how much yeast for imperial stout?

[whooody]

I'm pretty new to homebrewing but have been reading alot. My cousin asked me if he could brew with me to try it out. I told him to purchase a extract kit online and that I would help him. He purchased an imperial stout with a OG of 1.1 but only purchased one vial of White Labs California Ale Yeast WLP001. I know with higher gravity worts you need to pitch more yeast. It didn't seem like this was enough. If I make a starter a few days before will I have enough viable cells? I tried the mrmalty calculator but was a little confused. I don't have any aeration equipment or a stir plate. Any info or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

[prandlesc]

Buy two more vials.

 

[David_Trucks]

Buy two more vials.

I disagree. Although I'm still very new, I pitched one packet of US-05 to my IIPA with an OG of 1.090 and it turned out fine. I say make a starter and you're good. But, again, I'm new to this so keep that in mind.

EDIT: Oops sorry, I pitched WLP001 and it turned out fine. I did not do a starter.

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[Qhrumphf]

One vial of yeast for 1.100 is nowhere near enough. If you don't know how to properly make a starter, just buy more yeast. It's safer and easier, although more expensive. Based on the age my yeast is when I get it from my LHBS, at the gravity you're talking about 3 vials should be workable, but 4 would be better.

Although, for a beer like that, you also want to make damned sure that you're also aerating very well (if you can't use an air pump or ideally pure O2, then at least splash multiple times between sanitized buckets), and that you're controlling your fermentation temperatures. You'll also probably want to set up a blowoff tube right from the start.

 

[GuldTuborg]

What was confusing about the Mr Malty calculator?

 

[Toilet Rocker]

I recently brewed a RIS (OG: 1.093) and built my starter over 4 days before chilling and decanting from the growler. It took off like a banshee and is still chugging along rapidly nearly a week later.

 

[whooody]

On the mr malty calculator it told

1. how many vials of yeast without starter
2. vials or packs needed with a starter
3. liters of starter

what is "vials or packs with a starter"? Do I need to have 2 vials even if I'm going to make a starter? If so why couldn't I just build the starter up to the 3.24 liters over a few days with one vial? Also, will pitching large quantities of starter, 3 - 3.5L or so, affect the flavor of the stout?

my settings on mr malty

and thanks so much for all the answers. I'd definitely prefer to learn from y'alls experiences.

 

[jack_a_roe]

you can certainly keep stepping up and up and up but just know that each step up you create less and less cells. so basically if you want enough yeast inside a week, you probably want to start with 2 vials and just step up as much as you can before brew day. also if you know you're going to underpitch for whatever reason, i've found more O2 than the norm can help get the attenuation you want/need.

 

[Yooper]

On the mr malty calculator it told

1. how many vials of yeast without starter
2. vials or packs needed with a starter
3. liters of starter

what is "vials or packs with a starter"? Do I need to have 2 vials even if I'm going to make a starter? If so why couldn't I just build the starter up to the 3.24 liters over a few days with one vial? Also, will pitching large quantities of starter, 3 - 3.5L or so, affect the flavor of the stout?

my settings on mr malty

and thanks so much for all the answers. I'd definitely prefer to learn from y'alls experiences.

Slide the bottom slider to "use fewer yeast packs", all the way to the right. See what sized starter is recommended if you start with one pack.

You may need to do a couple of step-ups. That is, make a starter and then when it's done, add more starter wort or decant and start again. With a 1.100 OG beer, you need a LOT more than one pack of yeast! Either buy 3 more vials, or make a starter starting right now(doing a couple of step ups), or buy one more vial and make a starter according to mrmalty.

 

[Pappers_]

The advice above to just pitch a vial and not worry isn't the best, in my opinion. You are right to be thinking this through.

Making a starter is good, but as suggested above, its going to have to be a big starter - that's a big beer.

Another option not already offered would be to throw in a couple of packets of rehydrated US-05 with your vial of California. Same strain of yeast, but higher cell count.

FYI, what I did with my two most recent RISs was to make a batch of smaller beer with the yeast I wanted to use, save a big jar of the yeast slurry when I racked, then brew the RIS within a week and pitch the jar of yeast.

 

[David_Trucks]

I disagree. Although I'm still very new, I pitched one packet of US-05 to my IIPA with an OG of 1.090 and it turned out fine. I say make a starter and you're good. But, again, I'm new to this so keep that in mind.

EDIT: Oops sorry, I pitched WLP001 and it turned out fine. I did not do a starter.

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I stand corrected. I shall ban myself from posting for one week. This is why I love HBT - I learn many things every day, even if I don't intend too.


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[Pappers_]

I stand corrected. I shall ban myself from posting for one week. This is why I love HBT - I learn many things every day, even if I don't intend too.


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That's what I love about HBT, too. And please don't ban yourself, that's Yooper's job

 

[Yooper]

That's what I love about HBT, too. And please don't ban yourself, that's Yooper's job

Why am I always the bad guy?!?!?!

You know, I always overthink everything but reading over the other posts, Pappers advice to just add some dry S05 yeast is simple, easy, and probably best if you want to brew this weekend.

Or use 100% S05, by buying two packages, and save the WLP001 for another batch.

While it's true that using one vial may work in the sense that reproduction of yeast and fermentation will occur, there is a greater chance that the yeast will be stressed due to the very high OG and off flavors may result, as well as incomplete ("stuck") fermentation near the end. Underpitching slightly may not have huge effects, but with a 1.100 beer underpitching with one vial is just asking for a problem.

 

[kcmobrewer]

Or you could brew a smaller beer like stated above, and just rack the RIS on top of that yeast cake after moving to another vessel. Done that a few times, works great.

 

[GuldTuborg]

Right. The real question is not if a single vial is sufficient to effect (not affect, mind you) fermentation - of course it is - but rather how much better a properly sized starter would make it.

 

[prandlesc]

The advice above to just pitch a vial and not worry isn't the best, in my opinion.

This is bad advice.

You need a big starter. A 2L stepped at least once or a 4L starter, or 3-4 vials/packs of fresh yeast. Pitching a single vial will most likely result in a poor quality beer at the OG you described. If you have a few days before brew day, make a BIG starter - otherwise buy some additional yeast. I got the impression from your first post that you were new to brewing and may not have the right equipment to make a good starter - 2L or 4L flask, stir plate, stir bar, etc. You can't shortchange building a starter of healthy yeast. And if you can't build a solid starter, you should just buy some additional yeast. Adding a quarter a bottle in cost is well worth it. If you share a bad beer that you made with your friends, you won't be thinking "I'm glad I cut costs on this and didn't spend the $ on yeast."

 

[logdrum]

I find this calculator easier for multiple stepped starters:



http://www.yeastcalculator.com/



but since time is of the essence, I would probably just use US-05

 

[whooody]

First thanks for all the answers.

Ok so to review what I've picked up so far.

1. there are more viable cells in a dry yeast pack than liquid.
2. liquid yeast has a higher concentration of cells than a starter of the same volume.
3. without the right equipment creating a cell dense starter in the amount I need will be difficult

My last question. If dry yeasts have higher cell counts and therefore work better for bigger beers what is the advantage (if any) of liquid yeasts or starters?

 

[Qhrumphf]

First thanks for all the answers.

Ok so to review what I've picked up so far.

1. there are more viable cells in a dry yeast pack than liquid.
2. liquid yeast has a higher concentration of cells than a starter of the same volume.
3. without the right equipment creating a cell dense starter in the amount I need will be difficult

My last question. If dry yeasts have higher cell counts and therefore work better for bigger beers what is the advantage (if any) of liquid yeasts or starters?

Variety. Plain and simple.

 

[RyanWal26]

Couple of things..i wrote a big long answer but ill save that for later time... Each liquid yeast packet comes with about 100 billion cells. You need at least 200-300 (2-3 packets) billion cells. Rest assured most home brewers under pitch and get away with it but its not good practice and you will never get great beer.

Create a yeast starter however note that you can't just keep feeding the yeast wort and expecting them to grow..when they hit a certain concentration they stop/slow their reproduction very rapidly. Typically in a 1 liter starter of 1.030-1.040 wort you will add another 50 billion cells. About half of what you need from a typical brew but better than 100 billion. "Make a starter with 200 grams. of DME placed in 2 liters of water this will give you about 200 billion cells after 24-48 hours". If you do this without a stir plate note that you will have to shake it at least once per hour if not once every 30 minutes to get rid of the dissolved CO2 and add dissolved O2. \

My recommendation if you are going to be brewing on a regular basis (more than twice a year) go out and buy a stir plate. They are cheap, the one i bought has a lifetime warranty and they will make great beer.

Also if you use dry yeast REHYDRATE it. White labs found that "skipping rehydration kills about half the cells pitched".