1 lb grain occupies 0.32 quarts when saturated (according to Promash).
-a.
Not quite sure what you mean by water absorption.
If the grains are fully saturated, then they will have absorbed a certain amount of water.
If you add 1 lb grain to 1 qt water, then the mixture will take up a volume of 1.032 qts.
-a.
Hang on a second there. You are not discounting the amount of water that is absorbed into the grain, which is something like .13 gallons per pound.
Or maybe you are accounting for that, and if that is the case, then your previous statement is wrong.
My take on the original post was that 1 lb of soaking wet grain occupies a volume of .32 quarts, without any other water there.
I believe AJF is correct.
Maybe you're confusing me and I'm misunderstanding you, but why would the amount of water absorbed while the grains and water are in a mixture make a difference in final volume? Once in a mixture (that is the grains completely submerged in the water and the water fully absorbed) the volume will be same, no matter what. Regardless of amount of water absorbed, etc.
Hang on a second there. You are not discounting the amount of water that is absorbed into the grain, which is something like .13 gallons per pound.
Or maybe you are accounting for that, and if that is the case, then your previous statement is wrong.
Seems he would be right because were talking about volume not absorbtion. If the 1 lb. grain goes into 1 quart water it will be "absorbed" and then the resulting volume of the final product will be 1.32 quarts.
This is the way i understood it
think of it like this: after the grains are done absorbing water they are not taken out of the total volume. so even if .13 of the total begining water is absorbed into the grain the resulting volume of the saturated grain+total water(minus absorption) will be 1.32. is this correct AJF?
I believe AJF is correct.
Maybe you're confusing me and I'm misunderstanding you, but why would the amount of water absorbed while the grains and water are in a mixture create a difference in final volume? Once in a mixture (that is the grains completely submerged in the water and the water fully absorbed) the volume will be same, no matter what. Regardless of amount of water absorbed, etc.
1 lb grain occupies 0.32 quarts when saturated (according to Promash).
we are trying to figure out:
With the addition of 1 lb. of grains to 1 quart water how much VOLUME will be gained?
.08 gallons volume added (1 gallon+.08= 1.08 total water+grain volume)
I made a little spreadsheet with the following formula to ensure that my grain bill and strike water will fit in my mash tun:
Mash Volume (gal) = Weight of Grains (lbs) x (0.08 + Mash Thickness (qts/lb) /4 )
For example, 10 lbs. grain plus 3.75 gal. strike water would take up 4.55 gal. volume in your mash tun.
4.55 = 10 x (0.08 + 1.5 / 4)
awesome except u should express the equation in this manner to eliminate bad calculations
.08 + (1.5 / 4) x 10 = 4.55
or .08 + (mash thickness (qts/lb) / 4) x total lbs grain = total mash volume
if someone used your equation and added the .08 and 1.5 first and then divided by 4 it doesnt calculate out correctly
Actually there shouldn't be any confusion at all if you follow the standard mathematical order of operations! And if you set yourself up with a calculator, it's even less confusing
I think this answers my question as well, I just need to know if I start with x amount of water and have x pounds of grains bagged, how many gallons worth of room will this take in my mash kettle. I've got an 8 gallon kettle, so know I will need to either do the dip sparge in hot water then add it into the 8 gallon kettle, or top myself up to a full 5 gallons with cold water during wort chilling.no offense to anybody but seems the initial question is getting twisted and turned. We are talking about VOLUME not absorbtion, density, ect.... As stated before by AZ IPA the volume of one gallon of water will always be the same (1 gallon = 1 gallon) no matter what u put into it (As long as the absorbed grain isnt removed). You cannot ADD ANYTHING to water that will lessen its VOLUME (Impossible) !!! Realize that the grain have mass. Even if the grain have airspace or whatever else inside (room to absorb water) they still have mass so when you add one mass to another mass the result will be higher than one or the other by themselves . we are trying to figure out:
With the addition of 1 lb. of grains to 1 quart water how much VOLUME will be gained?
.08 gallons volume added (1 gallon+.08= 1.08 total water+grain volume)
The 0.32 quart expansion per pound of grain is very useful information, but I don't know where the 0.13 gallon water absorption loss per pound of grain comes from. I take careful measurements and keep spreadsheets on every batch, and I average half of that water loss due to grain absorption. Perhaps it is because I do BIAB with full water volume and squeeze the grains?
TomVA
Ps: to answer pricelessbrewing's questions, I've long noticed that the factory volume markings on fermenter buckets are often waaaay off the mark (perhaps this is why you asked me how I measure), so I used a large kitchen measuring pitcher to re-mark a fermenter bucket which I've since used to calculate my water volumes on brew day.
Thanks everybody!
sorry for off topic. You get a plus one for your name.I was just getting ready to post the OP's question, so please permit me to summarize the discussion here for the benefit of my feeble mind;
Given: I need to check that my kettle is big enough to soak X pounds of dry grains.
Therefore;
1. I put 1 gallon of clear water in the pot
2. I add 1 pound of dry grains
3. The grains ultimately soak up .13 gallons, leaving 0.87 gallons of theoretical" runnings, ignoring things such as equipment loss, etc.
4. Initially the dry grains float on the surface. As they soak up water, they sink into the water volume
5. Once fully saturated, the combination of grains and water occupy a total of 1 gallon plus .32 quarts, or .08 gallons. Therefore, to soak 1 pound of grains a pot of 1.08 gallons is required.
Therefore, If i have a grain bill of 12 pounds and want to end up with 7 gallons of runnings, I need a pot that will hold:
7 gallons + 1.56 gallons absorption + .96 gallons displacement=9.52 gallons (assuming I can boil "to the brim, which is silly, but this is beer math, what the hell)
AND I need to ultimately soak 7 gallons water plus 1.56 gallons absorption=8.56 gallons combined strike and sparge water.
I assume that mashing temps do not evaporate a volume of water sufficient to be significant for our purposes. (this is beer math in the basement, not in the lab)
The numbers given here are estimates. In addition to absorption there is also displacement ( the grains take up space). To add a personal data point, I have always used these figures in my brew-in-a-bag setup to verify my container is sufficient. Of course, I need not be particularly precise because my mash tun/kettle is 15 gallons and I don't do batches over 10 gallons. There are going to be variances based on deadspace in the bottom of the tun, moisture content of the grains, etc. If the batches you usually do are in danger of overflowing the tun, you need a bigger tun. If your sensibilities require more precision, I'd suggest you get a graduated water measure, a red oak dowel and a sharpie. Pour 2 quarts of water into the empty tun with the sparge braid in place. Place the dowel in the center and draw a line. Repeat until adding another container of water overflows the tun. That's your real capacity. Now place 4 gallons of mash temp water from your graduated stick into the tun. Add 4 pounds of milled grains and let it sit 30 minutes or so. Poke in the stick and see what the apparent volume is. Thats your volume factor. Repeat for as many grains as required to satisfy your sensibilities.
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