Hugh_Jass
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How do you make GOOD homebrew?
- Thread starter cm02WS6
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Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
How do you get to Carnegie Hall?
Practice.
Practice.
cm02WS6 said:
I had a strange back of the tongue taste using 1056 around 66*, started keeping ferm temps between 60 and 63. That alone gave me the crisp clean flavor I wanted.
Not sure if this has been talked about but wouldn't hurt to try on a batch to see if it helps.
JeepDiver
Well-Known Member
In addition to the water, also look at the hops you are using. Since you are doing agressivly hopped beers, you may have sensitive taste buds that picks out things that just don't set well with you. I've heard of people that can pick out pellet hops everytime, though I can't tell a difference myself. If the beer you like used a specific kind, see if the others used the same or different.
ReverseApacheMaster
Well-Known Member
Can we see some of these recipes you're following? I'm also a believer that water is the prime suspect in your problems but if you're just winging it with your recipes that might be part of the problem.
permo
Well-Known Member
I have found that my beers are clearer when I rack to the keg. I have also found that I rarely, if ever, encounter off flavors. It seems that the yeast need more time than we think. IMO. Some yeast strains are quicker than others though. I have found Belgian yeast to be crazily slow and english to be very fast, for the most part.
Three weeks is a good rule of thumb tho.
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Another good thing to keep in mind, is that there may be people telling you they make good or great beer consistently without doing any of this stuff. However, if you tasted their beer, you may think it to be crap. I've been in a few swaps on this forum, Only to receive beer from ONE person that was better quality than what I make. I can consider my beer average with plenty of room for improvement.
This is not to say it does taste like crap, but don't take someone's word for how great their beer is and base your methods off theirs.
This is not to say it does taste like crap, but don't take someone's word for how great their beer is and base your methods off theirs.
Sebas83
Well-Known Member
So I'll chime in here. I haven't read everything all the way through, but I'll throw it in anyway.
When using DME, use distiller water or RO water. In the process of making DME, the water used to make the stuff already has a certain quantity of dissolved solids in it that are appropriate to the process. That being said, if you have water that is high in dissolved solids (spring water, well-water typically) you could be accidentally have too much stuff in there creating unexpected flavors.
That is just a facet of DME brewing though.
If you can, try a biab with some diastatic grains (1-2lb) appropriate to the brew. It's as easy as steeping and can MASSIVELY improve your beer and take away that DME harshness.
Also, if you do that, add your DME at :15 left in the boil.
Oh yeah, that and practice. Know your ingredients, know your process. Rinse. Repeat. I've had award winning extract beers, btw. It's not about what you do, it's how you do it.
Cheers.
-S
When using DME, use distiller water or RO water. In the process of making DME, the water used to make the stuff already has a certain quantity of dissolved solids in it that are appropriate to the process. That being said, if you have water that is high in dissolved solids (spring water, well-water typically) you could be accidentally have too much stuff in there creating unexpected flavors.
That is just a facet of DME brewing though.
If you can, try a biab with some diastatic grains (1-2lb) appropriate to the brew. It's as easy as steeping and can MASSIVELY improve your beer and take away that DME harshness.
Also, if you do that, add your DME at :15 left in the boil.
Oh yeah, that and practice. Know your ingredients, know your process. Rinse. Repeat. I've had award winning extract beers, btw. It's not about what you do, it's how you do it.
Cheers.
-S
Some have asked about my recipes. I've got a spreadsheet full of all 13 of my brews that I can email if someone is so inclined as to look at all the details, but here's the last three. They all use Decatur, IL tap water and were full boils:
Big Batch IPA (10 gallons, two yeasts). This one also had the same problems I've mentioned before. This was too big of a recipe and 10 gallons was too much. This is what prompted me to change direction and get back to simpler recipes.
1 lb Crystal 20, 0.5 lb Crystal 10, 1 lb Carapils, and 0.75 lb Melanoidin steeped in 2 gallons
9 lb Briess Golden DME at 60 and another 7 lbs at 15. 1.069 OG in 10 gallons.
1.7 oz Zues at 60
1 oz each of Simcoe and Centennial at 20
0.5 oz each of Simcoe, Citra, and Cascade at 10
0.5 oz each of Simcoe, Citra, and Cascade at 5
1.5oz Simcoe, 1 oz Cascade, and 0.5oz Citra dry hop in EACH 5 gallon fermenter
1272 (1.015 FG) and 007 (1.017 FG) yeasts, fermented around 70 for 21 days.
Both had 0.7L simple starter, aeration was just from drizzling through funnel.
Amber 2.0: This one was kegged 2 weeks ago and I've mentioned before in this thread. I don't really want to drink it so I'm hoping it matures. FYI, Amber 2.0 was a variation of Amber 1.0, which turned out pretty good and was basically the American Amber kit from NB but with my own whole leaf hops.
1 lb Crystal 20 steeped in 1 gallon
3 lb Briess Amber DME at 60 min and another 3.5 lb at 15 min. 1.055 OG in 5 gallons.
1.2 oz Centennial at 60
1 oz Centennial at 5
1 oz Centennial dry hop
1056 yeast (1.010 FG) fermented at 66-68 for 20 days.
1L stirred starter with oxygen aeration at pitching.
C&C PA, fermenting now. Based on Chinook IPA kit from NB, plus some Citra.
0.75 lb Belgian Caramel Pils, 0.25 lb Crystal 80 steeped in 1 gallon
3 lb Briess Golden DME at 60 min and 3 lb at 15 minutes. 1.052 OG in 5 gallons.
0.5 oz Chinook at 60
0.5 oz Chinook at 30
0.5 oz Chinook at 10
0.5 oz each of Chinook and Citra at 5
1.5oz Citra dry hop.
1056 yeast fermenting at 66 for 8 days now.
1L stirred starter with oxygen aeration at pitching.
Big Batch IPA (10 gallons, two yeasts). This one also had the same problems I've mentioned before. This was too big of a recipe and 10 gallons was too much. This is what prompted me to change direction and get back to simpler recipes.
1 lb Crystal 20, 0.5 lb Crystal 10, 1 lb Carapils, and 0.75 lb Melanoidin steeped in 2 gallons
9 lb Briess Golden DME at 60 and another 7 lbs at 15. 1.069 OG in 10 gallons.
1.7 oz Zues at 60
1 oz each of Simcoe and Centennial at 20
0.5 oz each of Simcoe, Citra, and Cascade at 10
0.5 oz each of Simcoe, Citra, and Cascade at 5
1.5oz Simcoe, 1 oz Cascade, and 0.5oz Citra dry hop in EACH 5 gallon fermenter
1272 (1.015 FG) and 007 (1.017 FG) yeasts, fermented around 70 for 21 days.
Both had 0.7L simple starter, aeration was just from drizzling through funnel.
Amber 2.0: This one was kegged 2 weeks ago and I've mentioned before in this thread. I don't really want to drink it so I'm hoping it matures. FYI, Amber 2.0 was a variation of Amber 1.0, which turned out pretty good and was basically the American Amber kit from NB but with my own whole leaf hops.
1 lb Crystal 20 steeped in 1 gallon
3 lb Briess Amber DME at 60 min and another 3.5 lb at 15 min. 1.055 OG in 5 gallons.
1.2 oz Centennial at 60
1 oz Centennial at 5
1 oz Centennial dry hop
1056 yeast (1.010 FG) fermented at 66-68 for 20 days.
1L stirred starter with oxygen aeration at pitching.
C&C PA, fermenting now. Based on Chinook IPA kit from NB, plus some Citra.
0.75 lb Belgian Caramel Pils, 0.25 lb Crystal 80 steeped in 1 gallon
3 lb Briess Golden DME at 60 min and 3 lb at 15 minutes. 1.052 OG in 5 gallons.
0.5 oz Chinook at 60
0.5 oz Chinook at 30
0.5 oz Chinook at 10
0.5 oz each of Chinook and Citra at 5
1.5oz Citra dry hop.
1056 yeast fermenting at 66 for 8 days now.
1L stirred starter with oxygen aeration at pitching.
Stauffbier
Well-Known Member
I just read through this entire post, and there is a lot of good advice here. To the OP, I agree with the water thing. When I made extract brew I used half distilled and half spring, because I still wanted a little bit of mineral content for flavor. When you say that you use tap, is it literally right out of the tap. Do you carbon filter it? If not you might want to. You can buy RV carbon filters at Walmart for about $20.00. This is what I do when I use tap. I also throw a couple Campden tablets in for good measure.
Another thing I notice is that you said "(made a "swamp warmer" with aquarium heater to control my fermentation temps. My basement closet is pretty much always around 60, so I'm fermenting at 66 constantly now)"... Where are you getting the temp reading of 66F? If it's from a fermometer strip on the bucket your actual fermentation temp inside the bucket could be 2*-8*F higher than that, which can give you some off flavors. If my closet had an ambient temp of 60F I'd probably just leave the bucket sitting in there without a swamp cooler/heater for the first few days of initial fermentation. Then when the initial fermentation is over and the yeast aren't generating heat anymore you can get it into the swamp cooler/heater for the remainder of fermentation.
These are just my personal opinions based on my experiences. I don't claim to be the best brewer by any means, but this type of stuff helped my quality.
I think what a large majority of homebrewers won't admit is that we lie to ourselves about the quality of our beer. I'm sure we've all made beer that was not so great more than once. Myself included. As mentioned, practice makes perfect!
Another thing I notice is that you said "(made a "swamp warmer" with aquarium heater to control my fermentation temps. My basement closet is pretty much always around 60, so I'm fermenting at 66 constantly now)"... Where are you getting the temp reading of 66F? If it's from a fermometer strip on the bucket your actual fermentation temp inside the bucket could be 2*-8*F higher than that, which can give you some off flavors. If my closet had an ambient temp of 60F I'd probably just leave the bucket sitting in there without a swamp cooler/heater for the first few days of initial fermentation. Then when the initial fermentation is over and the yeast aren't generating heat anymore you can get it into the swamp cooler/heater for the remainder of fermentation.
These are just my personal opinions based on my experiences. I don't claim to be the best brewer by any means, but this type of stuff helped my quality.
I think what a large majority of homebrewers won't admit is that we lie to ourselves about the quality of our beer. I'm sure we've all made beer that was not so great more than once. Myself included. As mentioned, practice makes perfect!
brock_gonad
Active Member
I'm surprised it hasn't been mention earlier, but the best thing I ever did for my beer was to buy a book. Specifically, How to Brew by John Palmer.
This guy is a homebrew legend for a reason. Easy to read, entertaining and enlightening, covering the gamut from super-noob to high level science and math... this book is a bible. After reading it, I realized how blind I was flying beforehand.
My brewing partner and I refer to John as Pope John Palmer.
When making tweaks, I always ask, what would Pope John do?
When you get through that, you can't lose with Brewing Classic Styles for recipes.
This guy is a homebrew legend for a reason. Easy to read, entertaining and enlightening, covering the gamut from super-noob to high level science and math... this book is a bible. After reading it, I realized how blind I was flying beforehand.
My brewing partner and I refer to John as Pope John Palmer.
When making tweaks, I always ask, what would Pope John do?
When you get through that, you can't lose with Brewing Classic Styles for recipes.
Also use some campden tablets to treat your water.
Thanks for all the tips! I'm focusing on the water part and going to use distilled water next time. That should be the best, right? It makes sense, the minerals are already in the extract. What do I steep my grains in though? I've read that grains need some of the water's mineral content, but I'm not mashing so not sure if that means I can use distilled for steeping.
Yes, distilled is fine for steeping and for all of your brewing water.
I didn't have time to read through this whole thread but I noticed you said you made a few types of beer that you didn't think we're that good.
I'm a new brewer, about a year into the hobby and I too made a few batches I didn't like. After trying a fellow brewers versions of those same styles I discovered my beers were great beers, I was just not a fan of that particular style! That being said I've yet to do an all grain. It's only a few weeks away, but up until now I've only done canned wort and kit beers. Irish reds are my favorites.
As for my home brew being comparable or enjoyable to commercial beers, Brew House' Irish Red Ale made by RJS, is about the best Irish Red I've ever tasted.
I'm a new brewer, about a year into the hobby and I too made a few batches I didn't like. After trying a fellow brewers versions of those same styles I discovered my beers were great beers, I was just not a fan of that particular style! That being said I've yet to do an all grain. It's only a few weeks away, but up until now I've only done canned wort and kit beers. Irish reds are my favorites.
As for my home brew being comparable or enjoyable to commercial beers, Brew House' Irish Red Ale made by RJS, is about the best Irish Red I've ever tasted.
Find an experienced brewer, have him/her over for a brew day. I brew similarly to the way you do but use local tap water, and my beers consistently get rave reviews. The bad beers I've made were Mr. Beer ones from a kit I got for Christmas a couple years back. When I switched to 5 gallon batches, I haven't been disappointed with one yet (though a couple like my saison took a while to mature).
Chuck_Swillery
Well-Known Member
When I first got into brewing it was all extract and city water - nothing I made was compared to the better commercial brews. It was a small community so the chlorine wasn't nearly as noticeable as some of the "pool water" you get in some areas. But... it makes a difference. Then I moved to where I am now, rather hard well water, and my brews improved a great deal. Then I jumped into all grain and, well, leaps and bounds ahead of what I was making before. I'm not saying you cannot make great beer with all extract, I just like what I produce from all grain better.
Crucial-BBQ
Well-Known Member
Everyone wants a quick fix, to go from 0 to 60 in 3.2 seconds. The bottom line is that it takes time to learn how to brew great home-brew no matter what Tom, Dick, or Jamil tell you. Sure, there are things one can do right now that will improve their home-brews but in reality it can take years of trial-and-error before you get to that first Holy cow! This is awesome! beer. And when you do, you will know it.
So how do you make good home-brew? Practice, patience, and developing a full understanding of what and how each ingredient and step contributes, period. No way around it.
The problem with the OP is that it is rather vague. Simply saying that you do not like your beers or that they do not compare to "mid-range" commercial examples does not help.
If you want to get rid of home-brew twang, I would suggest giving a healthy does of yeast nutrient a try.
Controlling fermentation temps, pitching rates, etc. can definitely up the quality of your home-brews but there is a reason why the older dudes, the gurus, the pro-brewers (outside of Jamil), do not focus on fermentation as the be-all-end-all that many claim it to be (ahem, Jamil). And yes, Palmer tends to put more of an emphasis on water profile than the others.
Pitch rates and ferm temps can improve beer, sure, but it will not save it. A beer that begins with a lame grain bill, mash schedule, or hop schedule, or the wrong water, is still going to be a lame beer no matter how much yeast was pitched or the temp controlled.
By the way, pitching calculators are based on certain assumptions that may or may not be true to your situation. And unless you are counting your own cells you have no way of knowing if you are even pitching the precise rate, anyways. The only thing that you know for certain is that your "big" starter works for you.
And while I am here, is it even possible to buy stale ingredients anymore? Okay, sure, one could buy fresh ingredients only to have them sit around the garage for a year before use, but the idea of "as fresh as possible" is a left-over from the old days when hops where stored in brown paper bags on the shelf at room temperature at the LHBS. And not to mention that, back then, it was impossible to know if your dry yeast pack or DME/LME were any good. Production technology, understanding, and know-how has come a long way since then. DME/LME are now top notch compared to 20 years ago and dry yeast is now just as good as liquid.
So how do you make good home-brew? Practice, patience, and developing a full understanding of what and how each ingredient and step contributes, period. No way around it.
The problem with the OP is that it is rather vague. Simply saying that you do not like your beers or that they do not compare to "mid-range" commercial examples does not help.
If you want to get rid of home-brew twang, I would suggest giving a healthy does of yeast nutrient a try.
No one will argue that fermentation technique is not important, however, in reality it is just the latest trend. In a few years it will be conicals, or wide, shallow, kettles, or souring your beer with your own saliva, or....
Controlling fermentation temps, pitching rates, etc. can definitely up the quality of your home-brews but there is a reason why the older dudes, the gurus, the pro-brewers (outside of Jamil), do not focus on fermentation as the be-all-end-all that many claim it to be (ahem, Jamil). And yes, Palmer tends to put more of an emphasis on water profile than the others.
Pitch rates and ferm temps can improve beer, sure, but it will not save it. A beer that begins with a lame grain bill, mash schedule, or hop schedule, or the wrong water, is still going to be a lame beer no matter how much yeast was pitched or the temp controlled.
By the way, pitching calculators are based on certain assumptions that may or may not be true to your situation. And unless you are counting your own cells you have no way of knowing if you are even pitching the precise rate, anyways. The only thing that you know for certain is that your "big" starter works for you.
And while I am here, is it even possible to buy stale ingredients anymore? Okay, sure, one could buy fresh ingredients only to have them sit around the garage for a year before use, but the idea of "as fresh as possible" is a left-over from the old days when hops where stored in brown paper bags on the shelf at room temperature at the LHBS. And not to mention that, back then, it was impossible to know if your dry yeast pack or DME/LME were any good. Production technology, understanding, and know-how has come a long way since then. DME/LME are now top notch compared to 20 years ago and dry yeast is now just as good as liquid.
I agree.
TheZymurgist
Well-Known Member
Wow, back from the dead. Wonder if this guy ever sorted out his issues...
[EDIT] If post count is any indication (and it may or may not be) I would guess he didn't...
[EDIT] If post count is any indication (and it may or may not be) I would guess he didn't...
To op.... I too was dissatisfied with extract brewing just didnt feel i was getting the beer i was looking for.... This is precisely why I went to AG brewing yes took longer but the end result is what was sought after. Taste and flavor was a controllable factor and can make a wide range of different styles
As to your contention you just dont have time due to your 2 1/2 yr old child... And would just give up the hobby. They won't be 2 1/2 too long. My point is dont be discouraged and pursue this great hobby. 10 yrs from now you ll say glad i didnt give up
As to your contention you just dont have time due to your 2 1/2 yr old child... And would just give up the hobby. They won't be 2 1/2 too long. My point is dont be discouraged and pursue this great hobby. 10 yrs from now you ll say glad i didnt give up
Hi, I'm the OP and I guess you can say that I did sort out my issues, but not for the reasons I was originally looking. I ended up taking a break from brewing over the last year, partly due to time constraints with having young kids and partly due to finding a new hobby in woodworking. I do appreciate the encouragement and help as I look back through these replies.
I am planning a "comback" brew for a couple weeks from now. My wife is visiting family with the kids and she said "you need to brew" so I guess I'll oblige. Since I'll have the time, I figure I'll try my hand at BIAB and see if AG makes a difference as klaggy pointed out in the last post. Hopefully a new perspective, expectations, and process will result in a beer I'll be proud of again.
I am planning a "comback" brew for a couple weeks from now. My wife is visiting family with the kids and she said "you need to brew" so I guess I'll oblige. Since I'll have the time, I figure I'll try my hand at BIAB and see if AG makes a difference as klaggy pointed out in the last post. Hopefully a new perspective, expectations, and process will result in a beer I'll be proud of again.
bobo31
Well-Known Member
I was in the same boat as the OP. My beers did not stand up to commercial beers so I wasn't happy. I was brewing all grain.
Basically it came down to water and mash ph. I purchased an RO water filter and ph pen. Now I love drinking my beer over commercial beer. I buy commercial beer for something to switch up to but typically grab my beer from the fridge.
I use pure RO water with minerals added back in using the Bru'n water spreadsheet. I use Acid malt to control ph. Typically 1-4oz. per beer. I couldn't be happier now.
Basically it came down to water and mash ph. I purchased an RO water filter and ph pen. Now I love drinking my beer over commercial beer. I buy commercial beer for something to switch up to but typically grab my beer from the fridge.
I use pure RO water with minerals added back in using the Bru'n water spreadsheet. I use Acid malt to control ph. Typically 1-4oz. per beer. I couldn't be happier now.
Natdavis777
Well-Known Member
Water/pH treatment and fermentation temperature control...
>>I was in the same boat as the OP. My beers did not stand up to commercial beers so I wasn't happy. I was brewing all grain.
I hate Stone Brewing, their beer is better than mine.
I like my beer over some craft beers, but not more than the best craft breweries (like Stone for example)
I hate Stone Brewing, their beer is better than mine.
I like my beer over some craft beers, but not more than the best craft breweries (like Stone for example)
philosofool
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Are there any breweries locally that make beer you like, or at least, that lacks the flavor you dislike?
Go in with a bottle of beer, ask if the brewer is around and let them know that you feel like despite attention to all the aspects of brewing (fermentation control, etc.), ask if he or she would taste the beer and tell you if they can identify your problem. The thing is, they will know if your local water is funny and will be able to tell you want to do.
Also, if you are kegging, make sure you purge that thing. I went through almost a year of bad beer before I realized I was oxidizing my beer in the keg.
Go in with a bottle of beer, ask if the brewer is around and let them know that you feel like despite attention to all the aspects of brewing (fermentation control, etc.), ask if he or she would taste the beer and tell you if they can identify your problem. The thing is, they will know if your local water is funny and will be able to tell you want to do.
Also, if you are kegging, make sure you purge that thing. I went through almost a year of bad beer before I realized I was oxidizing my beer in the keg.
myerstyson
Well-Known Member
I've only brewed 5 batches, and only tasted 2, which tasted awesome, so take this with a bit of salt:
1) Sanitize/Cleanliness
2) Checklist (I have checklists for brew day and bottling day, so I make sure all my equipment is in the brew room and I don't have to run off for something in the middle of the boil)
3) Sanitize/Cleanliness
4) Quality ingredients
5) Sanitize/Cleanliness
1) Sanitize/Cleanliness
2) Checklist (I have checklists for brew day and bottling day, so I make sure all my equipment is in the brew room and I don't have to run off for something in the middle of the boil)
3) Sanitize/Cleanliness
4) Quality ingredients
5) Sanitize/Cleanliness
1) Control your fermentation temps
2) Pitch the proper yeast - make starters if need be
3) Join a local home-brew club, and get tips from others
and after you've done those -
4) Use spring water or whatever water you like. Good water = Good beer.
2) Pitch the proper yeast - make starters if need be
3) Join a local home-brew club, and get tips from others
and after you've done those -
4) Use spring water or whatever water you like. Good water = Good beer.
kpr121
Well-Known Member
Cold crashing.
I bottle, and before cold crashing I'd always end up with too much yeast in my beer, which impacted the taste.
I've also found taht doing a secondary helps because the yeast cake is smaller and when racking to the bucket I bring over less yeast.
I bottle, and before cold crashing I'd always end up with too much yeast in my beer, which impacted the taste.
I've also found taht doing a secondary helps because the yeast cake is smaller and when racking to the bucket I bring over less yeast.
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