KonureKing
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Hello I was just wondering since Windsor Ale yeast is so rapid at fermentation is it also really fast at carbing the bottle? Thanks!
I found this to be true.Carbonated but with poor head retention or no heading, about 24 to 36 hours. Starting to get good heading, about a week. Decent heading at 2 weeks, really good heading with good lacing, about 3 weeks. Most ale yeasts will work at about this schedule if kept at room temp. Cooler temps mean longer times.
I found this to be true.
But I cannot explain to myself why this is happening. Why is a fully carbonated drink with no foam, retaining foam much better after two or three more weeks? I do not understand this.
Really, I don't, but I do want to know.
I don't think so. If that would be the case, head retention would be bad again, once the bottle is shaken. But that's not the case.Interesting.. I too find that beer can be fully carbonated but foam would be subpar. I assume certain compounds are messing with the foaming properties of the beer and giving it time to precipitate out of solution and settling means it wont interfere with the foam?
I found this to be true.
But I cannot explain to myself why this is happening. Why is a fully carbonated drink with no foam, retaining foam much better after two or three more weeks? I do not understand this.
Really, I don't, but I do want to know.
Entire batchesHow many bottles of poorly carbonated beer with no heading did you have to sacrifice to learn this? I've tried a couple at 24 hours at room temp followed by 24 in the refrigerator to find out about the carbonation without heading, a few more at a week to see how the heading had progressed, and more yet with the two week at room temp.
I also witnessed this moutufeel development in conjunction with the development in head retention. It's also a complete mystery to me.This whole process of carbonation/head development is a mystery to me as well...
Interestingly, I found that it happens the same no matter at what temperature you store the beer after the initial conditioning phase.
I usually just keep my ales about 1 week at room temp and then I will store them in my basement (temps between 55-68 depending on the season). For hoppy brews I will try to refrigerate as many bottles as I can after 1 week of conditioning at room temp.
Also there, the head and carbonation continues to develop while in the fridge. IME it dosn't even take necessary longer compared to the bottles stored in the basement (as others here stated, it usually takes 4-5 weeks to reach max. head retention and lacing).
So is the yeast a player in this process, or does it depend on other factors? (Yeast should actually go dormant at fridge temperatures...).
What are the experiences of the force-carbonating folks? Many claim that their beer is ready to enjoy as soon as carbonated...is there no more
positive development beyond that point? Why should there be a difference between bottle conditioned and force carbonated beer, if "CO2-is-CO2"?
The head development is visually obviuos, but I believe that the mouthfeel also improves significantly over this time period. The carbonation does not necessarily increase, but it somehow changes...
If someone has insights into this process, I'd be seriously interested, too...
Probably!Couldn't it be proteins decomposing and forming new compounds, the same with sugars and dextrins, altering foam and percieved taste/mouthfeel?
But I cannot explain to myself why this is happening. Why is a fully carbonated drink with no foam, retaining foam much better after two or three more weeks? I do not understand this.
Really, I don't, but I do want to know.
I don't think that this is the case here, as the yeast is not releasing the co2 into the air space but directly into the liquid. So if anything, it would be actually the opposite, the co2 would need time to reach equilibrium in the air space when coming out of solution.In engineering processes, we use terms for this phenomenon including "step change", "equilibrium", and "steady state". The way I see it, what is happening here when we prime a bottle is:
First the yeast starts eating the priming sugar, which produces CO2. This partially carbonates the beer but more than that it pressurizes the air space above the beer.
As the priming sugar continues to be consumed, more and more pressure builds up in that air space. If you open a bottle at this point, you will often hear quite a loud "POP", while the beer may or may not be well carbonated yet, and I think this just depends on the yeast strain and how active it is, the timing of opening it, several variables. The loud "POP" is because the head space was quite well pressurized, but the gas and liquid had not yet reached equilibrium.
Then after the air space is well pressurized while the priming sugar is mostly gone or all gone, then the CO2 from that space will steadily dissolve back into the beer until it reaches and equilibrium state with partial pressures in the gas and liquid phases. At this point of equilibrium, the beer is "fully carbonated". This takes the usual ~2 weeks.
So when we pop a bottle a little too fast, look for that loud "POP" and know that the beer is really not fully carbonated yet.
You might also hear a lack of any pop whatsoever. In that case, the yeast is sluggish and it will just take an extra week or two to finish eating the priming sugar and finish the job.
In the case of Windsor (or M15, which is very closely related), I do think you'll get full carbonation quicker than many other yeasts, since this yeast is such a major beast, finishing any fermentation in 40-48 hours. But then like I said it still can take a few days for the CO2 produced to dissolve back into the beer until it reaches the end state of equilibrium.
Hope this helps.
I don't think that this is the case here, as the yeast is not releasing the co2 into the air space but directly into the liquid. So if anything, it would be actually the opposite, the co2 would need time to reach equilibrium in the air space when coming out of solution.
Yes, but that is happening not within room pressure but within an already pressurised environment. This means, the co2 that wants to be gas, is only allowed to be gas when the pressure in the head (and within the solution, same pressure) allows this. So only the amount goes out of solution, that is allowed allowed for. Not more. This means, once there is no more co2 being produced, the equilibrium is already there, or, if your want to be really precise, there is a tiny bit more co2 in solution that the pressure actually allows for, so equilibrium is close.Chemical reactions love it when a gas is formed. Molecules love to be gas, I guess.
Any fermentation I've ever seen, there is CO2 coming out of solution vigorously, and out through the airlock. In the bottle, this same CO2 is released but is all trapped in the head space. Over time, some but not all of this CO2 dissolves back into the beer as carbonic acid. That's my thinking on it.
As the priming sugar continues to be consumed, more and more pressure builds up in that air space. If you open a bottle at this point, you will often hear quite a loud "POP", while the beer may or may not be well carbonated yet, and I think this just depends on the yeast strain and how active it is, the timing of opening it, several variables. The loud "POP" is because the head space was quite well pressurized, but the gas and liquid had not yet reached equilibrium.
First the yeast starts eating the priming sugar, which produces CO2. This partially carbonates the beer but more than that it pressurizes the air space above the beer.
The head development is visually obviuos, but I believe that the mouthfeel also improves significantly over this time period. The carbonation does not necessarily increase, but it somehow changes...
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