How do you tell someone their homebrew isn't, well, good?

[seatazzz]

So, let's say I have a friend that homebrews. He brought me a bottle of his latest today, not asking for my opinion, just trading bottles. For the record, I've only ever tasted one other homebrew besides my own in the three and a half years I've been obsessed with this hobby, so I don't have much to go on; that one was an extract batch that had twang to spare. To be blunt, the beer my buddy brought to me was crap. Tasted nothing like beer, but had a strong powdered lemonade mix flavor without the sweetness. I know he went heavy on honey (I don't have his exact recipe), and used homegrown hops, of which I was lucky enough to get some and they smell terrific. No hop aroma or flavor in this beer.

My dilemma; how do I nicely tell him I didn't like it, from a more experienced homebrewer standpoint? He does do all grain, but doesn't have a ferment fridge or the means to control ferment temperature. I don't think ferment temp was the reason for this not turning out well, but probably a process and/or recipe issue. I've been bugging him to join me in a brewday to see how my equipment works, and have offered to let him come over and use my setup whenever he wants to, but he hasn't taken me up on it.

Like most of us here, I want to get as many people interested in our hobby to keep LHBS going and have someone to talk to about brewing; but I really don't want to hurt anyone's feelings or discourage them. What do you all think?

 

[Miraculix]

So, let's say I have a friend that homebrews. He brought me a bottle of his latest today, not asking for my opinion, just trading bottles. For the record, I've only ever tasted one other homebrew besides my own in the three and a half years I've been obsessed with this hobby, so I don't have much to go on; that one was an extract batch that had twang to spare. To be blunt, the beer my buddy brought to me was crap. Tasted nothing like beer, but had a strong powdered lemonade mix flavor without the sweetness. I know he went heavy on honey (I don't have his exact recipe), and used homegrown hops, of which I was lucky enough to get some and they smell terrific. No hop aroma or flavor in this beer.

My dilemma; how do I nicely tell him I didn't like it, from a more experienced homebrewer standpoint? He does do all grain, but doesn't have a ferment fridge or the means to control ferment temperature. I don't think ferment temp was the reason for this not turning out well, but probably a process and/or recipe issue. I've been bugging him to join me in a brewday to see how my equipment works, and have offered to let him come over and use my setup whenever he wants to, but he hasn't taken me up on it.

Like most of us here, I want to get as many people interested in our hobby to keep LHBS going and have someone to talk to about brewing; but I really don't want to hurt anyone's feelings or discourage them. What do you all think?

This sounds to me like a mix of extract twang, too much honey and infection. I had beer turning into this cider/lemonade powder-ish flavour when infected with lactobacillus (at least I guess it was them).

How to tell him? Bring him a good example from yourself and let him compare side by side!

If he is open enough, he will taste it and then will want to know what he can improve.

 

[Vale71]

I'd avoid him like the plague until I'm confident he's probably completely forgotten about giving you the sample...

 

[madscientist451]

Everyone has different taste, maybe the beer that tastes like crap to you is ok for him?
Instead of telling him about his beer, perhaps ask him if he likes it?

 

[FswBG]

I have been in the same situation once or twice. If he doesn't ask... (Which you being a fellow homebrewer, he should) don't mention it. If he does ask, just ask what he thought and what he liked about it. You can give some constructive feedback that's not too harsh and it sounds like you're already inviting him to brew with you. I think you're doing your part. Cheers.

 

[Dgallo]

There’s a huge difference with having different taste preferences and bad beer. I personally do not like most Belgian styles but I can tell when they’re made well. Having noticeable off flavors is completely different, which that’s what it seems like from the op

If I’m you i wouldn’t bring it up but if you’re asked I think you owe it to a brewer to be honest. Best thing that happened to me early on is bringing my hb to breweries and having them provide an honest critique. That kept me striving to make better beer and many of the brewers gave me valuable advice along the way

 

[dwhite60]

I guess first, is your friend in the hobby to constantly improve or to make cheap beer? If it's to make cheap beer, he's there.

If he really wants to improve he needs to expect some constructive criticism. This is really the only way to improve.

This shouldn't be a "No honey, your big butt makes those jeans look big" moment. You might just mention the biggest flaw you see first. Not enough body, over or under hopped, lack of flavor. Get his recipe and analyze it to see what may have gone wrong.

I made a mead ale once. Like seven pounds of honey and fifteen ibu's in five gallons. Found it in a book. No flavor, no body, nice hops though. Perhaps your friend went way over on the honey. In all honesty, if he did, it's more like Mead and could probably use some extended aging.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[davidabcd]

I agree with the above: don't critique it unless it's specifically asked. If he does ask, say you want to see his recipe and learn about his procedure first before you give a review.

Same thought as above also: It would be nice to know what he thinks he gave you. By your description it almost sounds like mead and not beer.

You also could get yourself invited to watch his procedure on his equipment if that's feasible.

 

[Jayjay1976]

My brew groups meets monthly for a group tasting, some of them are very novice not only at brewing but also at evaluating beer flavor beyond like/don't like. IME, the best way to handle it is to say "something's not right" on the first sip. Then continue to sip while listening to the excuses, when he stops, start listing the flavor issues and possible causes. Look through the glass with one eye squinted while asking to see his recipe, then sniff it some more, then take another long draught before setting it down. Then look him dead in the eye and start talking about how to fix it while peppering in offers to help, offers to brew together, etc., pat him on the back and say something supportive with a 'we've all been there' feel, like "they can't all win medals but you'll get there", and "every batch you brew, good or bad, is full of lessons".

Then pat him on the back and hand him one of your best homebrews as encouragement. When he compliments it, offer the recipe. Steer him away from his recipe for a while and encourage him to try another, proven recipe. Stress the value of following a recipe to the letter, no substitutions or shortcuts. After he's a confident brewer he can start messing with recipes of his own.

 

[mongoose33]

Sometimes people hand you their beer because they want a pat on the back; unless he has asked for feedback, I'm guessing that's his motivation.

You can simply ask "would you like some feedback?" and see what develops.

Had a brew club meeting last week; someone had a kind of smoked stout thing, and I tried it. The guy said "what do you think?" I offered this: "It's kind of thin, i.e., not a lot of malt backbone, and the smoke component is a little strong for me. Can't detect any off flavors."

He agreed it was kind of thing--came from a kit he brewed. But he appreciates some honesty.

I have a local friend with a palate to die for--he can taste things I can never taste. Had an apricot beer once--it was on the label!--and I couldn't for the life of me get any apricot out of it. My friend? He lamented that they used some sort of liquid apricot extract instead of using the real thing.

He's my go-to tester. We have a deal--he gets beer from me, in exchange he gives me an absolutely honest appraisal. He has a few times noted issues--one recent new recipe beer was just "blah"--but he's also been praiseworthy when the beer deserves it.

And FWIW, and knowing you know this, but you might offer it to your friend: continuous quality improvement. Keep trying to get better--and almost never is that accomplished by changing the recipe. Process is more important than recipe, and no recipe can overcome bad process, but good process might elevate a bad recipe to something at least drinkable.

This might also come down to how good a friend he is.

 

[kh54s10]

I would say nothing unless asked.
Offer him one of yours. If he likes it a lot better than his own it should initiate a conversation. Then you can go into the details, see his recipe and processes and suggest changes.
I would guess there are problems with his beer, but also question that maybe he gave you a type that you don't like. If someone gave me a NEIPA and didn't tell me what it was I would say they made a bad beer. Same for sours so far.. I haven't tried a commercial one of either style that I have liked, yet.

 

[Dland]

Spit it out and make and make gagging sounds? ;}

 

[bracconiere]

wait...no one here worries about hurting MY feelings!? lol, i'd just tell him it's crap....but i'll drink it....


(and feel free to tell him it's still better then some of the other people on these forum's brews, )

edit: and if you were worried about hurting their feelings...was starting a conversation on a public forum about it a good idea?

 

[BrewMan13]

It's been fairly well covered to avoid feedback unless he solicits it. It may be he just likes what he makes and isn't as obsessive about it as you are. When I'm soliciting feedback and I get a glowing or generic response, I ask again to make sure they're not just kissing my ass. I'm my own worst critic though, so I often nitpick about stuff that others don't.

 

[bleme]

All good advice above, but it could also be that he knows it is crap and gave it to you to get rid of it. If you like it, I bet he'll give you more...

 

[camonick]

So, let's say I have a friend that homebrews. For the record, I've only ever tasted one other homebrew besides my own in the three and a half years I've been obsessed with this hobby... ....What do you all think?

That's a tough call about your friend... especially not knowing if he thinks it's good or not. I almost always directly ask what people think when I offer them one of my homebrews. The hardest part, like mentioned above, is that everybody has different tastes and favorite styles. I recently gave my dad one of my beers (that I think is fantastic) and his reply was "It's OK, I guess". Kind of knocked the wind out of my sails... but it's not a style he particularly likes. I also gave samples of another brew to some company we had over the weekend and they just raved about how good it was... it's a batch that I personally didn't think was all that great. Beer tasting is a strange thing.
You might just have to grin and bear it if he doesn't directly ask for your opinion.

As to the part of your OP I quoted above, you might enjoy joining the next FotHB. I'll tag @TwistedGray to see if you can be added to the next list If you're interested.

 

[SundayBrewer]

Sometimes bottles taste different. Ask for another and if it's bad tell him why you don't like it. A good brewer will admit their beer sucks.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

Take a sip then start sobbing uncontrollably. Then pretend you die. This will make him feel bad for giving you that bottle. All the good brewers learn like this.

 

[eric19312]

Regardless of how good the homebrew is I am tasting I work hard to find something specific and nice to say about it first. "Wow look at that clarity! I can almost read through this!"

Then pick one main flaw and try to help them taste it and discuss what are some of the things that might of caused that to occur. That give you an opportunity to discuss their overall process and ways they might improve it. Then move on to another beer.

Keep up the invite to do a brew day together. I think it will be more constructive to brew on his equipment (but nothing wrong with bringing a few knicknacks like PBW, Star-san, campden for chlorine, maybe refractometer, hydrometer, thermometer--I'd probably draw the line at pH meter and brewing salts though). I know I've had new brewers brew with me on my set up and it comes across as over the top and beyond their reach and they don't become brewers. Better to help them make a decent beer with their own gear and get them started on the journey.

 

[GnenieGone]

The 1st approach is to ask him what was he trying to do? If he wanted powered lemonade as the flavor, it was reached. Once it's established HIS goals then go from there as far as what you're tasting. Step two would be off flavors. Inform him of this or that flavor that doesn't belong. This way you're also educating him. Try to leave words out like good,bad, or crap out. Stay analytical, my 2 cents.

 

[bracconiere]

A good brewer will admit their beer sucks.

You just made my day man! lol

 

[seatazzz]

WOW, thanks for all the responses guys & gals! I did bring him a bottle of my NB Blonde today; in my humble opinion it's the best blonde I've ever brewed, with no flaws that I personally can detect. Husband wanted it hoppier but I told him I wanted something nice, light, and easy drinking. Then I told him it's 7% ABV, so much for light.

I don't belong to a club, and not a lot of people have had the privilege (snork) of tasting my homebrew; with the exception of my brewpub mentor who gives me good feedback, and random co-workers, and my FF group.

I'm planning on taking my friend aside at work tomorrow and asking what he was going for; I do know he was trying for something like mead. He did say his wife likes it, but being a wife myself I don't know if that's true or she was trying to pump up his ego. But now I've got some good pointers from you all, I feel more confident in helping him on the right path.

 

[GnenieGone]

Know mentioned this before but you're always welcome to join one of the Fellowship of the Home Brew trades. If you want feedback and tryothers HB.

WOW, thanks for all the responses guys & gals! I did bring him a bottle of my NB Blonde today; in my humble opinion it's the best blonde I've ever brewed, with no flaws that I personally can detect. Husband wanted it hoppier but I told him I wanted something nice, light, and easy drinking. Then I told him it's 7% ABV, so much for light.

I don't belong to a club, and not a lot of people have had the privilege (snork) of tasting my homebrew; with the exception of my brewpub mentor who gives me good feedback, and random co-workers, and my FF group.

I'm planning on taking my friend aside at work tomorrow and asking what he was going for; I do know he was trying for something like mead. He did say his wife likes it, but being a wife myself I don't know if that's true or she was trying to pump up his ego. But now I've got some good pointers from you all, I feel more confident in helping him on the right path.

 

[seatazzz]

Know mentioned this before but you're always welcome to join one of the Fellowship of the Home Brew trades. If you want feedback and tryothers HB.

I do! I've ghosted the thread the last couple years, just haven't felt my brew was good enough. Once we're out of this financial black hole we're in I will probably do so.