How do YOU sparge?

[SoCal-Doug]

OK, great, thanks Socal. Basically that's the same setup as the Spike, I see, except that with the Spike, it's just a little ss elbow that flows along the wall but if the bed is lower, I now realize you're sort of gently spilling down the wall in only one area. It would be a great mod to add in the hose to account for different grain beds. Thanks!

It really isn't flowing "down the wall". The elbow just helps the tube follow the wall and not be in the way. The fluid comes out of the end of the tube level with and across the top of the grain bed thence around the wall, causing the entire fluid above the grain to swirl. And yes, having the tube is nice because it doesn't matter if there is 5 pounds of grain or 20 pounds. It still lays on top of it.

During mashing, the tube is valved to the wort recirculation. During sparge, the tube is valved to the HLT (as the MLT drains the fresh clean water comes in and rinses). During sparge, its really easy to see if the fluid above the grain is growing higher or lower because its perfectly clear water. You can adjust the flow accordingly. When you are a gallon or so away from your preboil volume, simply kill the incoming HLT liquid and let the grain bed drain out, so there is less sloppy fluid when cleaning the MLT.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

It really isn't flowing "down the wall". The elbow just helps the tube follow the wall and not be in the way. The fluid comes out of the end of the tube level with and across the top of the grain bed thence around the wall, causing the entire fluid above the grain to swirl. And yes, having the tube is nice because it doesn't matter if there is 5 pounds of grain or 20 pounds. It still lays on top of it.

During mashing, the tube is valved to the wort recirculation. During sparge, the tube is valved to the HLT (as the MLT drains the fresh clean water comes in and rinses). During sparge, its really easy to see if the fluid above the grain is growing higher or lower because its perfectly clear water. You can adjust the flow accordingly. When you are a gallon or so away from your preboil volume, simply kill the incoming HLT liquid and let the grain bed drain out, so there is less sloppy fluid when cleaning the MLT.

Doug, I meant that with my 3" or so ss elbow, it flows down along the way in a broad band, if the grain bed is at all low. That's my experience. Probably doesn't matter, as it's all going into a water column above the grain bed.

 

[Crushdaley]

I don't think I have a picture of mine in operation, but here's a pic I found on the internet of something similar (note, his return line doesn't need to be that long). Basically, the return line from the herms coil just lays on top of the grain bed. Typically, people setup for a couple inches of wort above the grain. The return causes a continuous swirly motion on the fluid and thence flows through the grain for mashing and sparging. Years back, I tried the sprays, drippys, rings, and all the other return line widgets but found nothing that works as well as this method. Elegantly simple and incredibly effective.

View attachment 562714

If you have a hose swirling the wort around your mash ton don’t you get somewhat of a whirlpool effect where the liquid stays around the outside and the grain is forced to the center?No mater how subtle it is I would think that you aren’t getting full rinsing of the grain bed kind of like having a sparge arm set to spray the sides of the MLT then the liquid channels down the side.

 

[day_trippr]

[...]Basically, the return line from the herms coil just lays on top of the grain bed. Typically, people setup for a couple inches of wort above the grain. The return causes a continuous swirly motion on the fluid and thence flows through the grain for mashing and sparging.

Surprised I don't have a working pic of my own but this is a pic of the Blichmann autosparge in action from their web site.

I extended the tubing so it circles the kettle by about 200° from valve to output and positioned the float ball so the discharge is just under the surface. If I keep 1-1/2" of depth above the leveled grain bed it doesn't carve into it at all - AND it doesn't encourage air entrainment...

Cheers!

 

[ba-brewer]

If you have a hose swirling the wort around your mash ton don’t you get somewhat of a whirlpool effect where the liquid stays around the outside and the grain is forced to the center?No mater how subtle it is I would think that you aren’t getting full rinsing of the grain bed kind of like having a sparge arm set to spray the sides of the MLT then the liquid channels down the side.

the flow is generally quite low so no vortex action. Returned wort during mashing and fresh water during sparging mixes over top of the grain bed before flowing through the grain.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

Surprised I don't have a working pic of my own but this is a pic of the Blichmann autosparge in action from their web site.

I extended the tubing so it circles the kettle by about 200° from valve to output and positioned the float ball so the discharge is just under the surface. If I keep 1-1/2" of depth above the leveled grain bed it doesn't carve into it at all - AND it doesn't encourage air entrainment...

Cheers!

Freakin sweet! Less peeking at the flow with that float valve [stores picture into brain for future rig modification]

 

[BrewInspector]

Simple 3 tier system with 10 gallon round cooler mash tun. Batch sparge. Sometimes I will split the sparge into 2 with roughly equal amounts. No real reason and no consistant personal data that either 1 sparge or 2 obtain better results

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Surprised I don't have a working pic of my own but this is a pic of the Blichmann autosparge in action from their web site.

I extended the tubing so it circles the kettle by about 200° from valve to output and positioned the float ball so the discharge is just under the surface. If I keep 1-1/2" of depth above the leveled grain bed it doesn't carve into it at all - AND it doesn't encourage air entrainment...

Cheers!

Still thinking of this one, along with the imperial sparge arm. Aside from cost, though, also still thinking of the good old sparge ring, or rotating ring. Why did the world move on from them? Is there an efficiency issue with them? (Have to admit - seeing the thing rain down gently always made me smile. Wistful.....)

 

[SoCal-Doug]

If there is a layer wort or water on top of the grain bed, I think the return delivery method becomes less critical. If something is dripping, spraying, or "raining" on exposed grain, my engineer mind says its creating channeling (or centralized higher flow points) at the impact sites, and not evenly flowing through the entire grain bed.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

If there is a layer wort or water on top of the grain bed, I think the return delivery method becomes less critical. If something is dripping, spraying, or "raining" on exposed grain, my engineer mind says its creating channeling (or centralized higher flow points) at the impact sites, and not evenly flowing through the entire grain bed.

I agree, Doug. I always maintained a water column, continue to do so now (about a constant 1 1/2", till near the end - though used to experiment with "pumping" by allowing a buildup, then running off to a shallower water column depth. As I recall, I did find a very minor difference in efficiency doing this. Don't trust this memory, though).

 

[day_trippr]

Still thinking of this one, along with the imperial sparge arm. Aside from cost, though, also still thinking of the good old sparge ring, or rotating ring. Why did the world move on from them? Is there an efficiency issue with them? (Have to admit - seeing the thing rain down gently always made me smile. Wistful.....)

I can think of at least three potential issues with sparge arms/rings that "air-drop" wort:
- oxidation for certain
- sprinkler arms = small openings = good place for grain husks to lodge at the start of circulation or vorlauf.
- as mentioned, insufficient cover can lead to carving up the top of the grain bed.

I've seen some very fancy and expensive sprinklers. I'd never use one but they can be cool to watch...

Cheerss!

 

[Crushdaley]

the flow is generally quite low so no vortex action. Returned wort during mashing and fresh water during sparging mixes over top of the grain bed before flowing through the grain.

Well if it works for you and makes you happy then rock on. I don't think the perfect sparge arm/recirculation tube exists. It would have to be able to randomly sprinkle water in an almost infinitely differing patern while being able to adjust height wise keep a steady flow and not loose heat. That's a tall order even with a pro brewers budget.

Also wasn't trying to turn this into a sparge arm discussion. I'm sure there are plenty of those already on this site.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

I can think of at least three potential issues with sparge arms/rings that "air-drop" wort:
- oxidation for certain
- sprinkler arms = small openings = good place for grain husks to lodge at the start of circulation or vorlauf.
- as mentioned, insufficient cover can lead to carving up the top of the grain bed.

I've seen some very fancy and expensive sprinklers. I'd never use one but they can be cool to watch...

Cheerss!

OK, good points, thanks, trippr. I never vorlauf'ed with the ring, just sparged, but the O2 uptake is a great point and one I hadn't thought of. Though I always tried to avoid channeling, one thing I do know is that if I "knifed" the bed (a sort of primitive mash rake, not sure if you or anyone else still do this), pretty difficult to do it with a sparge ring, even my DIY of one outer ring (I had at one point a St. Pat's ss sparge arm, with concentric rings - impossible to "knife" the bed). This elbow as Spike has it is, in this way, really awesome.

Very helpful, thanks, buddy.

 

[day_trippr]

I don't knife the top of the bed unless I notice a build-up of that grey grainy sludge, then I'll slice it with my long spoon before starting the sparge...

Cheers!

 

[Gadjobrinus]

I don't knife the top of the bed unless I notice a build-up of that grey grainy sludge, then I'll slice it with my long spoon before starting the sparge...

Cheers!

I haven't done it "this" time, but did it then, probably out of some written habit, and/or trying to emulate a commercial tun and its rakes in miniature. It would probably be worthwhile for me to do some comparisons...