Hop bursting...Too much?

[eon]

Thanks Steelers77! I can only do a 3 gallon boil and then I top off with a couple of gallons of water in the fermenter. What can you recommend to help with wort loss due to the high amount of hops?

 

[whatsleftofyou]

Awesome, I'm glad somebody chimed in with this. Can you give us some more description about your beer? Was the problem with too much sweetness? Or just a lack of that bitter pop? How did you feel about the hop flavor and aroma?

The flavor and aroma were great (even without dry hopping), but it just didn't have the bitterness. It did seem sweet due to the lack of balance and that I used citrusy hops. That said, it was a very drinkable beer, just seemed more like a citrusy pale ale than an IPA.

I'm no expert but I just want to add that "whatsleftofyou" only used 4 oz. of hops in the entire beer and put them all in @ 15 minutes.

My beer will have 15 oz. of hops total. 1 oz. every minute for the last 13 minutes of the boil and 2 oz. for dry hopping.

If I end up with 30-35 IBUs perceived or otherwise...something is wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't asserting that it was exactly the same but I thought it was good evidence to share since it is a similar experiment. I'm not familiar with the hop you're using, but to be honest I think you're going to get a ton of hop astringency. The only way any of us will know for sure is if you brew it up and share your results, so if you want to do it, DO IT! I'm all for experimentation!

 

[Steelers77]

maybe use a bag holder. see link:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/do-i-need-build-hop-bag-fryer-108303/

 

[funkswing]

I think that adding 2 tsp of gypsum will help with your hop bursting. It will increase the perceivable bitterness of the beer, even without a 60 min hop addition. Plus gypsum additions are totally acceptable for the IPA style.

Also, I have never solely hop bursted a >1.060 beer. Just seems silly to me.

I crunched your numbers and got OG 1.060 (with only 3 gal or wort being boiled) and IBU's of ~180 (which doesn't mean much other than it will be bitter)

This would prolly be too bitter for that OG. If you go to 8 lbs of DME, the IBUs drop to ~160, and the OG becomes 1.079. That would be one hell of an IPA. Oh, and color is 10 srm with 8 lbs DME.

Its debatable if you need any crystal at all for a beer with that much malt. The crystal is only going to inhibit the attenuation of the beer, which is already not controllable with extract brews. If you don't have body in a 1.079 OG beer made with 100% extract then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[whatsleftofyou]

I did add gypsum to mine and forgot to mention it, so I wouldn't expect that to be the saving grace even though it does help.

 

[Retrofit]

Thanks retrofit! I'll do it.

a couple of questions:

Is this an ok base for both recipes?

6 lbs. light DME
1 lbs. crystal 40

BEER #1
----------------
base of 6# dme and 1# C40 with the hop schedule of
1 oz. of apollo for every minute of the last 13 minutes of the boil. Then dry hop with 2 oz. of apollo.

BEER #2
----------------
base of 6# dme and 1# of C40.

How many oz. of hops at 60, 30, 15? 1 oz.?

so that would be a total of 3 oz. in the boil and then 2 oz. dry hop.

You asked me a question, I'll try to answer but I need to clarify a few points.

A)I've never hop burst
B)I've never used Appollo
C)I've never brewed with that much hops.

So I feel completely unprepared to answer your question concerning recipe construction or how to compensate for wort loss due to a MASSIVE introduction of hops.

My favorite SMASH (single malt and single hop) is Fuggle and Maris Otter.

I've used this combination of One malt, and one hop and Noddingham to make my base beer, a go to session beer that everyone likes. I've also used this combination of one malt and one hop to try every trick I can think of (except hop burst).

First wort additions, dry hop, dry hop gyle, heavy in the back, heavy in the front (but never more than 3 ounces).

My quantities are always the same, how I use them is different.
This has allowed me to learn a lot about different tricks.
After I did these "all quantities are equal" I've done things like upped the hops in the brew (except hop burst- lol).
What I've learned is more isn't always better. Longer isn't always better.

Like many homebrewer's I'm a frugal bastard.

If I were so bold as to make a suggestion, this is what it would be:

Save your money.

Make the SMASH first.

LME
Crystal whatever
Appollo, 1 oz at 30, 15, 7ish.

By putting them closer to the end you'll focus more on flavor and aroma.

Make this beer and drink a few.

If you don't like it, your not going to like 'more it' by doing a hop burst.

If you do like it, this is what I would do next.

Make the same beer except do this:
LME
Crystal whatever
Appollo 1 oz in the kettle as you heat your beer to boil.
This is a basicaly a "first wort hopping". Look it up to learn more.
1/2 oz at 15ish.
1/2 oz at 7ish.

Cool your beer.

Ok this next part could get a lot of hits saying I'm wrong.

I'm not doing any math, I'm working in the realm of vagaries. So I encourage you to do some research and use math to figure out a better ratio.

I encourage you to draw off "gyle" from your wort, set it aside so you can use this carbonate your beer.

This is what your going to do, and a lot of people can say my amount is wrong. It's wrong, again I'm not doing the math.

I would take your cooled wort and draw 3/4's of a gallon. I would add 1/2 an oz to this container, put a stopper or cap (not tight- it might release some carbonation) and put this in your refrigerator. When your beer is fermented, you dump this gyle you collected into the fermented beer, put it in bottles, and cap it. The unfermented wort will carbonate in the bottle.

The rest of the wort I would add yeast to and dry hop with the last 1/2 oz of hops.

You have dry hopped both your wort and gyle, focusing your hops on flavor and aroma.


So your recipe will look like this:
1 oz first wort hopping
1/2 at 15
1/2 at 7
1/2 in gyle
1/2 dry hop

Now you are using 3 oz of hops that will focus on flavor and aroma, and not dumping a lot of money into something you might not like.

This has nothing to do with hop bursting, but is based on techniques that focus on flavor and aroma.

Sort of very different than what you plan to do, but it's a more cost effective method to get your goal of flavor and aroma. Is this very different than hop bursting? I dunno. I've never hop burst! However this is basically the technique I use to pull flavor and aroma that few of my local brewers can replicate. So... that's what I would.

If you disagree with me, I'm a grown up and willing to learn so tell me why I'm wrong.