How Screwed Am I?

[freisste]

I'll try to keep this short. I brewed an Oktoberfest all grain BIAB. I was kind of in a hurry to get this brewed because I only have a couple more weeks before my root cellar goes from "winter mode" (low 50s) to "summer mode" which is considerably warmer and less stable (sun hits the concrete pad in the afternoon).

I was a little paranoid about this batch considering it was my first lager, so I was freaking out about yeast pitch rate and temperature. I overcame the yeast issue with yeastcalc.com and a two step starter. The temps still had me worried. I put a one gallon bag full of water in the freezer so I would have one big ice cube to help me cool it off. I figured i had everything under control and my worries were eased.

Flash forward to brew day. Everything went great until chilling time. I ran my IC way longer than I expected (multitasking before work). An got the temp of my 3+ gallons of wort down to about 60*f. Dropped in my giant ice cube and a little more cold water to get up to 4.5 gallons (a little weird, I know, but it was as much as I could get based on grain mashing limitations and still be to style).

So now I look and realize that the giant ice cube is not melting as fast as it should. I figured it was fine, temp was low 50s so it was ok to pitch the yeast. I did so, checked gravity (1.070! Compared to estimated 1.054...but I remembered my volume was still low because of my giant ice cube, so I relaxed a minute, did a little math in my head and figured I was in the ballpark with ~3.5 gal vs 4.5), and put the lid and airlock on. I put it in my root cellar and went to work.

Got home and the strip on the side said it was in the 30s! I rocked the bucket and heard my giant ice cube hitting the sides. DAMN YOU, GIANT ICE CUBE! My worst idea ever. So I moved it to a different part of the basement where it is warmer and went to bed. Checked the strip this morning before work and it was in the high 40s. (Yeast was Wyeast 2633 Oktoberfest lager blend, btw, which has an ideal range of 48-58*f.) I swirled the bucket hoping to get a little yeast in suspension and left for work.

Ok, story time is over. How worried should I be about this batch? I know, RDWHAHB (but I'm at work and drinking is frowned upon). I also didn't see any airlock activity (which is neither expected or a good indication if fermentation, I know). I'm hoping everybody says "no problem, swirl it a little and it will get going" or something like that. I'd also love to hear "don't do anything" before i start going crazy and trying to "fix things." I'd just really hate to have a bad experience with my first AG and my first lager.

 

[BridgeBrew]

LOL you made me chuckle with the ice cube comment!!

I think you should be ok. The yeast were probably wondering wtf is going on here!! Its too damn cold. With you rousing the yeast and the temps back in that ideal range, they should start to do their work. Keep an eye on them and your temps and hopefully you see some activity in 24hrs or so.

 

[unionrdr]

It has to get up to,at least,the minimum temp of the yeasts' range first. Then swirl it up & give it at least a day to go through the reproductive phase that was stopped cold by the very low temps. After that,watch the temp to keep it within range. Even the upper limit of the range seems to work fine.
I had this happen on batch2 of fat tuesday week when I got the wort too cold. It wound up finishing lower,near FG,then the light colored one with the same yeast at the two week mark.
So be patient,it should warm up & get going with a swirl at that point in time.

 

[Brulosopher]

Keep it in the high 40s to low 50s for a week or two and you're good to go! Then you can raise it up to 65 for 3 days for a D rest, crash cool, lager. Boom!

 

[kombat]

You'll be fine. I wouldn't even bother swirling - lager yeast is "bottom fermenting," it'll wake up and get to work just fine once it stops shivering.

 

[unionrdr]

Ha. I like the sound of that. kinda funny to picture. But yeah,even though it is bottom fermenting,I always thought since it's just compacting sitting down there,that it can't hurt to get'em in suspension again.

 

[freisste]

Thanks, everybody. Exactly what I wanted to hear.

It figures, I thought I had the next great thing in partial boil brewing and it blows up in my face.

I'll make sure it gets into the yeast's preferred range before giving a little swirl, just because I know I won't be able to keep my hands off of it (this is the least invasive way for me to "fix" it). Then back to the low end of the temp range until I check for diacetyl.

Last thing - can anybody think of any potential issues I may have on this batch due to my giant ice cube? Harder to get to FG, etc? Thanks again.

 

[freisste]

Thanks again, everybody.

Quick recap:
Thurs am - brewed and pitched yeast (with giant ice cube), 50*f (clearly not at equilibrium). Moved to root cellar - high 40s ambient.

Thurs pm - under 40*f, still has a giant ice cube. No accurate temp because I didn't open the bucket. I don't know how the temp strip reads below its minimum temperature. Moved to warmer place.

Fri am - up to 45/46*f. I am getting hopeful.

Fri pm - up to 57*f. No airlock activity, but I swirled to get a little yeast in suspension and a ton of off-gassing occurred. Guessing it was dissolved CO2 in solution released by disturbing it. Makes me think it is fermenting. Moved it back to the cold cellar. Too soon?

I didn't want to open it to look for krausen (do I expect that with a lager? I know it is bottom fermenting, I just don't know what that means!) so I can't confirm, but I think I am all set. Thanks again for easing my worries and keeping me from making any rash decisions.

 

[BridgeBrew]

Dont keep opening up the fermentor!! You increase the risk of contamination. You need to get those temps stabilized,48-52 degrees or you will get diacetyl that wont be eaten up with the D-rest. I would do a D-rest for sure now with the temps of the wort in the upper 50's. Now sit back relax and have a homebrew and let the yeast do their magic!!

 

[freisste]

I've never opened it. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

[BridgeBrew]

OH DUH, maybe i should have read your last line of the previous post.... sorry man. Are you getting any airlock activity?

 

[freisste]

I don't have a good temperature control system and my root cellar is just a little cooler than I thought. So I have been intermittently rotating between two locations - one a little cool at 45, the other a little warm at 55. I've been watching the stick on thermometer I try to keep it at 49-51. It does bubble a little and I can tell by the smell that I'm moving in the right direction. I'm going to wait a few days and check gravity and for diacetyl.

When is too early for a d-rest? I've heard to shoot for 75-80% fermentation, but what if I warm it too early? Say 50%? Just curious. Thanks.

 

[freisste]

Quick update: sitting right at 50 and slowly but surely bubbling. Happy yeasties are my favorite yeasties.

 

[freisste]

Quick update: sitting right at 50 and slowly but surely bubbling. Happy yeasties are my favorite yeasties.

 

[BridgeBrew]

Be patient and wait at least 4 days. Then take a gravity reading. You should be around that 75-80%,but the only true measure is gravity readings. Those temps will be perfect.

 

[freisste]

Ok. I'm just worried that I didn't have great temp control at first so I will probably have diacetyl. I want to make sure I can do an effective rest

 

[freisste]

Ok. I'm just worried that I didn't have great temp control at first so I will probably have diacetyl. I want to make sure I can do an effective rest

 

[BridgeBrew]

Understandable, and thats why you need to check the gravity in that day 4 area. Hopefully you catch the yeast while they still have enough work to do and they can clean the diacetyl and other things up in the wort. When you get in that 75-80% range move the fermentor up to 65ish degrees and they will do their thing for you.

 

[freisste]

Sounds good. Thanks for the advice.

 

[freisste]

Worst fears realized. (Ok, maybe not WORST fears.) I checked the gravity when I got home from work, and I am at 1.014 (right on target). Thick, disgusting krausen on top, so that's good. I just moved it up to warmer climates (my bedroom closet).

How long should the diacetyl rest take? I've heard 24-48 hours, but I have also heard its better to catch the tail end of fermentation, which I missed. Should I leave it longer? I don't have any pressing needs to start lagering; would it be an issue to leave this in the closet for a week? I didn't notice any buttery taste or a slickness to it when I drank the hydrometer sample, but I wasn't really thinking when I did it so I wasn't specifically looking for it. I've also heard not everybody can taste diacetyl.

Is there a harm to an extended diacetyl rest? Thanks.

 

[BridgeBrew]

Let that baby warm up in your closet for 2 days and then drop it back down to 48-52 again to finish off your total fermentation time. You never know if this beer may actually finish lower than 1.014. You may be surprised and it hits 1.010. This is all in precation anyway. If your temps were in the yeasts range the whole time there may have never been any diacetyl. Relax let that baby hang in that fermentation bucket for a couple weeks and then get it lagering.

 

[freisste]

Good call. I guess it never occurred to me (not that it is unbelievable, I AM still pretty new) that it might finish lower than target.

Ok. Plan moving forward: Two days in my closet at about 65-67*f, then back to the root cellar at 45ish (depending on weather), then to the keggerator to lager for like 30 days (can't remember the recipe).

Thanks again for your help. I really appreciate it. This forum is AMAZING!

 

[BridgeBrew]

Np man, hope it turns out super tasty!!

 

[freisste]

I'll let you know in a couple months. No need to rush this one to bottle/keg because I don't even really want it until late summer (traditional Oktoberfest timeframe). I was just in a hurry to get it going before my cellar got too hot.

 

[Mdsutton]

How did it turn out?

 

[freisste]

I think it is really good. I gave it to a couple friends who said it was Sam Adam's Oktoberfest-ish but that try preferred it. There are definitely some things I would do differently, but until I work out a fermentation chamber, I'm certainly happy with this as my first lager. I'll be less intimidated next time.

However, I entered it into a competition and they didn't seem to think much of it. But I got some good feedback, which is always good.