How slow is Wyeast Belgian Ale 1214?

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TheMattSmith

TheMattSmith

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I brewed up a Belgian Ale last night and pitched Wyeast 1214. 24 hrs later and nada. The Wyeast website said this strain is slow, but is 24 hours too long without seeing activity. I'm getting worried this was a bad smack pack and was thinking about getting a new one tomorrow and pitching that. Any thoughts?
 
Did you smack the pack several hours before brewing and did it swell? If it didn't it may be no good. Still, give it another day before taking a hydro sample.
 
I did smack it several hours before pitching and there was little to no swelling. This was the first time no swelling had ever happened to me. I will wait till tomorrow to take a reading, but will my beer still be good if I pitch a new smack pack?
 
Is this a high gravity Belgian ale? The higher the gravity and amount of oxygen, the more the yeast will reproduce, hence, the longer until fermentation starts. Combine that with a possible underpitching, and it could be up to 48 hours before you see activity. That's my guess, for what it's worth. I wouldn't worry until you hit the 2.5-3 day mark without visual signs of fermentation.
 
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/fermentation-can-take-24-72-hrs-show-visible-signs-43635/, and by visible signs we don't necessarily mean a bubbling airlock.

It IS a sticky at the top of the beginners forum for a reason, afterall. ;)

You should really have made a starter for any beer above 1.020. The biggest reason I suggest folks make a starter is if you make one you'll have peace of mind.

Making a starter first insures that your yeast is still alive and viable before you dump it in your beer. You will be less likely to start one of those "is my yeast dead?" threads that are on here every day.

You will also ensure that you have enough yeast usually the tubes and smack packs are a lot less yeast that you really should use for healthy fermentation.

Making a starter also usually means your beer will take off sooner, because the first thing that the little buggers do in the presence of wort (whether in a flask or in a fermenter) is have an orgy to reproduce enough cells to do the job...So it won't take such a long time in the fermenter since they started doing it in the flask.

Additionally it is better for the yeast to consume and reproduce incrementally rather than just dumping them into the fermenter...The yeast will be less stressed out than if you just dump them in.

Stressed out yeast can lead to a lot of off flavors...maybe even (though rare) the dreaded autolysis....Or the curse of 1.030....getting a stuck fermentation because the yeast have bit the dust.

So making a starter proves your yeast is still healthy, allows you to grow enough yeast to do the job, cuts down on lag time, and ensures that you will not get off flavors or stuck ferementations from stressed out yeast.

But the bottom line is that it is too soon to worry yet. Oh and by the way who cares if your airlock bubbles or not. It doesn't matter whether or not you have a single bubble in the airlock. It's not a magic fermentation gauge, it's a VALVE, and vent to release EXCESS co2, and to keep your ceiling from being painted by your beer. It doesn't matter one whit, whether or not you get a single bubble in your airlock. Plenty of beers ferment without it happening.

If you are really worried, THEN after 72 hours take a hydrometer reading then you will know.


The only way to truly know what is going on in your fermenter is with your hydrometer. Like I said here in my blog, which I encourage you to read, Think evaluation before action you sure as HELL wouldn't want a doctor to start cutting on you unless he used the proper diagnostic instuments like x-rays first, right? You wouldn't want him to just take a look in your eyes briefly and say "I'm cutting into your chest first thing in the morning." You would want them to use the right diagnostic tools before the slice and dice, right? You'd cry malpractice, I would hope, if they didn't say they were sending you for an MRI and other things before going in....

:mug:
 
I recently pitched Belgium Strong 1388. The smack pack was about 8 months old, and I was concerned when it didn't expand after many hours. I used it in a starter anyway, and even then the activity was hardly noticeable, however the hydrometer told me fermentation had occurred.

I was still a little leery of pitching it, but I did and it worked out just fine, krausen began to form within a few hours. As others have said, be sure your a pitching the right quantity and have oxygenated the wort.

I've since read that at least some Belgium yeast strains don't exhibit fermentation activity as robust as many other common ale yeasts, and in my case that seem to prove true.
 
My starter took 2 days to finish, it usually takes one. I didn't notice any lag time on the beer though, it was only about 4.5% ABV. I am really liking 1214.
 
You should use a starter.

I used this yeast recently with a 1.096 beer. I popped the pack about 24 hours before making a starter and it didn't even swell all the way in that time. The first step of the starter, it was pretty slow to get started. I made a 4 step starter with this one because of the high gravity, though, and the subsequent steps all started up very fast, as did the fermentation on the beer itself. On the beer, the yeast was started within 5 hours and the beer went from 1.096 to 1.012 (1 kg of sugar was used in this beer too, though).
 
MattHollingsworth said:
The first step of the starter, it was pretty slow to get started.
Click to expand...

Same with WLP500 in my recent experience. Starter took over a day just to get going, but the main beer had an inch of kraeusen within 12 hours! It's just a strain that needs waking up, apparently.
 
It says on the description that it can be a slow starter, but I've never had that problem with 1214.

I'm a big fan of that yeast. It doesn't want to crawl out of the fermenter, so a blow-off tube is unnecessary most of the time. My best results came from starting fermentation at 64f.
 
Just experienced this myself...a 2 month old pouch of 1214...at 36 hours it still looked like it was a dead bag...at 24 hours it was inflated although not completely...at least I'll know next time to start it way sooner and to get a starter going as well.
 
In my experience 1214 has a dominant banana flavor ad a subtle spice. Not sure it's going to give you the profile you're looking for.
 
You should be fine with this one and it will most likely still be a great beer. In the future making a starter is highly recommended (unless using dry yeast which you just rehydrate in water). The smack packs have 100 billion cells but for a 1.048 beer you want at least 180 billion cells for 5.25 gallons so you need to make a starter to get your cell count high enough.

There are several reasons you want this high cell count. Under pitching the yeast means the yeast you have in there has to work harder which stresses it and stressed yeast can create slight off flavors. Also no matter how well you sanitize everything you are still going to get some other bugs in your wort. These other bugs will also munch on the sugars and create off flavors until the yeast really gets going which will then outcompete these other sugar eating critters. Once the yeast eats all the sugars these bugs will starve and will not be able to impart any more off flavors. So if you make a starter you get an active fermentation sooner which leaves less of a window for he bad bugs to create off flavors. These off flavors are usually very slight an will not ruin your beer unless you get too lax about sanitation and get a ton of them in there. However, I'm sure you want to make the best beer possible and making a starter is a very worthwhile step toward making the best beer possible.
 
I'm using 1214 for the first time right now in a 1.046 Belgian pale ale. I've read it can stall out if there's a drop in temperature, and I'm hoping it hasn't happened to me.

I made no-shake starter 24 hours before pitching, which I extended to 36 hours due to lack of krausen. Just a precaution. Pitched at midnight Sunday and saw signs of activity by 7am Monday. Fully active by 5pm same day, and now flatlining at 6pm Tuesday. Thick layer of trub on the bottom now, with lots of yeast still in suspension and a solid 1" krausen sitting on top.

I brew to seasonal temps, so I started at a warmish 68-70F (sat fermentor on cool basement floor), and later moved to countertop, allowing free-rise to about 78F over the first 1.5 days of activity. Activity slowed as of Tuesday morning so I applied low heat to maintain 78F, and that's where it sits now.

Either I successfully contained this wild beast, or it crapped out on me before fully attenuating.
 
I'm curious to know about how long people are having their 1214 starter take? Mine is 12 hours on the stir plate now @70F, zero signs of anything yet but it's early. First time using the strain. Like others the pack didn't puff much.
 
JulietKilo said:
I'm curious to know about how long people are having their 1214 starter take? Mine is 12 hours on the stir plate now @70F, zero signs of anything yet but it's early. First time using the strain. Like others the pack didn't puff much.
Click to expand...

My starter showed very little activity, but the main batch kicked off quickly anyway.
 
I wonder if aeration/temp would affect the slow start of this yeast.

I would like to try two starters and blast one with pure o2 and keep it around 22-24c and the other just normal shaking and at 18-20c

Not that it matters but I'm sure some are concerned about contamination with the lag time.

I do no chill so it's a little bit of a worry for me sometimes since my wort will be sitting around for two days if a yeast doesn't take off quick enough.
 
rhys333 said:
My starter showed very little activity, but the main batch kicked off quickly anyway.
Click to expand...

Same here. At 50hrs starter finally seemed ready, pitched a Tripel/Golden with it, 12hrs later primary needed a blow-off which is rare for me.
 
Really freakin slow. Painfully so

Smacked the pouch and waited 4 hours... nada. Prepped my started on a stir plate with nutrient and spun for 18 hours... nada. Decided to pitch it anyway (knowing I've got some backup yeast), 12 hours nada. 24 hours nada. 36 hours nada.

FINALLY after 40 hours it started up (68f the whole time). I was just about ready to repitch. Going good now and starting to see the temp push up slightly.

Be patient. 1214 runs at its own schedule.

Oh, it's a Belgian style Oktoberfest inspired ale ( German Hops and grain. Belgian yeast and spice) Should be 7.0 / 30 ibu
 
First 48hrs it was very active at the trap, now at about 60 just the occasional bloop. In contrast to my 3787 which was slower but steady for much longer. Time will tell.
 
Hehe.... glad I joined this community - I’m in the same boat as many posters and only pitched 1214 about 8 hours ago so I’ll just sit and be patient :)

I’m only making 1 gallon batches so, for me at least, making a starter (as much as it does make sense based on my reading) may not “make sense” from a cost perspective. I am only getting back into brewing after 25+ years so this would mean buying more equipment that may not be warranted for 1 gallon - if I ever go larger (I’m the only one who drinks beer in my home..hence the 1 gallon batches) then I may consider the equipment for a starter.

Cheers,
Dave
 
Having some trouble with this yeast strain. I pitched around midnight Wednesday (9/7) and still not have not seen any activity in the airlock. I can smell what I think is a little alcohol from the airlock but I may be mistaken.

The OG was 1.060, and I added a hefty pitch of yeast nutrient into the boil at 10 minutes. I have about 4 gallons of wort that needs to be fermented. The one thing thats bothering me - and honestly probably is the culprit - is that the yeast I grabbed from my LHBS was old. It was packaged in November 2017. I figured I would be able to avoid some of the issues by slapping it well before pitch time, adding the nutrient, and having a low volume batch.

At this point, I'm scared that this batch is pretty much a dud. I've never been in this position, should I just dump it if I don't see anything in a few days?
 
Just pitched some 1214 that I harvested from a Belgian Strong Ale I made this past August into a dubbel. Did a two-step starter to get it going again. After pitching it at 68° the temp was raised to 72° and so far it's been one of the most bizarre fermentations I've ever had. It's definitely fermenting away, but there is ZERO krausen! I've never had that happen before. I'll let it ride for another week or so before I check the gravity, but I'm positive there's something going on in there. You just wouldn't know it based on krausen level (there is none!). And no, I did not use Fermcap-S in the boil.

This is in contrast to the other Belgian I'm fermenting with 3522 (Ardennes) yeast. It damn near required a blow-off tube.
 
One thing I do when I have a slow-starter is carefully give the fermenter a gentle swirl to see if there is any de-gassing going on. Any oxygen added this way before krausen should be beneficial to the yeast.

@RedIvan16 if you can get a backup yeast, its never a bad idea. I usually try to keep some dry yeast on hand, just in case.
 
Thanks for the reply, @Kent88. I've never done that before, should I just throw it into the fermentor as soon as possible?

Update: As of this weekend, primary fermentation has started but its moving very slowly. In 2 days it went from 1.060 to 1.050. I'm hoping it cleans up quick because I still need to condition it, force carb it, and have it ready for Easter dinner. My target FG is about 1.012-1.014. Any tips on accelerating fermentation?
 
I can't provide the link, but I think I remember a podcast from The Brewing Network where they discuss adding another yeast to restart fermentation. They recommended making a starter to wake the new yeast up before it gets added to the fermenter. Just a few hours in a starter should be all you need to wake the yeast up for that.
 

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