How do you make GOOD homebrew?

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cm02WS6

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How do you make GOOD homebrew? Like a beer that you can honestly put up against even a mid-range commercial beer and say that you'd prefer to drink your homebrew? I started this hobby about a year ago and have done 12 batches, constantly improving my technique and equipment, and I can honestly say that only two of those have been actually good. Yes, I know the whole placebo effect because you made it yourself and so forth, but I'm over that now and wondering why my beers aren't improving all that much.

Let me also say that I use extract and will always use extract. With a 2 year old and a newborn, I can barely fit the 2.5 hours it takes to brew now. If I can't make a good beer with extract then I'll just give it up. Instead of focusing on how to get the sugar into the pot, I've focused on optimizing everything afterwards. Full boil, wort chiller, stir plate for proper pitch rates, pure oxygen aeration, temperature control, long primary, kegging, even smaller stuff like whole leaf hops and yeast nutrient.

It is kind of funny to think that at some point about five brews ago I got so brash as to actually try some other styles like an ESB, German Alt, and English IPA. Those didn't turn out either, but maybe I just don't like those styles. I've pretty much gone back to what has worked before: relatively simple recipes with fewer ingredients and good old 1056. I've got a hoppy pale ale fermenting now that I'm hedging my bets on. I'm starting to think Yooper is onto something when she always says in the Extract Forum to use only pilsen or golden extract, so I'll be doing that from now on, but I will say that I've made several beers with golden extract that didn't turn out so well.

Sorry for the relatively long post. If you've made it this far, you've either found this comedic or can sympathize and hopefully offer some advice, because I need it.
 
I hear, fresher the ingredients the better. Did you try getting your extract from another retailer?
Have you made a clone and what was the difference between yours and the real stuff?
 
Forget everything you think you know about brewing and make a trip to the Fermentation section of this forum. All the nuances of the brewing process are nearly non-existent until you have taken the steps to pitch the appropriate amount of yeast and are able to control your fermentation temperatures.

Purchase a small chest freezer on the cheap along with a external temp control. As long as the fridge is large enough to hold at least one carboy, every configuration (digital, et al.) is purely preference.

Do yourself the favor: It's worth whatever investment to move from hoping your brew comes out great to expecting your brew to come out great.
 
When you say they "don't turn out" what exactly do you mean? This info will help troubleshoot your problem(s).

Something that I didn't see mentioned in your list of things tried was water. Are you using tap water? Have you tried spring water from the grocery store for a batch?
You mentioned temp control, but not what kind and what temps you're controlling to.

Throw out some details about what is off and we can help more. Everyone can make good beer and plenty of people claim great beer with extract, though I've not personally experienced that.
 
Definitely good points.

First, I buy all my stuff from Northern Brewer. They say their LME is the freshest, which seems to be supported by seeing other people recommending it here pretty often. I have made the switch to DME based on what seems to be the prevailing opinion that it is at least more consistent. However, I can't say I've seen a predictable difference in the result when I've used either type. I've used DME for several brews now so maybe I should go back to some golden LME?

Second, I've spent a TON of time in the fermentation section and picked up a lot of good tips. Doing this is how I realized that there seems to be a huge amount of improvements if you aren't doing some of the key techniques. It was because of this that I picked up the stir plate and oxygen injection, and also made a "swamp warmer" with aquarium heater to control my fermentation temps. My basement closet is pretty much always around 60, so I'm fermenting at 66 constantly now. These three improvements have only been in place for one beer, so I'm going to give those time and chalk up my latest failure to other factors that I don't know yet. That is also kind of why I'm so disappointed with my latest beer. Like you said, I fully expected it to be good.
 
Aunt_Ester said:
Forget everything you think you know about brewing and make a trip to the Fermentation section of this forum. All the nuances of the brewing process are nearly non-existent until you have taken the steps to pitch the appropriate amount of yeast and are able to control your fermentation temperatures.

Purchase a small chest freezer on the cheap along with a external temp control. As long as the fridge is large enough to hold at least one carboy, every configuration (digital, et al.) is purely preference.

Do yourself the favor: It's worth whatever investment to move from hoping your brew comes out great to expecting your brew to come out great.
Click to expand...

+1 - this is key for all grain and extract. Paying more attention to this and investing in a bit of equipment to control pitch rates and fermentation has made a big difference in my beers.
 
I can sympathize. I've done a load of brews now and a couple have been quite good and some just awful. I always get good feedback from friends but at the end of the day you want something you can drink 5 gallons of and not get too sick of. I'm sure it is just one of those things that take practice and you get a feel for it. But its annoying to have so much time spent making sub par beer.

But saying that, I always think my next brew is going to hit the nail on the head and i can't stop :)
 
Are you doing a late addition with your DME? If so, are you adjusting your hop schedule? Still unsure of your "Turning out bad" details. Too bitter? Astringent? Sour? Moldy? Wet Cardboard? Soapy?
 
IrregularPulse said:
When you say they "don't turn out" what exactly do you mean? This info will help troubleshoot your problem(s).

Something that I didn't see mentioned in your list of things tried was water. Are you using tap water? Have you tried spring water from the grocery store for a batch?
You mentioned temp control, but not what kind and what temps you're controlling to.

Throw out some details about what is off and we can help more. Everyone can make good beer and plenty of people claim great beer with extract, though I've not personally experienced that.
Click to expand...

Excellent point about water, this has also been on my mind lately. I use tap water, which I hear mixed opinions on about because the minerals are already in the extract. Maybe I should try distilled water, not sure if bottled spring water would be the essentially the same problem as tap water?

My particular problem, especially on this latest brew, is what I guess is the extract twang. It went from 1.055 to 1.010, but it has this thickness and off taste in the back. I've heard people say that can come from stale LME, under pitched or under aerated, but none of those are factors on this latest brew.
 
IrregularPulse said:
Are you doing a late addition with your DME? If so, are you adjusting your hop schedule? Still unsure of your "Turning out bad" details. Too bitter? Astringent? Sour? Moldy? Wet Cardboard? Soapy?
Click to expand...

Yes, have been doing late additions for some time. Usually 50% because that is easy. I do adjust my hop schedules using my own spreadsheet that I developed specifically to account for the lower boil gravity. I validated it against some brewing software so I'm confident it is good there.

Not really sure exactly what astringent means but I just looked it up and maybe I get some of that. Maybe a little soapy. Definitely not too bitter (I like bitter). Not moldy or cardboard-ish either.
 
Are you using ALL extract? Adding any specialty grains? I know when I started with extract I had some of the same problems of what I called the "Twang". Couldn't explain it other than by saying it tasted like homebrew. haha. It went away after I started doing partial mashes or by steeping grains.

Also, how are you fermenting? Primary/Secondary or just primary and for how long?
 
keep recipes simple
filter chorine from municipal water
Grind fresh grain /use fresh quality extract
use fresh hops
pitch healthy yeast
keep it sanitary
control fermentation temperatures
Let the yeast work is magic, extended primary
package and server beer appropriately
 
prsman said:
Are you using ALL extract? Adding any specialty grains? I know when I started with extract I had some of the same problems of what I called the "Twang". Couldn't explain it other than by saying it tasted like homebrew. haha. It went away after I started doing partial mashes or by steeping grains.
Click to expand...

Yes, always use specialty grains. Sometimes I think I use too much, so I'm going to start limiting to just 1 lb. Another factor is kind of what I said about Yooper's advice in my first post about using only pilsen or golden extract. That makes sense to me, use the extract as the base then the specialty grains on top of it. In a way that is exactly what you do with an all-grain grist.
 
cm02WS6 said:
Yes, always use specialty grains. Sometimes I think I use too much, so I'm going to start limiting to just 1 lb. Another factor is kind of what I said about Yooper's advice in my first post about using only pilsen or golden extract. That makes sense to me, use the extract as the base then the specialty grains on top of it. In a way that is exactly what you do with an all-grain grist.
Click to expand...

Find a tried and true extract clone recipe. Keep the brew consistent but start changing varaibles each time until problem is found.
 
permo said:
keep recipes simple
filter chorine from municipal water
Grind fresh grain /use fresh quality extract
use fresh hops
pitch healthy yeast
keep it sanitary
control fermentation temperatures
Let the yeast work is magic, extended primary
package and server beer appropriately
Click to expand...

Doing pretty much all the stuf above except water. My typical fermentation is 3 weeks in primary then keg. I will say that my two best beers spend 4 and 5 weeks in primary so I think I'll increase this Pale Ale fermenting to 4 weeks.

Starting to think that water could be my next change. Should I use distilled or bottled spring water?
 
If you are doing all of these things as stated above, you may consider other points of view. What I mean by this is that a lot of the things you mentioned are hotly contested on this site. Try different things despite the people who swear up and down they have the answer ie. no secondary.
 
If you do everything else correctly, especially sanitation and fermentation, you don't need an extended primary. Particularly with a hoppy beer like a pale ale, your aroma is leaving it as you let it sit in the fermenter.

When it's done, it's done. With a proper pitch of yeast the whole "cleaning up" thing takes a day at most.
 
If you have the extra time and money do two batches, one with spring water and one with tap. I found out my tap was treated with chloramine which does not boil off and after I started treating my water the beer did improve.
 
smizak said:
If you do everything else correctly, especially sanitation and fermentation, you don't need an extended primary. Particularly with a hoppy beer like a pale ale, your aroma is leaving it as you let it sit in the fermenter.

When it's done, it's done. With a proper pitch of yeast the whole "cleaning up" thing takes a day at most.
Click to expand...

Ditto this - I used to leave average strength beers in the primary for 3-4 weeks, since I started oxygenating and pitching the proper amount of healthy yeast I find that most beers under 1.060 are fine to keg within 7-10 days of pitching. With a yeast like 002 I'm drinking clear beer 10-11 days after brew day. They typically improve in the keg for a week or two, but not by too much.
 
I didnt have time to read through all the posts but maybe try these things if they havent already been suggested.

pitch temp - pitch a few degrees below what you ferment at
kegging - my beers always come out better in the keg
zero in on one style - change same things and find out what works best for you. The first two years of my brewing I only made RIS then the nest two years I only made IPA.
 
revolutioned, great point about trying something different. I've been doing longer primaries because they seemed to work out well the first two times I've done them (6 batches now). However, I've only had my really good fermentation techniques in place for one complete beer and one in the fermenter, so maybe I don't need the long primary any more. I'll take a reading on my Pale Ale tonight to see how it's coming and possibly keg this weekend. It has been in the fermenter for 8 days and it is still bubbling though. I'm thinking that maybe this one I keg at 14 days max, regardless, to test this theory.

Here's a link to my water report. If the link doesn't work just google "decatur IL water report". Anything stand out? I'm thinking that my next brew will use distilled water, but it will be a Pliney clone so that overwhelming hop taste may mask any affects from water difference anyway.

http://www.ci.decatur.il.us/publicinformation/2011 Water Quality Report.pdf
 
bob3000 said:
you want something you can drink 5 gallons of and not get too sick of.
Click to expand...

I've made some really good beers (and some really bad ones) and I still haven't had anything that I want to drink 5 gallons of with nothing else mixed in. One of the biggest improvments I made was getting a pipeline going to allow the beer time to set, and to give me some variaty.

To the OP, what commercial beers do you really like, and what recipies are you making? If your a Bud Lite fan, and you are making IPAs you are never going to be happy, or if you love IPAs and making Stouts, same thing. There are also a lot more subtle differences than this that can turn you off.

Does Austin, NB, or someone else have a clone of a commercial beer you like? Give one of them a shot and see how close it is.
 
JeepDiver said:
To the OP, what commercial beers do you really like, and what recipies are you making? If your a Bud Lite fan, and you are making IPAs you are never going to be happy, or if you love IPAs and making Stouts, same thing. There are also a lot more subtle differences than this that can turn you off.

Does Austin, NB, or someone else have a clone of a commercial beer you like? Give one of them a shot and see how close it is.
Click to expand...

I like crisp, clean American IPA's and PA's mostly. Made a double batch of IPA over Christmas with 1272 and 007. Didn't really like the 007, but that is OK, have to learn. So that is where I went with my Amber, back to 1056 and made it hoppy, although you can argue that the Amber is more malty. The Pale Ale fermenting now is basically a lower gravity (1.052) IPA made with Chinook throughout and Citra late. Pliney clone is up next, but I'm kind of reconsidering that because it 12 oz of hops doesn't exactly fit the "simple" mantra.

I did make a really awesome clone (more "inspired" rather than "clone") of a Two Brother's Resistance IPA, my best beer yet. That one wasn't exactly simple either, but it worked out (you can find some threads on here I started about it). Maybe I should go back to that and replicate my recipe to see how it responds to the fermentation improvements I've made since then.
 
Make sure to aggressively aerate the wort and pitch at a little higher than necessary rate to be safe and ferment in the 60's.

I've made some bad batches along the way more than a few times including some bitter batches that I wonder if may be due to long cold break periods while sitting in the tub. I've also had pour fermentation activity which I attribute to possibly under aerating as well as very quick activity that finishes in a few days and tastes bad most likely from high temps. My latest venture includes pressurized fermentation, hop filtering and wort chilling. When I last tasted my caribou slobber fermenting in the keg, it was very pleasant tasting. So moral to the story is to keep plugging away with new ideas.:fro:
 
cm02WS6 said:
revolutioned, great point about trying something different. I've been doing longer primaries because they seemed to work out well the first two times I've done them (6 batches now). However, I've only had my really good fermentation techniques in place for one complete beer and one in the fermenter, so maybe I don't need the long primary any more. I'll take a reading on my Pale Ale tonight to see how it's coming and possibly keg this weekend. It has been in the fermenter for 8 days and it is still bubbling though. I'm thinking that maybe this one I keg at 14 days max, regardless, to test this theory.

Here's a link to my water report. If the link doesn't work just google "decatur IL water report". Anything stand out? I'm thinking that my next brew will use distilled water, but it will be a Pliney clone so that overwhelming hop taste may mask any affects from water difference anyway.

http://www.ci.decatur.il.us/publicinformation/2011%20Water%20Quality%20Report.pdf
Click to expand...

Need a more comprehensive report. What is on there seems normal.
 
In regard to the OP. All I can say is that the first beer that I made was one of my favorites, and yes I would drink that over many store bought ones. I'm no genius brewer, no all grain, just kept it simple. It was an IPA, which honestly I have never had a bad IPA, but mine turned out better than I could hope for.
 
Since you're doing extract, Distilled or Spring will both work fine. Mineral makeup comes into play with AG brewing when you actually need conversion. Just use distilled water on your next batch and see what you get. Do you do yeast starters or just direct pitch? That would be the other big game changer to incorporate.

Like Bernerbrau said, pitching rate, fermentation temperature, and water quality
 
I'd say to find a simple variety that you like, based on commercial examples, and focus on identifying what is different about yours. It could well be that you're doing fine, producing outstanding examples of beers that just don't suit your palate.

I'm very new, having only gotten one batch all the way through the pipeline, but early samples of the next couple batches seem to be on track to be competitive with store-bought beers. They're very different beers (started with an ordinary bitter, then a stout, and most recently a Kolsch), but I also have a fairly broad taste in beers. The only things I really don't go for are sweet belgian or barleywine type beers or super-hoppy IPAs. Thus, even if I miss on a style I'll probably still like the beer.

The first two of these were DME + specialty grains only, and the Kolsch is a partial mash. So I don't think extract twang or DME-related issues are enough to take a beer from solid down to disappointing. There is probably something else going on.

So, I guess I'd suggest taking a scientific approach, choosing something where you know that a successful outcome is a beer that you will like, and repeating it again and again, changing one variable at a time. This is about the only way I know to guarantee that you eventually find the problem. It can be slow and painstaking, and you'll have to drink a lot of beer along the way... but somebody has to do it.

Actually, one other possibility would be to drop down to 1-2 gallon batches. That'll save money and may shorten some elements of the process (boiling/cooling/bottling).
 
mewithstewpid said:
WATER!

then yeast count and temp

then DME over LME if only extract

definitely need good water
Click to expand...

I'd disagree with the dme over lme part. Always had amazing beers with lme, not so much with dme.
 
mewithstewpid said:
to each his own! i can only attest to my personal experiences! ah the art of brewing
Click to expand...

Agreed. If people from here would look into my brewing process they would laugh and make fun probably, but I get great beer at the end...so I had no need to change. By that I mean I don't so starters, I have no fermentation chamber and I do extract.
 

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