How to add just Ca?

[Stevo2569]

Hey guys. Water chemistry virgin. Been doing a lot of reading the last couple weeks and have a basic understanding of my water with a Ward Labs report. I'm sure to some of you this is simple or maybe not even necessary. Playing with Brewers Friend water calc trying to adjust for a English style. I want to add Ca but adding chalk or baking soda brings the HCO3 up too much. Gypsom= too much sulfate. Etc. So is there a way to bring just Ca levels up. My bicarbonate is already a little high. If I add 3 grams chalk and dilute with 50% distilled I can get to -30 Ca and +32 HCO3. Is this the best way to approach?
Thanks


pH 7.8
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 171
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.28
Cations / Anions, me/L 2.6 / 2.7
ppm
Sodium, Na 13
Potassium, K 2
Calcium, Ca 30
Magnesium, Mg 6
Total Hardness, CaCO3 100
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 8 X3=24
Chloride, Cl 23
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 92
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 75
Total Phosphorus, P 0.52
Total Iron, Fe < 0.01
"<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit

 

[DSmith]

Plugged your water report into EZ Water 3.0.1.

Assuming you skip the calk and use salts that are easily dissolvable...

If you diluted all your water with 50% RO or distilled and add 2g CaSO4 & 2g CaCl2 PER 5 gallons of water you'd end up with:

Mash Water / Total water (ppm):
Ca: 68
Mg: 3
Na: 7
Cl: 62
SO4: 71

You could reduce either the CaSO4 or CaCl2 to 1 g and increase the other to 3 g and affect the Cl & SO4 to your liking without affecting the Ca.

If the recipe is 90-95% base grain, you'll need to multiply your total grain weight by 0.03 and also add that much of 2% acid malt (Weyermann) to your mash. Better yet would be to download the EZ Water 3.0.1 spreadsheet and enter your water, dilutions, malt, salts and see what acid malt is required to get a mash pH between 5.4 & 5.6.

 

[bobbrews]

Your orginal water isn't really that bad. I don't think you need to dilute with distilled water. To combat alkalinity and boost calcium, you could look more into lime treatment (Calcium Hydroxide). Calcium Carbonate is an option - full absorption will be a problem, but perhaps someone else can offer ways to get the most out of it. Dissolving most of these additions/adjustments in cold water prior to brewing helps. You could also try using a combo of Calcium Chloride and Calcium Sulfate if you want to keep the sulfate in check. What beer style are you brewing next? Because the original sulfate and chloride levels are not really high at all... maybe for a stout, but that's negligible.

 

[ajdelange]

No, there is no way to increase just calcium. Every calcium ion (Ca++) comes paired with an anion or anions of equal negative charge i.e. one SO4--, two HCO3-, two Cl-, one CO3--, two (OH)-.

Thus if you wish to add calcium you must choose what else you want to add as well. The best choice in general is chloride. It almost always has a beneficial effect on beer though you can, as with anything else, overdo it. Sulfate is really the only other choice but sulfate has a harshening effect on hops which, while some like it, others find objectionable. Calcium carbonate or hydroxide (lime) is out unless you have mash that is acid enough to neutralize it or are prepared to add externally supplied acid to do that. If you add calcium carbonate or lime and neutralize with hydrochloric acid you are effectively adding calcium chloride so you might as well just do that and skip the acid addition. If you use lactic acid you are effectively adding calcium lactate and many home brewers do that up to the point where the lactate can be tasted. Another popular choice is phosphoric acid as phosphate is pretty flavor neutral.

 

[afr0byte]

To combat alkalinity and boost calcium, you could look more into lime treatment (Calcium Hydroxide).

To clarify for the OP, you can use lime softening to lower the alkalinity, but it won't up the calcium unless you add the calcium in some other form (calcium chloride or calcium sulfate).

 

[ResumeMan]

Thus if you wish to add calcium you must choose what else you want to add as well. The best choice in general is chloride.

That was the big missing link I noticed in the OP. You're right, all those other salts you mentioned are problematic. But you don't really need that much calcium, your chloride is pretty moderate, and the chloride is usually a nice thing to have in your beer anyway.

 

[Stevo2569]

Thanks for all the replies. Been working with EZ water calc and having a lot of trouble balancing everything with the chain reaction. Can someone please just show me so I can learn by example. Oops. Forgot to set to 50% distilled.
7.5 2-row
1.5 oat flaked
1.75 wheat
.5 smoked 9srm
.25 crystal 80.
Thanks

 

[afr0byte]

Thanks for all the replies. Been working with EZ water calc and having a lot of trouble balancing everything with the chain reaction. Can someone please just show me so I can learn by example.
7.5 2-row
1.5 oat flaked
1.75 wheat
.5 smoked 9srm
.25 crystal 80.
Thanks

Why not just set your strike and sparge water to be diluted with 50% distilled (RO is essentially distilled.) and then add enough calcium chloride to get your calcium up to 40-50? You'll probably want some acid/acid malt too.

 

[Stevo2569]

Ok. Being that this recipe is from the BYO 1503 Tudor, I decided on a new target listed as
London Well Water= Ca 52 Mg 32 Cl 34 Na 86 So4 32 HCO3 104
After Additions= 41 5 34 80 37 -173
25% mash water dilluted with Distilled
Additions 7 Oz Acid Malt to 5.5 PH
0.5 Gypsum
0.5 CaCl2
4.25 Baking Soda
Is the Bicarbonate acceptable? Pretty sure NO. What is a good source for CaCl2? Someone posted that "There is no need to add magnesium as malt is full of it." Is that correct?
Brewing this afternoon so any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Steve

Edit:Beersmith says something totally different. I'm confused and frustrated. Uhg.

 

[ajdelange]

Unless there is some special reason for wanting to do so you do not want to waste time and effort in trying to synthesize a particular brewing water profile. The reasons for this have been gone into so many times in the recent past in this forum that I will not repeat them. Just get a water with a decent amount of calcium (30 - 60 mg/L) and a decent amount of chloride (50 mg/L an up) plus sulfate if you are sure you like it.

A good level for bicarbonate is 0 unless the grist is acidic. To add bicarbonate properly (i.e. in the way nature does it which is the only way that you can actually reproduce a natural brewing water) is time consuming and a waste because it will usually be undone when the water is heated for mashing. Adding bicarbonate and acid (in the form of acid malt or any other form) cancel each other out and risk high acid anion levels i.e. at the level where they may be tasted. Skip the baking soda and use less acid malt.

Looking at your water you can just cut it 3:1 or 4:1 with RO and add a tsp of CaCl2 to 5 gal or half a tsp of CaCl2 and half of gypsum if you are sure you want sulfate. See the Primer in the Stickies.

CaCl2 can be had from a supermarket that sells canning supplies. It is sold as 'Pickle Crisp'.

Malt does contain a lot of magnesium and none is required unless you particularly want magnesium flavor (you probably don't).

 

[Stevo2569]

Well I'm trying to get as close as I can cause I would love to have a beer that our forefathers-forefathers drank. Like I said the recipe is from BYO 1503 Tudor. So I think my final version is to dilute 50% Distilled and add 2g Gypsom, 2g Table Salt, 3g Baking Soda.
Target
Ca 52 Mg 32 Cl 34 Na 86 So4 32 HCO3 104
After additions
Ca 28 Mg 3 Cl 48 Na 53 SO4 45 HCO3 109
Any modifications? Thanks guys.

 

[Yooper]

I don't like baking soda- but I probably couldn't taste it in small amounts. The sodium sure seems high to me, though. I'd ditch the table salt and baking soda, to reduce the sodium and replace it with calcium chloride which would also increase the calcium. (I see the "target" sodium is 86- that sure seems too high!)

 

[ajdelange]

Adding bicarbonate is usually a mistake but we can only offer our advice based on our experience. It is up to you to decide whether you choose to accept our advice or not.

Of course the beer that our forefathers drank was doubtless pretty wretched stuff compared to what we can make today but if that's what you want give me the profile you are trying to hit and I will tell you how to formulate it. You will have to bubble CO2 through the water for a couple of days and will require a pH meter for determining when enough CO2 has dissolved. It's a lot of trouble but if the target profile is 'real' I can match it.

 

[mabrungard]

+1 on not adding bicarbonate unless you are sure its needed. Bru'n Water has becarbonate levels in all the water profiles included with the program, but those are only first guesses for the brewer. The appropriate amount calculated is based on the grist and the mash parameters and this is secondary to prior experience with brewing that beer or using a pH meter. Do not use a water profile just because its from an area known for a particular style since many brewers in those locations do further treat and adjust their local water based on their experience. Going in blindly and brewing with the unadjusted profile could be trouble.