How to build a Brewing Control Panel - HERMS 240V 30 AMP

[doug293cz]

If he did wire like in my instructions, there will be no leaking to the element outlets. If the selector switch is OFF, current can leak to the contactors but no further. So if all is wired they way it should be, there will be no current on the receptacles when the selector switch is in OFF position.

Yeah, I was still thinking about another brewer's testing where they thought that the SSR wasn't turning off when it should. As you say, with a selector controlling contactors, there can be no leakage if wired correctly.

Brew on

 

[milldoggy]

Yeah, I was still thinking about another brewer's testing where they thought that the SSR wasn't turning off when it should. As you say, with a selector controlling contactors, there can be no leakage if wired correctly.

Brew on

Yes, if the switch is correctly controlling the contractor, one hot leg will be physically disconnected. Did you get NO or NC contractors?

 

[MikeSkril]

Did you get NO or NC contractors?

Good point. That would be the the first thing to check.

 

[doug293cz]

Yes, if the switch is correctly controlling the contractor, one hot leg will be physically disconnected. Did you get NO or NC contractors?

Contactors are usually double pole, and should be wired to break both hot legs. If you only break one hot leg, you stop current flow (and power delivery), but you will still have voltage on the load. Most contactors are NO, since for the normal usage NC makes no sense (an NC contactor isn't "fail safe.") Even if Hopbreakers had NC contactors, the selector switch would still turn one off and one on (except both would be on for the center position of a three position switch), but the selections would be backwards.

Brew on

 

[milldoggy]

Contactors are usually double pole, and should be wired to break both hot legs. If you only break one hot leg, you stop current flow (and power delivery), but you will still have voltage on the load. Most contactors are NO, since for the normal usage NC makes no sense (an NC contactor isn't "fail safe.") Even if Hopbreakers had NC contactors, the selector switch would still turn one off and one on (except both would be on for the center position of a three position switch), but the selections would be backwards.

Brew on

Good point, it is the ssr that is switching one leg. Too many lunch beers today.

 

[Hopbreakers]

Get a multimeter! They are pretty cheap and very helpful for troubleshooting.

I had a buddy come over that has a wiring background. We troubleshot every connection. He was confused why they are both coming on as well. The lights work correctly with the switch. We spent a couple hours double checking it. It is weird that everything is working perfect except the selector switch. Could I have ordered a wrong selector switch? I will be finished with the pots on October 9 and was hoping to brew that next weekend. Any advice would be great.

I did not see all the other posts. I guess I will troubleshoot it a little more.

 

[MikeSkril]

I had a buddy come over that has a wiring background. We troubleshot every connection. He was confused why they are both coming on as well. The lights work correctly with the switch. We spent a couple hours double checking it. It is weird that everything is working perfect except the selector switch. Could I have ordered a wrong selector switch? I will be finished with the pots on October 9 and was hoping to brew that next weekend. Any advice would be great.

I did not see all the other posts. I guess I will troubleshoot it a little more.

If all is done as below, then there is no current on the receptacle if there is no current on the light indicator as they are wired in parallel.

Do you hear the contactor switching when turning the selector switch left and right?

The diagram is simple. Just follow every connection with your finger (breaker off) to see if the connections are exactly the same.
Show us some pictures of the wiring, back of the switch, wires going from the contactor to the receptacle.

Is there current on the receptacle when the selector switch is in OFF position?

 

[ryanj]

Curious where you sourced your box from. You said you found it locally. Any advice?

What should I expect to pay for 12x12x6?

 

[Noideron]

Thank you for this post. I have been doing a lot of research and this helps sort through all the various sources for parts, ideas on necessary parts, and places to save money, and the critical places to spend the money!

 

[MikeSkril]

Curious where you sourced your box from. You said you found it locally. Any advice?

What should I expect to pay for 12x12x6?

You will find that in local electrical supplies, like where contractors buy their stuff. Mine was about $13 (USD).

 

[ryanj]

You will find that in local electrical supplies, like where contractors buy their stuff. Mine was about $13 (USD).

Holy cow!! That's good to hear. I've been looking online and the prices are insane! $100+

Also, I noticed earlier in this thread that someone asked about what RTD sensor you bought. It looks like from the pictures you have the "Braided Cable with XLRCON-M connector (Male Panel Mount)", but you also mention that you bought panel mounts on amazon. Am I missing something?

 

[MikeSkril]

Holy cow!! That's good to hear. I've been looking online and the prices are insane! $100+

Also, I noticed earlier in this thread that someone asked about what RTD sensor you bought. It looks like from the pictures you have the "Braided Cable with XLRCON-M connector (Male Panel Mount)", but you also mention that you bought panel mounts on amazon. Am I missing something?

Good catch! I did not realize that the RTD sensors come with the panel mounts. Now I have 2 extra panel mounts. You can pick them up if you like!

 

[ryanj]

Good catch! I did not realize that the RTD sensors come with the panel mounts. Now I have 2 extra panel mounts. You can pick them up if you like!

Haha, no worries. I've been making an inventory of parts based on your write up and that was one loose end I just couldn't figure out.

I assume you built your own power cables as well?

It looks like you're running a DSPR1 for your boil control. Any reason you didn't go for the DSPR120? I noticed that it requires another RTD sensor for boil control though... I've been advised that the EZboil controllers are much better than Inkbird PIDs. I was planning on picking up two DSPR120 (HLT and BK) and then just getting an Inkbird ITC 106vh for the mash temp read out.

 

[MikeSkril]

Haha, no worries. I've been making an inventory of parts based on your write up and that was one loose end I just couldn't figure out.

I assume you built your own power cables as well?

It looks like you're running a DSPR1 for your boil control. Any reason you didn't go for the DSPR120? I noticed that it requires another RTD sensor for boil control though... I've been advised that the EZboil controllers are much better than Inkbird PIDs. I was planning on picking up two DSPR120 (HLT and BK) and then just getting an Inkbird ITC 106vh for the mash temp read out.

I did not build my cables. I wanted to, but I did not find the time to do it. I ordered 8’ cables form Auber.


I think that the DSPR1 is great for the boil. It’s simple, not expensive and just does what it should. I don’t need anything else for the boil. I put it at 100% till the wort is boiling and keep a rolling boil at 70%.


Sure, you could add a temperature sensor but I don’t need that. Boil overs are not a concern as I’m around anyhow. I have a thermometer on the boil kettle, so no problem doing hop stands or stuff like that. I just don’t see that its worth adding more cost for a temperature sensor (cable, plumbing).


The DSPR120 could be a good option for the HLT PID. It seems easy to program. If you go for it, let us know if you like it. It’s a question of preference and price. My Inkbirds are also working great, absolutely no issues.

 

[ryanj]

I did not build my cables. I wanted to, but I did not find the time to do it. I ordered 8’ cables form Auber.


I think that the DSPR1 is great for the boil. It’s simple, not expensive and just does what it should. I don’t need anything else for the boil. I put it at 100% till the wort is boiling and keep a rolling boil at 70%.


Sure, you could add a temperature sensor but I don’t need that. Boil overs are not a concern as I’m around anyhow. I have a thermometer on the boil kettle, so no problem doing hop stands or stuff like that. I just don’t see that its worth adding more cost for a temperature sensor (cable, plumbing).


The DSPR120 could be a good option for the HLT PID. It seems easy to program. If you go for it, let us know if you like it. It’s a question of preference and price. My Inkbirds are also working great, absolutely no issues.

Good point about the DSPR1. I might need to consider going that route. In the end, if I can save a couple bucks for features I won't need, it might be worth it.

One thing your write up didn't cover is your source power. How is your panel receiving power? I want to basically build what you built (30amp panel) but I have a Nema 14-50 (50 amp) receptacle on a 50 amp breaker in my garage. Since I have a 50 amp circuit, is it worth it to just build a 50 amp panel or?

Thoughts?

 

[MikeSkril]

One thing your write up didn't cover is your source power. How is your panel receiving power? I want to basically build what you built (30amp panel) but I have a Nema 14-50 (50 amp) receptacle on a 50 amp breaker in my garage. Since I have a 50 amp circuit, is it worth it to just build a 50 amp panel or?

Thoughts?

Yeah, I did not cover the power source… soon I will release a 70 pages PDF, covering the power source, and all other stuff needed for the E-HERMS build.

My panel is connected to a SPA panel (GFCI breaker) and the SPA panel is connected to a 30 AMP breaker in the main panel.

If you are happy with 30 AMP’s (one 5500 watt element at a time), you could do this:

- Get a SPA panel with GFCI 30 AMP
- Connect the control panel to the SPA panel (30 AMP rated wire)
- Use 50 AMP rated wire and plug to connect your SPA panel to your receptacle

 

[ryanj]

Yeah, I did not cover the power source… soon I will release a 70 pages PDF, covering the power source, and all other stuff needed for the E-HERMS build.

My panel is connected to a SPA panel (GFCI breaker) and the SPA panel is connected to a 30 AMP breaker in the main panel.

If you are happy with 30 AMP’s (one 5500 watt element at a time), you could do this:

- Get a SPA panel with GFCI 30 AMP
- Connect the control panel to the SPA panel (30 AMP rated wire)
- Use 50 AMP rated wire and plug to connect your SPA panel to your receptacle

Now if I could only find a 30 amp spa panel! Those 30amp gfci breakers are $100+

It sounds to me like my best bet is to just downgrade my 50amp breaker to a 30amp gfci in my main panel.

 

[MikeSkril]

Now if I could only find a 30 amp spa panel! Those 30amp gfci breakers are $100+

It sounds to me like my best bet is to just downgrade my 50amp breaker to a 30amp gfci in my main panel.

I feel you. My SPA panel has a 50 AMP breaker. I found a used one on amazon, but there are not a lot of 30 AMP SPA panels. If you don't need the 50 AMP receptacle for other stuff, it could be cheaper to replace the 50 AMP breaker with a 30 AMP GFCI breaker.

 

[Joon1975]

Great write up on the control panel and I'm very excited about starting to build one. I want to add a power cord to the panel. My questions is what type of power plug should I use?

Also I will using kegs as my pots and will be brewing 5-10 gallons. I'm in the process of finishing up the kegs. Would the control panel support my set up?

As far as the elements. I was thinking about going with DIY kits from Electric Brewing Supply. Their $100 for the kit. How much did you spend on you building the elements?

Thanks again!

 

[MikeSkril]

Great write up on the control panel and I'm very excited about starting to build one. I want to add a power cord to the panel. My questions is what type of power plug should I use?

A standard dryer plug (4 wires) and 10 AWG wire can be used in combination with a 240V/30AMP receptacle. Don’t forget the GFCI breaker!

Also I will using kegs as my pots and will be brewing 5-10 gallons. I'm in the process of finishing up the kegs. Would the control panel support my set up?

The kegs are looking great! Sure, that will work. I brew 5 to 10 gal batches and that works perfectly. The type of kettle is not that important, the false bottom and HERMS coil is the crucial stuff.

As far as the elements. I was thinking about going with DIY kits from Electric Brewing Supply. Their $100 for the kit. How much did you spend on you building the elements?

From what I can see, the kit is $135. I don't know my exact cost, but just to give you an idea...

$40 for the element
$5 for the water proof enclosure
$6 for lock nut and O-ring
$15 for the plug
$20 for the 8' cable and cable sleeve
----------------
about $90

 

[Joon1975]

I’m looking into buying the enclosure. I know it needs a ground post but is the black plate necessary?

 

[Joon1975]

Does it have to be steel? Is plastic fine?

 

[MikeSkril]

I’m looking into buying the enclosure. I know it needs a ground post but is the black plate necessary?

A back plate is not needed. I used screws to attach the components to the back. If you attach the control panel to a wall, the screws on the back won't matter.

 

[MikeSkril]

Does it have to be steel? Is plastic fine?

A cheap enclosure, like mine, should be around $15. You could use plastic or even wood, but as a real enclosure is cheap, I would go for a real box. You will need to use a 3rd terminal strip as ground strip if your panel is other then metal and without a ground post.

 

[ryanj]

So, I bought the same multimeter as you http://a.co/3bFWcTd but when I opened the box it didn't appear to come with a current pickup coil. I see you're using one in your application.

...do I need to buy one separately?

The model that I got claims "built-in current shunt"...is that the same thing?

 

[Hopbreakers]

So, I bought the same multimeter as you http://a.co/3bFWcTd but when I opened the box it didn't appear to come with a current pickup coil. I see you're using one in your application.
I bought everything on his list.
...do I need to buy one separately?

The model that I got claims "built-in current shunt"...is that the same thing?

I bought the item number he listed. It came in the box with the meter. Did you check the diagram and instructions? It looks like a circle with black electrical tape around it.

 

[ryanj]

I bought the item number he listed. It came in the box with the meter. Did you check the diagram and instructions? It looks like a circle with black electrical tape around it.

Yeah, I bought the same model he listed, but mine didn't come with one.

When I searched for the product on Amazon, there were 4 options. I chose the option that looked like what Mike had and bought it (LCD Volt Amp Power Energy Meter 20A). But now I'm seeing there is a 100amp option that LOOKS different but comes with the current coil...

Did I get the wrong one?

 

[Hopbreakers]

Yeah, I bought the same model he listed, but mine didn't come with one.

When I searched for the product on Amazon, there were 4 options. I chose the option that looked like what Mike had and bought it (LCD Volt Amp Power Energy Meter 20A). But now I'm seeing there is a 100amp option that LOOKS different but comes with the current coil...

Did I get the wrong one?

Here is the one that I purchased.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013PKYILS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[ryanj]

Here is the one that I purchased.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013PKYILS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Well that explains it. I bought the wrong one. Time to do a return.

Thanks!

 

[shoo]

Well that explains it. I bought the wrong one. Time to do a return.

Thanks!

Hold off on that return. A shunt also works, it just has to be wired differently than an induction coil. Look up a wiring diagram for details.

 

[ryanj]

Hold off on that return. A shunt also works, it just has to be wired differently than an induction coil. Look up a wiring diagram for details.

Well, the one I bought is good for 0-20 amps

Since I'm building a 30 amp panel, I really need a meter designed for up to 100 amps. Not a big deal -- already placed the order for the 100 amp model. I guess I just missed that detail on my first order.

 

[GParkins]

Hold off on that return. A shunt also works, it just has to be wired differently than an induction coil. Look up a wiring diagram for details.

Don't forget to fuse the shunt leads within 7" of the shunt. I see that happen frequently. Those little wires are still carrying AC voltage. Meters that use a current transformer (the donut) don't require fusing on the sensor leads.

 

[Turfgrass]

I can’t seem to find a 7amp fuse locally. Can the amperage go any higher without issue? Also trying to figure out why the breaker trips when I turn the panel key on. Checking wires again now.

 

[Turfgrass]

Would not having the fuse in place cause the breaker to trip? My thinking is no and I also did this to protect the components mounted in the door.

 

[MikeSkril]

I can’t seem to find a 7amp fuse locally. Can the amperage go any higher without issue? Also trying to figure out why the breaker trips when I turn the panel key on. Checking wires again now.

Would not having the fuse in place cause the breaker to trip? My thinking is no and I also did this to protect the components mounted in the door.

Hi there!

7amp, 8amp, 10amp fuse, it does not matter! We are just protecting the wires which can handle much more. Try to get a fuse between 7 and 10amps.

What is tripping? The main breaker, the GFCI breaker?

You should test the panel step by step. Connect only the main power contactor and the key switch. Turn it on and see if it works. Connect another component and test again. Step by step...

It's much harder to find a mistake when all is wired up and connected. Do one component / connection at a time.

Any question, let me know. Feel free to ask on my forum too...

 

[Turfgrass]

Thank you.

My 30amp gfi breaker was tripping in the sub panel I put together in the garage. I looked at the connects over again and realized I made a mistake at the key switch and that stopped the trip. I still need to get a fuse and power up.

I wish I had wired and checked for mistakes along the way by testing. I think the only other area that might have a potential problem is in the wiring of the pump, led buttons and maybe the selector switch. I wired this box of the summer and now just getting back to brewing. Any chance there is a wire diagram for the led lights and selector switch? I want to check my work, but I no longer have any printed material.

 

[Turfgrass]

 

[Turfgrass]

Here is the diagram for the selector and push button switches. Guessing lights on when pressed or switched.

 

[MikeSkril]

Here is the diagram for the selector and push button switches. Guessing lights on when pressed or switched.

Check this for the pump switches:
https://skrilnetz.net/E-HERMS/control-panel-qa/how-to-wire-the-pump-switch-with-integrated-led/

 

[MikeSkril]

I think the only other area that might have a potential problem is in the wiring of the pump, led buttons and maybe the selector switch.

Have a look at the wire diagram on how to wire the selector switch.