How to downsize E-three vessel system

[WesBrew]

I'm wondering if I can downsize my brewing setup a little (not for smaller volume but simplicity) Currently I have a 15g e-kettle, 10g mash tun, 8g e-hlt with herms coil. I brew 6-11g batches. I'd hopefully simplify my brewday, cut back on some time, and have less equip.

I might swap the plate chiller for the simple immersion coil-less hassle, hoses and allow easier cleaning.
I'm thinking of eliminating the e-hlt with the herms coil and control the mash temp directly with an element. Thoughts?

 

[WesBrew]

Some thoughts i had for 1 and 2 vessel....
- put the hlt heating element in the mash tun, get a fb that will fit over the element, use a bag, continue as normal but gravity sparge water from a bucket

-use something like a digiboil and use a regular FB, plug into 110v and use it as a mash tun

-Switch to all-in-one

-add a FB high enought to fit over the element in the kettle, Biab in that. lifting a bag might be a pita for big batches

 

[wepeeler]

BIAB. You'd need a pulley system for lifting, so not sure that's doable in a kitchen. I brew in the garage, so I just screwed an eyehook into the ceiling stud, and I'm good to go.

 

[WesBrew]

Yeah thats the hard part about biab. Inside, lifting and draining is a pita . The Tun mod MIAB might work.

 

[Bobby_M]

None of those tanks are big enough for a no sparge full volume mashed 10 gallon batch.

 

[WesBrew]

right, I’d have to dunk sparge in the bucket for big batches.
mash in a bag in an e-tun and gravity sparge from the bucket should work . I’m fine with that. A 3” false bottoms should work over an element .

 

[Squirrels]

I do a two vessel biab hybrid. It works pretty well. I heat my water in one kettle, mash in the other.

7 years doing it this way and pretty satisfied with it.

 

[MikeCo]

If you want to continue with 11 gallon batches using what you already have, it seems a 2-vessel system is the best option. If you want to go single vessel BIAB full volume for 11 gallons, you would need a 20-gallon kettle which would not be suitable for 6 gallon batches. The 15-gallon kettle may work for low to moderate gravity larger batches with less than a full-volume mash.

I don't find the hoisting process or equipment to be difficult. I use a step ladder and a ratchet pulley with the kettle on the floor. I'm only doing 5.5 gallon batches in a 15-gallon kettle.

 

[Red over White]

Another option is to biab high gravity and diluting in the fermenter for 10 gallon batches with the kettle you have. I have been using this method for a couple years and it is indistinguishable in the glass. I know that it is frowned upon and I felt that way to, until I tried it and I absolutely can't tell the difference.

 

[doug293cz]

Another option is to biab high gravity and diluting in the fermenter for 10 gallon batches with the kettle you have. I have been using this method for a couple years and it is indistinguishable in the glass. I know that it is frowned upon and I felt that way to, until I tried it and I absolutely can't tell the difference.

No reason this should result in worse beer, but it will reduce your mash efficiency (due to lower lauter efficiency.) The efficiency loss can be calculated quite accurately, if you have values for strike water volume, pre-boil volume, post-boil volume, and fermenter volume (before and after dilution.)

Brew on

 

[Red over White]

No reason this should result in worse beer, but it will reduce your mash efficiency (due to lower lauter efficiency.) The efficiency loss can be calculated quite accurately, if you have values for strike water volume, pre-boil volume, post-boil volume, and fermenter volume (before and after dilution.)

Brew on

There are a couple things to keep in mind. Efficiency does go down, hops need to be increased a little for higher gravity boils, but using chilled top up water in the fermenter is a bonus. I use distilled water, chilled straight from the store up to 30% and have had fantastic results.

 

[WesBrew]

Interesting thoughts on the biab/top off process.
My mash tun idea looks like it would limit me to .050 for 10g batches with an element/ False bottom. I suppose I could get another15g pot and use that, or come up with a different way to heat the 10g tun
It’s a pita because everything affects everything else

 

[Red over White]

Interesting thoughts on the biab/top off process.
My mash tun idea looks like it would limit me to .050 for 10g batches with an element/ False bottom. I suppose I could get another15g pot and use that, or come up with a different way to heat the 10g tun
It’s a pita because everything affects everything else

Assumption is the mother of all screw ups, but if you are kegging and your keg purging game is on point... you can brew big beers less than 10 gallons, but more than 5.

 

[WesBrew]

I’m not sure I made any assumptions but there might not be an issue here. I typically brew lower gravity beers when I do 11 gallons, and as was suggested I could simply make 8g of bigger beers. We’ll see how low I can get the element with a good seal

 

[Red over White]

I’m not sure I made any assumptions but there might not be an issue here. I typically brew lower gravity beers when I do 11 gallons, and as was suggested I could simply make 8g of bigger beers. We’ll see how low I can get the element with a good seal

I was assuming that you kegged and didn't bottle with my comment. Good luck with your project.

 

[Kotten Brewery]

I'm wondering if I can downsize my brewing setup a little (not for smaller volume but simplicity) Currently I have a 15g e-kettle, 10g mash tun, 8g e-hlt with herms coil. I brew 6-11g batches. I'd hopefully simplify my brewday, cut back on some time, and have less equip.

I might swap the plate chiller for the simple immersion coil-less hassle, hoses and allow easier cleaning.
I'm thinking of eliminating the e-hlt with the herms coil and control the mash temp directly with an element. Thoughts?

Basically your proposal is a Braumeister/grainfather in mash mode. It works obviously but I still need a HLT for sparge water.

 

[doug293cz]

Basically your proposal is a Braumeister/grainfather in mash mode. It works obviously but I still need a HLT for sparge water.

You don't have to sparge with hot water. The only advantage it has is speeding up the heat to boil time.

Brew on

 

[Kotten Brewery]

You don't have to sparge with hot water. The only advantage it has is speeding up the heat to boil time.

Brew on

I learned something today Thanks Doug and Brulosopher (sorry trust and verify ). My new Braumeister has lost an additional water boiler.

 

[WesBrew]

Cold sparge should be fine as i usually do the boil steps on the morning after.

Either way, my thought was to prepare all of the water in the kettle, pump off the sparge water to a bucket (LT), heat up remaining mash water to strike temp, pump into tun, heat and recirc.

 

[WesBrew]

With a proper tier, i should be able to gravity sparge from the bucket and pump the runoff back up to the kettle... Or it could fail miserably.

 

[WesBrew]

I tested the bucket gravity sparge and it worked surprisingly well. I had to close the valve halfway to slow it down. Now I can use the pump to send wort up to the kettle from the MT. No more draining and lifting a full kettle.
I did the mashtun work yesterday. Watertight ! I only need 2 1/4 “ to clear the heating element . About 1.5 gallons deadspace. Pretty good

 

[WesBrew]

I need to decide now if I’m using a filter basket with legs or a false bottom shelf with a bag

 

[WesBrew]

I went with false bottom shelf to stand over the element & bag to minimize dead space. Overall, the mash went really well. Easy to maintain precise temperature, zero lag time. i recirculated with the pump. My only issue was my fault, forgot to adjust recipe with efficiency drop for bigger beer and for the 1.6g deadapace. I missed target and had to boil 1.5 hours to get OG closer, negating much of the time saving. fly sparge went too fast. maybe i'll try a batch next time.

 

[WesBrew]

Pics

 

[WesBrew]

That worked a few months ago but I didn't love it and missed target by a few points.
Today I did a 11g Pils (19.5#) BIAB in the 15g kettle with 5 gallons of room temp water sitting in a 15g MT for a dunk-sparge & recirculation. With a good squeeze on one of the lids (sloping towards the MT) I wound up at 1.048 OG with nearly half gallon too much wort. Much better. Target was 1.044.
The only other thing I might experiment with is a Rims with the two vessels.

 

[WesBrew]

In retrospect the recirc wasn’t needed in the dunk-sparge vessel but felt good doing it. No harm done

 

[WesBrew]

Circling back. Not really thrilled with anything I tried, although the two vessel I tried worked.
Considering a rims tube to eliminate the e-herms tank. I'm controlling with a brew commander, I have an extra fold back 3500w element but not sure what would be ideal. Biab in the 15g kettle w/ external heat and use the mash tun for larger batches.

 

[whoaru99]

I'm waffling between a true 1V BIAB with RIMS and a 2V setup I guess would be essentially a K-RIMS setup. The RIMS is RIMS Rocket which is 3800W @100%.

Haven't used any of it yet in either config so no results to share, but getting close.

 

[WesBrew]

Inside brewing is nice but i'm burned out on all of the equipment and issues in a tiny space. The biab with a rims might work and just keep my mash tun for bigger batches. That would still be better to not have to deal with a herms tank.
My only issue with biab has been no way to hoist the bag with cabinets overhead. Its hard to just hold it. Still, I did just that today and overshot target OG by .004 with a double mill. Bag squeezing on the lid was a pita.

 

[Bobby_M]

I'm waffling between a true 1V BIAB with RIMS and a 2V setup I guess would be essentially a K-RIMS setup. The RIMS is RIMS Rocket which is 3800W @100%.

Haven't used any of it yet in either config so no results to share, but getting close.

A 1V recirculated eBIAB would be the easiest to run with the least amount of plumbing and babysitting. I think making a system more complicated is fine, as long as it's driven by some rationale or some issue that you're trying to fix.

 

[passedpawn]

My experience with "downsizing" my system was going back to 5g was necessary - was not interested in lifting 40# of wet grain!. I was very reluctant to doing that, but after a year it's clearly been the right choice.

My AIO uses a metal basket instead of a bag. It lifts up and sits on hooks that allow it to drip, and that's probably about as good as squeezing. In fact, with it sitting up above the boil, I can do a simple 1 gallon sparge by gently pouring water over it. By design, these AIO systems can do the RIMS function and maintain perfect mash temps, and also step mashes (I'd recommend 240V systems for that though).

I went with the following system which had everything integrated into the body, incl pump and valves. I love it.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/ssbrewtech-svbs.704301/