Hop Aroma Off in my IPA

[rdg929]

Hey all - been browsing for a couple weeks on phone app and loving it. I've been befuddled by my recent IPAs. 3 different beers IPAs, all with plenty of hops but all seriously lacking aroma. I've brewed 30 - 40 beers but took about year off prior to these. Can't say I specifically remember this problem, but was also never thrilled with my IPAs, which is why I am trying so many. All thoughts extremely appreciated!

Details:

All - Whole house filtered water profile in first recipe below from ward labs, keggles, batch sparging, mesh hop bag used for 2 of 3, all 2 packs dry saf-ale 05 no starter, mash temp 151, fermenting at 62 - 65 water bath, primary 2 weeks, secondary 55-60 degrees 1 week with dry hops, to bottle.

Brew 1:
OG - 1.058 FG - 1.010
Anticipated IBU: 96.7
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes


% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
86.8 12.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) America 1.036 2
2.4 0.33 lbs. Crystal 40L America 1.034 40
5.4 0.75 lbs. Cara-Pils Dextrine Malt 1.033 2
5.4 0.75 lbs. Corn Sugar Generic 1.046 0

Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.50 oz. Columbus Pellet 15.00 29.3 First WH
2.00 oz. Cascade Pellet 5.75 25.5 30 min.
1.00 oz. Cascade Pellet 5.75 10.1 25 min.
1.00 oz. Summit Pellet 17.60 12.7 5 min.
1.50 oz. Summit Pellet 17.60 19.1 2 min.
1.50 oz. Summit Pellet 17.60 0.0 0 min.
3.50 oz. Columbus Pellet 15.00 0.0 Dry Hop

White Labs WLP001 California Ale


Water Profile
Profile: 338 Woodside

Calcium(Ca): 36.0 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 10.0 ppm
Sodium(Na): 12.0 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 9.0 ppm
Chloride(Cl): 22.0 ppm
biCarbonate(HCO3): 115.0 ppm

pH: 7.80

1 gram per gallon Gypsum in boil


Brew 2

OG - 1.064 FG - 1.012
Anticipated IBU: 93.1

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
5.7 0.75 lbs. Corn Sugar Generic 1.046 0
83.6 11.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) America 1.036 2
5.0 0.66 lbs. Crystal 40L America 1.034 40
5.7 0.75 lbs. Cara-Pils Dextrine Malt 1.033 2

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 oz. Cascade Pellet 5.00 19.8 First WH
1.00 oz. Cascade Pellet 5.75 12.9 30 min.
1.00 oz. Zythos Pellet 10.90 24.5 30 min.
2.00 oz. Zythos Pellet 10.90 25.6 15 min.
1.00 oz. Columbus Pellet 13.90 10.2 5 min.
2.00 oz. Zythos Pellet 10.90 0.0 0 min.
1.00 oz. Cascade Pellet 5.75 0.0 Dry Hop
1.00 oz. Zythos Pellet 10.90 0.0 Dry Hop

1 gram per gallon Gypsum in boil


Brew 3
OG - 1.065 FG - 1.011
Anticipated IBU: 123.2

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.9 0.13 lbs. Crystal 105L Great Britain 1.033 120
88.1 12.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) America 1.036 2
5.5 0.75 lbs. Cane Sugar Generic 1.046 0
5.5 0.75 lbs. Corn Sugar Generic 1.046 0

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.50 oz. Columbus Pellet 13.90 30.1 60 min.
1.00 oz. Cascade Pellet 5.00 13.6 35 min.
1.00 oz. Centennial Pellet 8.70 23.6 35 min.
1.50 oz. Columbus Pellet 13.90 24.0 15 min.
1.00 oz. Chinook Pellet 11.80 13.6 15 min.
1.00 oz. Cascade Pellet 5.00 3.6 5 min.
1.00 oz. Centennial Pellet 8.70 6.3 5 min.
1.00 oz. Chinook Pellet 11.80 8.5 5 min.
1.00 oz. Centennial Pellet 8.70 0.0 Dry
1.00 oz. Chinook Pellet 11.80 0.0 Dry
1.00 oz. Columbus Pellet 13.90 0.0 Dry

No Gypsum

 

[cwheel]

I think you've lost your sense of smell

But seriously, 11 oz of hops in those recipes and you couldn't smell the hop aroma?

Or is it that you don't like the smell?

Have you done a recipe where you've tried to keep it simple (the hopping)?

Like a single variety for a 60 min and 15 minute addition, and then another variety for flameout and dry hop?

 

[rdg929]

I get some aroma but my brew buddy totally agrees its low. Put next to commercial examples and it pales in comparison. What aroma I do get we might describe as grass/herbal but even that is too low. Not getting the bright citrus / fruity. One of my thoughts would be overkilling with late and dry hop with the grassy notes but it does not address the lack of aroma. I haven't brewed something simpler in a while so I can't comment on that.

 

[TheOneBuz]

Could it be that the hops arent very fresh?

 

[punkrockdave]

I keep all my hops in a vacuum sealed bag so they stay fresh. Not sure if that will help.

 

[rdg929]

Thanks for the quick responses! Hops were from Northern Brewer delivered about a week before brewing- kept cold.

 

[punkrockdave]

And they remained sealed?

 

[rdg929]

Yes until brewing...

 

[henryred]

What temperature is your beer you are drinking? If it is cold enough you will lose over half the smell. I found this out with Raging ***** by Flying Dog. Go buy 2 bottles of ipa(same). Put one in fridge(30's) one on counter. Next day crack them open and pour into same size glasses. You will see a night and day difference in taste and smell. I like the Raging ***** in the 60's.

 

[bobbrews]

Get the sulfate & chloride to the appropriate levels and reduce bicarbonate. Calcium could be higher as well. Avoid going in the 50's. Stay in the low to mid 60's initially, and gradually increase to about 68 F later on. Bitter with 5% of your hops and skip anything between 55-20 minutes. Focus more on hopbursting. Get yourself some CITRA, or to a lesser extent Amarillo. Do FULL WORT BOILS!!! Can't stress that last one enough!

 

[rdg929]

Henryred - drinking at 50-55 degrees.

Bobbrews - Looking at my water profile below, I think my sulfates and cholrides are within range? Also, bicarbonate seems to be ok too? I've been adjusting calcium with gypsum which is also bringing up sulfates, but still below Burton on Trent, etc. Ferm temps are above 62 and increased later. Hopbursting? And I do full wort boils.

Calcium(Ca): 36.0 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 10.0 ppm
Sodium(Na): 12.0 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 9.0 ppm
Chloride(Cl): 22.0 ppm
biCarbonate(HCO3): 115.0 ppm

pH: 7.80



Thanks for taking the time everyone. My thoughts to possibly alter are:

-Use spring water for a batch.
-Split batch Safale 05 vs. maybe Wyeast 1028, which I've enjoyed in past.
-My water with ph 5.2 buffer.
-Whole leaf vs. pellets.
-Whirlpool, avoid mesh hop bag.

Thanks again,
Ryan

 

[bobbrews]

I suggest posting in the Brew Science thread about your water and whether or not it is the cause of reduced hop character in your IPA. - I believe it is. Sulfate to Chloride ratio should be 2:1 and much higher than where you're at. Calcium is less than ideal and Bicarbonate is def on the high side. Sodium and Mag are good.

ph 5.2 buffer doesn't work as advertised - there are numerous discussions about this in the Brew Science thread as well.

Hop bursting, in a nutshell, is using 95-100% of your total hops late (15-0) - I always add a nice dryhop to this, but you can get away without the bittering addition entirely... or by using 1/2 of what you normally use if you still want to keep a bittering addition.

 

[rdg929]

Thanks Bobbrews will do

 

[bruin_ale]

I suggest posting in the Brew Science thread about your water and whether or not it is the cause of reduced hop character in your IPA. - I believe it is. Sulfate to Chloride ratio should be 2:1 and much higher than where you're at. Calcium is less than ideal and Bicarbonate is def on the high side. Sodium and Mag are good.

The profile he showed was the water before he adds 1g per gal of gypsum. That should be putting his Sulfates and Calcium into a pretty good range. Certainly much higher than the 2:1 ratio you mention.

That said, you could add a bit more than that without causing flavor issues, I use 8g of gypsum in my IPA with 45ppm Sulfates already in my water.

 

[bobbrews]

1 g in a 6 gallon boil / 5 gallon batch won't do as much as you think. For reference, 4 grams of gypsum is one level teaspoon.

 

[bruin_ale]

1g per gal would add about 80ppm Sulfates and 35ppm Ca.
Pretty reasonable starting place..

 

[DSmith]

I've noticed that getting away from hop bags (really fine mesh bags) and chilling as fast as possible (wort chiller with some motion in the kettle to improve heat transfer) improved aroma hops.