Hop sched help. Need to tone down IBU without losing hoppiness

[forces]

I am developing an Amarillo/ Simcoe IPA for a camping trip this September. I am looking for something that is going to be crazy citrusy on the aroma and flavor, but not melt your face off with tremendous IBUs.

This "problem" is also going to be accentuated by the fact that the beer has to be ready by the middle of Sept. So its going to be young... IE more bitter out of the bottle.
I have 6 oz Amarillo and 6 oz of Simcoe to work with

This is what I have, but the IBUs are still a little on the high end for what I want. any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. As it stands the IBUs are 115


Amt Name Type # %/IBU
12 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 84.2 %
4.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 2 1.8 %
2 lbs Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 5 14.0 %
1.0 pkg American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [124.21 ml] Yeast 12 -

0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 3 13.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Simcoe [12.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 4 18.7 IBUs

1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 24.0 IBUs

0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 7 7.3 IBUs
0.50 oz Simcoe [12.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 8 10.3 IBUs

2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 17.4 IBUs
2.00 oz Simcoe [12.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 24.6 IBUs

1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 11 0.0 IBUs

1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs

 

[Yooper]

I'd move the 60 minute amarillo hops to later in the boil. And probably go with the FWH/15/5/0 hopping schedule, increasing the addtions for more flavor/aroma.

Something like this:

1 oz bittering hops (any kind) for about 35-40 Ibus at FWH
1 oz amarillo 15 minutes
1 oz simcoe 10 minutes
1 oz amarillo 5 minutes
1 oz simcoe 0 minutes
1 oz Amarillo 0 min
Dryhop with .5 oz simcoe and 1 oz

If the OG is 1.070, getting 60-70 IBUs (mostly in late hops) would be a good goal.

 

[Natethebrewer]

I could be wrong but I thought dry hoping added mostly aroma and not much in the line of bitterness.
I would move your big additions late in the boil, I.e: 2 oz and 5min, instead of 1 oz at 0min.
Personally I would boil for 90 and hop every 5 or 10 minutes, that would extract lots of flavor and aroma that way

 

[Golddiggie]

Have you thought about hop bursting?? Make all the hop additions starting 20 minutes from the end of the boil. How much you use it up to you, to get your target. I would move the flavor addition to about 15 minutes, and do a 10, 5, and 0 addition for more aroma. I'd do the dry hoping for 6 or 7 days.

I removed the 60 minute boil (1oz Amarillo Gold) and made the following hop additions. Cut the IBUs almost in half, but you'll still get lots of flavor and aroma from them. BTW, I kept the FWH additions.

0.50 oz Amarillo Gold Boil 15 min
0.50 oz Simco Boil 15 min
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold Boil 10 min
0.50 oz Simco Boil 10 min
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold Boil 5 min
0.50 oz Simco Boil 5 min
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold Boil 0 min

 

[bobbrews]

Do you want a simple, thin bodied, high alcohol, very bitter, low sweetness IIPA? Because that's what you have now, especially if you mash low. A little body and lower sugar may help give you a better beer... along with a yeast starter of course.

I would personally skip the FWH and simply bitter with 1 ounce, add a small charge at 30, and then pound it out with 7 oz of late additions and a 4 oz dryhop for 7-10 days. After all, this is an IIPA, not an IPA.

 

[Yooper]

Personally I would boil for 90 and hop every 5 or 10 minutes, that would extract lots of flavor and aroma that way

Actually, the reverse is true. The longer a hop is boiled, the more bitterness you extract. Any hops added before about 20 minutes left in the boil give very little flavor or aroma, but do impart bitterness.

For a more bitter beer, adding hops before 20 minutes left in the boil will give more bittering, with the majority of the hops oils isomerized by 60 minutes (although you do get a tiny bit more bitterness out of a 90 minute boil for hops). The later a hop is added, the more flavor and aroma you get out of it.

For a traditionally "hoppy" beer, hops are added at times like:

bittering- 60+ minutes
Flavor- 15-20 minutes
Aroma- 5-0 minutes

Dryhopping provides a different type of aroma to the beer- an "uncooked" hops aroma that is awesome in an IPA.

 

[Yooper]

Do you want a simple, thin bodied, high alcohol, very bitter, low sweetness IIPA? Because that's what you have now, especially if you mash low. A little body and lower sugar may help give you a better beer... along with a yeast starter of course.

I would personally skip the FWH and simply bitter with 1 ounce, add a small charge at 30, and then pound it out with 7 oz of late additions and a 4 oz dryhop for 7-10 days. After all, this is an IIPA, not an IPA.

Actually, he said "IPA" in his post. I assumed that is indeed what he meant.

 

[forces]

Thanks for the help. I am trying to kind of re-create an extract brew I did some time ago... only then I was doing about 2.5 gallon boil so my lupulin extraction was significantly less, which allowed my to add ungodly amounts of these hops without getting overly bitter.

I think I may try the hop bursting method.... never really done that before. As for the dry, thin, high alcohol characteristics that come with a recipe like this.... I am going to mash a little hotter than I usually would for an IPA, and the extra glucose is there to help the abv along a little. I have to do this because my mash tun will only hold about 13 # of grain TOPS, and my efficiency isn't great (65% or so). So I work around what I have. And before you ask, I hate using DME or LME. The stuff i have access to makes my beers taste sugary, chemically, flat, and overall not like any AG beer I've ever tasted. I've become somewhat of a extract-biggot.

Actually, he said "IPA" in his post. I assumed that is indeed what he meant.

I usually design my IPAs to sit somewhere between the "IPA" and "IIPA" pigeon-holes. usually somewhere between 6.8-7.5 % ABV.

 

[forces]

revised




0.50 oz Simcoe- First Wort 45.0 min
0.50 oz Simcoe - Boil 45.0 min

1.00 oz Amarillo Gold- Boil 15.0 min
0.50 oz Simcoe - Boil 15.0 min

1.50 oz Amarillo Gold - Boil 10.0 min
1.50 oz Simcoe - Boil 10.0 min

2.00 Items Grapefruit Zest (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 10 min

2.00 oz Amarillo Gold - Boil 0.0 min
2.00 oz Simcoe - Boil 0.0 min

I'll probably dry hop with both for 3-5 days. This puts me at ~90 IBUs,but the hops are from 2012 harvest, so I assume they have lost some bittering power by now.

Thanks again to all for the help

 

[bobbrews]

Actually, he said "IPA" in his post. I assumed that is indeed what he meant.

He also said, "As it is, the IBUs are 115"... With his 10-12 oz. of hops, I simply showed him what he has, not what he's techinically after. His revision puts him at 90 IBUs, still IIPA territory.

No need to get snarky.

 

[bobbrews]

0.50 to 1.00 oz Simcoe - Boil 60.0 min
0.50 to 1.00 oz Simcoe - Boil 30.0 min
2.00 oz Simcoe - Boil 15.0 min
1.00 oz Amarillo - Boil 7.0 min
1.00 oz Simcoe - Boil 7.0 min
2.00 oz Amarillo - Post Boil Warm Aroma Steep 30 min
2.00 oz Amarillo - Dryhop 7 days
1.00 to 2.00 oz Simcoe - Dryhop 7 days

= 10-12 oz. hops

Skip the grapefruit zest and spice. FWH will do nothing for a good IIPA in my opinion.

 

[Yooper]

He also said, "As it is, the IBUs are 115"... With his 10-12 oz. of hops, I simply showed him what he has, not what he's techinically after. His revision puts him at 90 IBUs, still IIPA territory.

No need to get snarky.

Snarky? I certainly did not intend to sound snarky, simply mentioned that the hops schedule I posted was for an IPA which is what the OP said he was looking for. I'm sorry if it sounded snarky.

 

[bobbrews]

Yooper, I know you're awesome. So does everyone else here, so no disrespect. But yeah, it seemed kind of snarky. Cheers

What do you think about the zest and spice additions that a lot of new brewers try to add to their IPAs/IIPAs?

 

[Yooper]

What do you think about the zest and spice additions that a lot of new brewers try to add to their IPAs/IIPAs?

Well, my momma taught me "if you can't say anything nice....." so that is why I didn't say anything.

I really have no experience with zest in an IPA besides judging a few over the years. I understand the "why" of it- to bring a citrusy flavor and aroma to the beer. In the few that I've tried, though, I've found that it seems to bring a bitterness to the beer that is out of place. I didn't care for it at all. It may work better in a beer like a cream ale where maybe some lime zest would be wanted, but it is not to my taste at all and I wouldn't do it.

I think it'd be far better to serve the beer with a slice of lemon or orange or whatever than to put the zest in the batch, unless doing a wit where it was desired. But I am NOT a fruit beer fan at all, and for an IPA/IIPA I think the best place to get that awesome citrusy aroma is from late additions of hops like amarillo, cascade, ahtanum, etc.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

I usually design my IPAs to sit somewhere between the "IPA" and "IIPA" pigeon-holes. usually somewhere between 6.8-7.5 % ABV.

Me too! Style guidelines are for the birds when it comes to hoppiness in an IPA, IMO.

 

[forces]

I really have no experience with zest in an IPA besides judging a few over the years. I understand the "why" of it- to bring a citrusy flavor and aroma to the beer. In the few that I've tried, though, I've found that it seems to bring a bitterness to the beer that is out of place. I didn't care for it at all. It may work better in a beer like a cream ale where maybe some lime zest would be wanted, but it is not to my taste at all and I wouldn't do it.

I think it'd be far better to serve the beer with a slice of lemon or orange or whatever than to put the zest in the batch, unless doing a wit where it was desired. But I am NOT a fruit beer fan at all, and for an IPA/IIPA I think the best place to get that awesome citrusy aroma is from late additions of hops like amarillo, cascade, ahtanum, etc.

I agree, a garnish in most cases is better than adding zest. I chose to zest based the following reasons:

1. I recently did a honey orange wheat with orange zest, which may have been the most favorable beer that I have ever brewed. To top it off, I created my own orange extract that I added to half of the batch during bottling. It seriously enhanced the beer, and staved off the oxidized flavors.

2. I recently tasted Widmere's Rotator shaddock IPA brewed with "grapfruit peels". They did a craft for the summer ale fest here in portland that was fantastic. The shaddock, however, was too dry, WAY to bitter for this type of beer, and they seemed to have skimped big time of the aroma and flavor hops. I sought to do it better.

3. This is a beer that I am brewing for a camping trip. Garnishing with grapefruit to begin with, I assume, is an enormous pain in the neck... not to mention while camping

I brewed this beer today with the previously posted hop schedule. I added the zest, and the kettle smelled better than I could have guessed. I'll post up when its done and tasted.