How important is clear beer to you?

Williams 728
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bigmack said:
i think everyone who doesn't make beer so clear that you can take a vision test from 20 feet away and pass easily without finings or cold-crashing should just go ahead and commit seppuku. I mean, if you can't do that is there really any point in even brewing....?
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*ftfy*
 
Flavor matters most. Clear just doesn't matter much to me. When it comes to the beer that I brew, for me to drink, the only judge that matters is me.
 
BigMack said:
I think everyone who doesn't make beer so clear that you can take a vision test from 20 feet away and pass easily should just go ahead and commit seppuku. I mean, if you can't do that is there really any point in even brewing....?
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Life is pointless without clear beer, for sure. Seppuku for all hazy beers!
 
I love homebrew beer. Now if someone gave me a clear glass of their homebrew I'd be suspicious. They may be actually giving me something they bought at Woodmans. Not that I don't like microbrews, there's some great ones out there. I just hate someone claiming them as their own. If the beer is hazy I'm pretty sure they homebrewed them. I've no patience for beer snobs.
 
idiotsinc said:
I love homebrew beer. Now if someone gave me a clear glass of their homebrew I'd be suspicious. They may be actually giving me something they bought at Woodmans. Not that I don't like microbrews, there's some great ones out there. I just hate someone claiming them as their own. If the beer is hazy I'm pretty sure they homebrewed them. I've no patience for beer snobs.
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But I can brew, and my beers are clear. I'm not sure I understand why you wouldn't drink it, and would want a murky beer instead.

Most cloudy/hazy/murky beers are not all that great, and the suggestion to "drink it in a ceramic mug" are amusing but really not all that great. Some, if not most, of the problems that create a beer with a murky appearance do have a flavor impact.
 
Yooper said:
But I can brew, and my beers are clear. I'm not sure I understand why you wouldn't drink it, and would want a murky beer instead.

Most cloudy/hazy/murky beers are not all that great, and the suggestion to "drink it in a ceramic mug" are amusing but really not all that great. Some, if not most, of the problems that create a beer with a murky appearance do have a flavor impact.
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I agree, my red rye ale is hazy due to some mistakes on brew day and it's no where near as good as the last time I brewed it which came out crystal clear. Its still a decent brew and drinkable but it's the difference between a great beer and a good beer.
 
idiotsinc said:
I love homebrew beer. Now if someone gave me a clear glass of their homebrew I'd be suspicious. They may be actually giving me something they bought at Woodmans. Not that I don't like microbrews, there's some great ones out there. I just hate someone claiming them as their own. If the beer is hazy I'm pretty sure they homebrewed them. I've no patience for beer snobs.
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^ Funny things I've overheard about beer.
 
I use irish moss in any beer that is not a stout or porter. It costs next to nothing so no big deal, while I would love for my beers to turn out crystal clear, honestly if they taste good I do not care.
 
I don't get why people decide to set the bar so low for themselves.

I can't imagine setting out to cook a meal for folks and not try to make it to the best of my abilities and present it in an appealing and hopefully mouthwatering way.

"I know, lets not prep the meat properly or cook the veggies at the wrong temperature. Don't want it turning out too good looking as well as being tasty".

"SWMBO, shall I get the clean dinnerware out?
--"Screw it, this year we're eating Sunday roast from a trough"

I would suggest being one's own harshest critic. Brewing a clear beer is readily achievable.

Suspicious Looking Homebrew 4.jpg

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Today's Homebrew
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I like a good wit in the springtime. That being said, I used to say I didn't care about cloudy or not. But now I take pride in producing clear beer in styles that call for it.
With the exception of wits and some other wheats, I prefer clear beer.

So I whirlfloc, and cold crash, and gelatin most of my beers.
 
Gavin, I am not sure your analogy holds up. I'll gladly eat delicious bbq off of a paper plate, I do not need fancy china. Maybe my chocolate chips cookies don't all have the same ratio of cookie to chips and aren't perfectly circular... that's fine. If I am cooking in a competition then yes I will be particular, if I am cooking to eat it then I do not need the extra's.
 
WarrynPeace said:
Gavin, I am not sure your analogy holds up. I'll gladly eat delicious bbq off of a paper plate, I do not need fancy china. Maybe my chocolate chips cookies don't all have the same ratio of cookie to chips and aren't perfectly circular... that's fine. If I am cooking in a competition then yes I will be particular, if I am cooking to eat it then I do not need the extra's.
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Fair point on the plateware aspect. I agree, Bad analogy.

But I've seen plenty of BBQ pics where people proudly display the delicious smoke ring on a brisket, the charring is perfect. I too could care less about the paper plate but the charring and smoke ring.....mmmmmm. Yum.

I'm sure you put plenty of time and effort in your BBQ or grilling of meats. I know I do. Not many folks will say, I don't care how my steak/brisket looks as long as it tastes OK.

Steak
I want delicious, I want medium rare, blood on the plate (paper or otherwise), a nice superficial sear, grill marks well defined, not over seasoned, allowed to rest for a few minutes before I cut into it etc. Not many will disagree with all of these things when it comes to steak aside from the doneness.

If you don't like my steak, bring your own likely does not apply in most peoples attitudes.
 
I find that if I use Irish Moss towards the end of my boil, chill fast, use a clean fermenting yeast, and cold crash my brew in the fridge after bottle conditioning at room temp for a week or so, that they always turn out pretty clear. :mug:
 
Personally, I care about it, but don't lose any sleep over it.

I do the regular things many home/craft brewers do. Here is my process. It works pretty well for me. Others do it differently with similar results, which is great. For me it has become habit, so I don't really think about it much.

First, I try to get my water ph right to get all the flavor and sugars out of my grain. In my area I need to add calcium carbonate and lactic acid to the mash/sparge. This may not help with clarity, but if for some reason it doesn't turn out clear, the taste will make up for it. I add Irish moss towards the end of the boil, whirlpool 10-15 minutes after the boil, then chill fast with a counter-flow chiller.

I leave it in the primary fermenter for a minimum of at least 8-10 days (even if the SG is stable). Then I cold crash for a couple days in the fridge (or more if I have time) before bottling or kegging. I haven't used a secondary in a while. It settles well enough in one vessel. The only time I have added gelatin during crashing was when I forget the Irish moss.

I am careful when I move the beer to the keg or bottling bucket so as not to disturb the trub. I usually ferment in buckets with spouts which are above the yeast cake/trub so this isn't really a problem until the last quart or two of beer. I try to move the bucket out of the fridge as carefully as possible to not disturb the trub/yeast cake while moving. I then let it sit for a little while to settle before moving on to the next steps. I usually do 8 gallon batches split between the keg and bottles. I transfer into the keg first and the remainder into a bottling bucket. When I am at the bottom of the fermenter I watch closely when I pour the beer into the bottling bucket and stop when right at the trub cake. When I am bottling I add priming sugar in the bottling bucket during transfer, cover the bottling bucket and let it sit for a few minutes or half hour to let any large particles that may have transferred settle and the sugar dissipate. I know that the first pint or two in the keg might have a haze (not usually the case) but the rest should be clear if it isn't a wheat beer.

I like it when my beers are clear when they are supposed to be. It is a point of pride. I would bet that most (all) brewers hold their filled glass up to a light to see if they can see through it. If they say they don't they are lying.

When I bottle condition, unless it has been in the bottle for a while so the yeast cakes up solid, inevitably some is going to stir up during the pour or just from being moved around. I realize there isn't much in an individual bottle, but it is going to be there. I pour carefully if I think about it, but if not, I RDWHAHB. The people I give my beer to usually are aware of this. If not, they don't care after the first taste. Bottling from the Keg will help with this if you are giving it away, but I tend to bottle and keg at the same time so don't usually do this.
 
I stopped using whirlfloc or anything like that years ago. WHen I brew regularly I settle into a schedule of once every three weeks. I ferment in a Spiegel 15 gal and after three weeks everything has settled below the draw off.
I get very little trub in anything. Bottles clear up with time and kegs clear up in a hurry and always pour a clear beer.
 
singybrue said:
I don't do anything other than Irish Moss in the boil and time in the keg and I get plenty clear beer, but I don't really give it much thought.
I opened this beer tonight from a highly rated brewery and on a whim, held it up to the light.
I guess TG isn't too worried about clear beer either!
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That level of chunkyness in my opinion is not acceptable in a commercial beer. Hope it tastes better than it looks.
 
Clear beer means NOTHING. I am drinking this right now. This brewery is about an hour from me. Literally looks like they canned trub. But it is one of the most delicious beers I have ever had, so why worry about clarity?

konkeydong.jpg
 
My 2 cents. I dont know what irish moss or whirfloc are and dont care i wont use them. I like chocolate and coffee and raspberries though. I dont cold crash dont know what that is either. just time did this to my beer. I like a clearer beer sure but enjoy drinking grog seems more natural to me. I go grain to glass in ten days and then force carb and i think that adds to some haze (oh great here comes a i just want to get drunk comment). I care so much more how it tastes but will admit good looks will enhance enjoyment at times. I dont strain sauce either for the cooking analogy because all the goodness in sauce should stay till bitter end. I care much more that the steak is fillet than grill marks and when i wake up on sunday and toss frozen steaks on the grill so my kids and i can eat steak and eggs im not trying to impress. Im trying to draw less trub because i think that's the real culprit. I cant understand leaving trub behind in boil kettle dont you want all that fermenting with your beer i do!

All that said i reserve the right to change mind after rereading this thread and if i dont have to add anything or do much i am always willing to reconsider reconsidering and i appreciate the knowledge on how to achieve clearer beer. just question if time is the real key as i dont do anything suggested and notice without fail the beer being clearer after a couple of weeks in keg
 
Clarifying and filtering absolutely reduce hop presence, so I happily tolerate cloudy hoppy beers.

On the other hand, when maximizing hoppiness is not the focus, I firmly believe that better looking beer is better tasting beer. First impressions really matter.
 
singybrue said:
I opened this beer tonight from a highly rated brewery and on a whim, held it up to the light.
I guess TG isn't too worried about clear beer either!
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schematix said:
That level of chunkyness in my opinion is not acceptable in a commercial beer. Hope it tastes better than it looks.
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It's an IPA. Some degree of haze is appropriate for the style.

21A - American IPA

Appearance: Color ranges from medium gold to light reddish-amber. Should be clear, although unfiltered dryhopped versions may be a bit hazy.​

Would you say a cloudy wheat beer is "not acceptable in a commercial beer?" It's to style.

treacheroustexan said:
Clear beer means NOTHING. I am drinking this right now. This brewery is about an hour from me. Literally looks like they canned trub. But it is one of the most delicious beers I have ever had, so why worry about clarity?
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That's a Double IPA, which is also allowed/supposed to be cloudy, according to the style guidelines. The examples posted are not examples of flaws - they are examples of beers brewed to style.

Now, if you show me a commercial example of a cloudy Czech Pale Lager ("Brilliant to very clear," according to the style guidelines), then you'd have a point.
 
joshesmusica said:
It might "absolutely" reduce the presence, but it's a barely distinguishable difference. Nothing a little more hops (like another 1/4 oz or something) can't fix.
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But that would make it hazy again. What's the point in filtering out the dry hops that give it that aroma if you're just going to re-add them again afterwards, reinstating the hazy appearance?

You can't have a big dry hop and huge aroma in a crystal-clear beer. Hops add haze. It's as simple as that.
 
kombat said:
It's an IPA. Some degree of haze is appropriate for the style.

21A - American IPA

Appearance: Color ranges from medium gold to light reddish-amber. Should be clear, although unfiltered dryhopped versions may be a bit hazy.​

Would you say a cloudy wheat beer is "not acceptable in a commercial beer?" It's to style.



That's a Double IPA, which is also allowed/supposed to be cloudy, according to the style guidelines. The examples posted are not examples of flaws - they are examples of beers brewed to style.

Now, if you show me a commercial example of a cloudy Czech Pale Lager ("Brilliant to very clear," according to the style guidelines), then you'd have a point.
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I wasn't knocking it for being hazy (which it was only moderate hazy). I was knocking it for all of the floating chunks in it. Haze is absolutely acceptable, if not required, in certain styles.
 
kombat said:
But that would make it hazy again. What's the point in filtering out the dry hops that give it that aroma if you're just going to re-add them again afterwards, reinstating the hazy appearance?



You can't have a big dry hop and huge aroma in a crystal-clear beer. Hops add haze. It's as simple as that.
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I guess I wasn't clear enough:

If it's going to strip away 5% of the aroma then simply add 5% more hops before adding the gelatin. So instead of adding 60 grams of dry hops, simply add 65 grams. Then add the gelatin. Pretty simple, not much more cost at all.
 
joshesmusica said:
I guess I wasn't clear enough:

If it's going to strip away 5% of the aroma then simply add 5% more hops before adding the gelatin. So instead of adding 60 grams of dry hops, simply add 65 grams. Then add the gelatin. Pretty simple, not much more cost at all.
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It doesn't work like that.

It's not like 5 grams of gelatin will remove 60 grams of hops, so if you just add 65 grams of hops, you'll have 5 grams left after the gelatin does its thing.

Gelatin/Isinglass/whatever attaches to whatever it finds in suspension, and pulls it to the bottom. Gelatin will get you clear beer, by removing things that would otherwise remain in suspension. In order to get big hop aroma, you need to have tiny hop particles in suspension.

The two objectives are mutually opposed. You cannot have both. Clear beer, or big hop aroma.
 
kombat said:
It doesn't work like that.



It's not like 5 grams of gelatin will remove 60 grams of hops, so if you just add 65 grams of hops, you'll have 5 grams left after the gelatin does its thing.



Gelatin/Isinglass/whatever attaches to whatever it finds in suspension, and pulls it to the bottom. Gelatin will get you clear beer, by removing things that would otherwise remain in suspension. In order to get big hop aroma, you need to have tiny hop particles in suspension.



The two objectives are mutually opposed. You cannot have both. Clear beer, or big hop aroma.
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Says you and nobody else. How in the world am I possibly able to make wonderfully aromatic hop forward beers after using gelatin on them? How are there tons of brewers on here who can do the same? Damn I must be really skilled! I always knew I needed to start up my own brewery.

Must be a really fun black and white world you live in.
 
Gelatin is great for clearing up a beer when you do not have the time or patience to wait for it to clear itself. Other than waiting, letting a beer clear itself up naturally, is not at all that hard to do.

clear-sml.jpg
 

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