How to increase the gravity in a porter recipe

[mtnagel]

I have a porter recipe that I'd like to increase the SG and therefore the ABV. Would I just increase the base malt or would I increase every ingredient to maintain the same percentages? Or something in between?

The recipe is marris otter, pale wheat malt, chocolate malt, English black malt, and C80.

Thanks!

 

[feinbera]

Ideally, something in between will give your best result (and, you'll probably also want to nudge the hops up a bit, since higher original gravity will likely lead to higher final gravity, with more sweetness for the hops to counteract).

If you're feeling experimental, don't mind the beer coming out just kinda sorta OK the first time you brew it, and are willing to commit to tuning the recipe over multiple batches, have at it, take good notes on what you change from batch to batch and what you liked/didn't like each time through, etc, etc. But if you want a porter that's gonna be higher ABV and also taste great the first time it's brewed, I'd look around for a different recipe that's already got the ABV you want "out of the box" instead tweaking one that's too weak.

 

[Paradigm]

More grain in the mash will always increase the gravity. At least in the realm of sanity. You can also add DME near the end of the boil, there is plenty of precedent for it. I did it for a RIS last year.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

More grain in the mash will always increase the gravity. At least in the realm of sanity. You can also add DME near the end of the boil, there is plenty of precedent for it. I did it for a RIS last year.

I would say this is a safe bet if you are looking at a relatively small increase in ABV (less than, lets say, 2% increase). If its something more than around 2% you are looking at probably a new recipe.

Or a recipe you'll have to make at least 2 attempts brewing. First time to test an idea and then second time to make corrections. Roasty malts (such as black malt) get very intense very quickly so keeping the percentages the same is a relatively safe bet if you aren't doing a big jump in ABV. Though in the same batch size it will get significantly darker so you'll end up in full on stout color (by the numbers only around 35SRM is the max for a porter category) not that going by the numbers is important.

So if you are taking a recipe for a 5% beer and making it an 8% recipe, you might want to design the recipe from the ground up (you can use the same ingredients). You'll have to fiddle with the numbers and experiment (the best part about homebrewing), adding lots of DME works but could throw off the balance, adding sugar will increase ABV quickly without changing the flavor balance but will quickly dry out the beer making it thinner and less porter-y. Flat out increasing only the base malt will work, but again may throw off the balance of the recipe and tipping it towards the more malty particularly with Marris Otter.

 

[Paradigm]

I agree that another recipe is probably the best choice. You can add ABV with just DME and yeast, however. Might not be the best, but he asked and that's a method xD

 

[mtnagel]

Ideally, something in between will give your best result (and, you'll probably also want to nudge the hops up a bit, since higher original gravity will likely lead to higher final gravity, with more sweetness for the hops to counteract).

If you're feeling experimental, don't mind the beer coming out just kinda sorta OK the first time you brew it, and are willing to commit to tuning the recipe over multiple batches, have at it, take good notes on what you change from batch to batch and what you liked/didn't like each time through, etc, etc. But if you want a porter that's gonna be higher ABV and also taste great the first time it's brewed, I'd look around for a different recipe that's already got the ABV you want "out of the box" instead tweaking one that's too weak.

Thanks. That makes sense.

I would say this is a safe bet if you are looking at a relatively small increase in ABV (less than, lets say, 2% increase). If its something more than around 2% you are looking at probably a new recipe.

Or a recipe you'll have to make at least 2 attempts brewing. First time to test an idea and then second time to make corrections. Roasty malts (such as black malt) get very intense very quickly so keeping the percentages the same is a relatively safe bet if you aren't doing a big jump in ABV. Though in the same batch size it will get significantly darker so you'll end up in full on stout color (by the numbers only around 35SRM is the max for a porter category) not that going by the numbers is important.

So if you are taking a recipe for a 5% beer and making it an 8% recipe, you might want to design the recipe from the ground up (you can use the same ingredients). You'll have to fiddle with the numbers and experiment (the best part about homebrewing), adding lots of DME works but could throw off the balance, adding sugar will increase ABV quickly without changing the flavor balance but will quickly dry out the beer making it thinner and less porter-y. Flat out increasing only the base malt will work, but again may throw off the balance of the recipe and tipping it towards the more malty particularly with Marris Otter.

It's about 1 - 1.5% ABV increase.

Here's the original:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.50 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.75 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.25 gal   
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.065 SG
Estimated Color: 46.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 65.6 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 74.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 74.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
9 lbs 8.0 oz          Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)         Grain         2        76.0 %        
1 lbs                 Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM)               Grain         3        8.0 %         
1 lbs                 Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM)   Grain         4        8.0 %         
8.0 oz                Black Malt (Simpsons) (550.0 SRM)        Grain         5        4.0 %         
8.0 oz                Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM)    Grain         6        4.0 %         
1.00 oz               Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min        Hop           7        60.2 IBUs     
0.50 oz               Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Boil 15.0 mi Hop           8        3.3 IBUs      
0.50 oz               Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop           9        2.1 IBUs

And here's what I'm thinking:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.50 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.75 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.25 gal   
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.081 SG
Estimated Color: 49.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 61.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 74.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 74.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
12 lbs                Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)         Grain         1        77.7 %        
1 lbs 3.5 oz          Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM)   Grain         2        7.9 %         
1 lbs 1.3 oz          Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM)               Grain         3        7.0 %         
9.9 oz                Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM)    Grain         4        4.0 %         
8.3 oz                Black Malt (Simpsons) (550.0 SRM)        Grain         5        3.4 %         
1.00 oz               Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min        Hop           6        56.7 IBUs     
0.50 oz               Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Boil 15.0 mi Hop           7        3.1 IBUs      
0.50 oz               Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop           8        2.0 IBUs

Thoughts?

 

[KartRacer54]

As a routine I like to boost ABV in what I consider rather week recipes. I use BeerSmith to recalculate the ingredients after I select the higher gravity. I the take te recommended ingredients and round up to even 1/4 oz / LB. this has workedverywell the last4 batches including Irish Stout, Tallgrass Buffallo sweat, and Pale Ale.
I am still a rooky but this has worked well for me. I like to add extra grain but when grain is not in inventory I boost with brown sugar or DME. Always staying below the the re on mended % in BeerSmith, usually 10%.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

Thanks. That makes sense.

It's about 1 - 1.5% ABV increase.

Here's the original:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.50 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.75 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.25 gal   
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.065 SG
Estimated Color: 46.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 65.6 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 74.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 74.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
9 lbs 8.0 oz          Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)         Grain         2        76.0 %        
1 lbs                 Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM)               Grain         3        8.0 %         
1 lbs                 Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM)   Grain         4        8.0 %         
8.0 oz                Black Malt (Simpsons) (550.0 SRM)        Grain         5        4.0 %         
8.0 oz                Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM)    Grain         6        4.0 %         
1.00 oz               Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min        Hop           7        60.2 IBUs     
0.50 oz               Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Boil 15.0 mi Hop           8        3.3 IBUs      
0.50 oz               Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop           9        2.1 IBUs

And here's what I'm thinking:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.50 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.75 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.25 gal   
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.081 SG
Estimated Color: 49.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 61.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 74.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 74.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
12 lbs                Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)         Grain         1        77.7 %        
1 lbs 3.5 oz          Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM)   Grain         2        7.9 %         
1 lbs 1.3 oz          Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM)               Grain         3        7.0 %         
9.9 oz                Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM)    Grain         4        4.0 %         
8.3 oz                Black Malt (Simpsons) (550.0 SRM)        Grain         5        3.4 %         
1.00 oz               Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min        Hop           6        56.7 IBUs     
0.50 oz               Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Boil 15.0 mi Hop           7        3.1 IBUs      
0.50 oz               Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop           8        2.0 IBUs

Thoughts?

I think it looks alright, if you are comfortable with the slight color increase and the IBU decrease. A smiggen more of one of the hops would make up that difference pretty quick if you want that extra 4 IBU to match the original. The color, well, there's not much I can think of to do about the color, though I wouldn't worry about it too much. Unless you are submitting it to competition and even then I don't think with a porter, if you picked the best category for it, the color being slightly darker wouldn't hurt (it may not help but wouldnt hurt).

Since its a tiny (relatively) increase in ABV, the flavors shouldn't be thrown off hugely. It should *definitely* taste different, but I think your intent was it to be similar but with slightly more alcohol/alcohol warmth. I think most of us saw the semi-vague description that you wanted to increase the ABV and thought "oh man he's gonna take a simple 5% porter and make it a 9% imperial porter", if you did that and kept the percents the same in the same volume of water it wouldprobably turn into a mega-ash-coffee doom beer.

 

[mtnagel]

Thanks for the reply. I'm buying the ingredients today and plan to brew it at a local beer fest run by a local brewery/LHBS. So they are giving me the ingredients for free. So might as well get a little more grain/alcohol for free! I would have brewed a big imperial stout, but I just brewed two a couple months ago and I still have a bunch from previous batches, so no really need now.

I'm planning on aging on bourbon soaked oak chips so that's another reason why I thought the extra alcohol would help. I didn't want to drastically change it. I'm not worried about the 4 IBU (doubt anyone could taste that difference in porter that I'm going to age on bourbon oak cubes). I just kept the hops whole amounts to avoid adding a portion of the bag.

For the color, I could have kept the roasted malts the same, but I figured with the extra alcohol/body, a smidge more roastiness would be fine. It's already darker than any porter category. And no plans to enter in a competition since there is no imperial porter category

 

[zmanzorro]

I really like this chart. Calculate where the recipe balance is before the change, and then follow the linear trend to your new gravity, and use that bitterness.

View attachment 1429884766698.jpg

 

[mtnagel]

Well according to that, the original recipe would be off the charts and the updated one would be "extra hoppy". I'd say that that scale is way different than my taste buds. According to that Sierra Nevada pale ale would be "extra hoppy". I'm going to have to agree to disagree on that

 

[Gavin C]

There is a great new thread relating to this very question posted today.

Here

 

[m00ps]

Yeah that chart doesn't look right at all. When you start placing random commercial beers on it, many fall entirely off the chart...

 

[zmanzorro]

Whether you agree with the chart or not, the same principle applies, just follow the same linear ratio.

For what it's worth, your recipe doesn't fall into any range of Porter according to BJCP. I'd suggest a Baltic Porter recipe if you want a stronger version of a porter without going to a stout. Typically 5-10% abv.

EDIT: Just read the other thread and this is exactly what I was saying for the BU/GU ratio.

 

[mtnagel]

There is a great new thread relating to this very question posted today.

Here

Thanks for the link. I didn't read it all, but it I think it's easier on an IPA recipe than a porter or stout.

Whether you agree with the chart or not, the same principle applies, just follow the same linear ratio.

For what it's worth, your recipe doesn't fall into any range of Porter according to BJCP. I'd suggest a Baltic Porter recipe if you want a stronger version of a porter without going to a stout. Typically 5-10% abv.

EDIT: Just read the other thread and this is exactly what I was saying for the BU/GU ratio.

A baltic porter is a lager. And that still doesn't fall in the range of what I'm going for here. I don't brew to style. FWIW, that original recipe is Norther Brewer's Bourbon barrel porter. I brewed it two years ago as is. I added it in a bourbon barrel and it came out amazing with a little aging (despite not fitting into a style). I'm just trying to change it up a smidge. We'll see how it goes.