bit... I want to keep it under 45-50 IBU. The first one was about 42 IBU...

Just something to think about... The first one was damned easy to drink... When I brew it again, I'm going to go with more flavor than aroma hops (shifting the original 5 minute Fuggles to 20 minutes). Also moved the bittering on the original from 45 minutes to 60 minutes. Of course, on the first one I messed up my mash, so I had a lower efficiency. Still, would like to get either a similar, or better, result this time.

 

[dirty_martini]

It took me 3 years of brewing before I ever looked at my water. I noticed that my water wasn't best suited for IPAs. The sulfite level was low. My beers always lacked that crisp bitterness and like you, had a bit of a muddy hop character. A couple grams of gypsum to bring the levels up, and it completely changed my hoppy beers.

I wouldn't add any until you knew what your water report was, but it was the difference in my hoppy beers.

 

[phasedweasel]

Dirty_martini, what are you water levels? I have soft water, around 50 ppm sulfate but not much else. I generally add about 2g each CaCl2 and gypsum to get the overall calcium up and roughly balance the CaCl2 and gypsum.

To everyone else, thanks for the feedback, lots of things to think about. I'll probably try a 2 Hearted clone next, something with a light grain bill (pale, crystal 20) and one or two varieties of hops with fewer additions.