homebrewing costs

[sean6247]

I started brewing to aviod the taxes associated with beer/alcohol. In California, the excise taxes on these items are pretty steep. By brewing my own beer I aviod paying those taxes. I would gladly pay more (and with all the equipment, fuel, evergy to run kegorators and fermentors, ingredients, sanitizers,and my time... I probably do) to brew my beer than to purchase commercial products just to aviod the tax.

 

[DrJerryrigger]

I started brewing to aviod the taxes associated with beer/alcohol. In California, the excise taxes on these items are pretty steep. By brewing my own beer I aviod paying those taxes. I would gladly pay more (and with all the equipment, fuel, evergy to run kegorators and fermentors, ingredients, sanitizers,and my time... I probably do) to brew my beer than to purchase commercial products just to aviod the tax.

Yeah, stick it to the man!:rockin:

 

[beerloaf]

I brew for the same reason why I built my own deck, intalled a new patio door, work on my car, fix my own pc, the list goes on. I enjoy it and I take pride and satisfaction in knowing that I made something for myself and others to enjoy. Is it cheap? No certainly not with the equipment costs, and time involved. As I told SWMBO, it's still way cheaper than crack or going to the brothel.

beerloaf

 

[bottlebomber]

I dunno, there doesn't seem to be any shortage of crack lately...

 

[huge1s]

I have actually done the math and keep track of it in a spreadsheet. Everyone's situation is different... but I am making the same quality beer (or better) for half the cost. And that is with buying kits and fresh yeast. I will have my equipment paid for in 3-4 batches. I should say that I already had a turkey fryer and an old cooler for a mash tun, so I am not counting those equipment costs.

I also don't put a dollar amount on my brew time. Maybe it is different for some of you... but if I didn't brew, I would do something else that I get enjoyment out of. I am not missing out on additional pay because I am brewing beer.

 

[Bumbler]

I don't brew because it's cheaper, or because it's a creative artsy process. I brew because it irritates the neighbor. It irritates 'em that I spend so much time in the back yard. She won't come out if me or my wife is outside. On the rare occasion she does, she says, "what are you doing - brewing beer." That's why I brew, sticking it to the neighbor.

 

[BierKoning]

The best (most accurate) way for me to break it down is the cost of what I drink by ounce.

An average 6-pack of craft beer in SoCal costs me about $10. Sometimes less, sometimes more, but $10 after tax/CRV is a good average. This equals:

6bottles*12oz = 72oz = $0.138/oz

I also frequently buy 22oz bombers of beer that I can't find in a 6-pack. A good average for a bomber is $5 after tax/CRV. This equals:

1bottle*22oz = 22oz = $0.227/oz

Additionally, I'm not one to shy away from buying the 750ml Belgian, and these are considerably more expensive. A good average is $10/bottle. This equals:

1bottle*25.36oz = 25.36oz = $0.394/oz

A weighted average to compensate for the type of beer that I drink most often would be weighted pretty consistently at 65/25/10. This equals:

((.138*.65)+(.227*.25)+(.394*.1))/3 = $0.185/oz

So, IF I purchased a 5gal batch at my normal average price of purchasing craft beer, I would be spending:

128oz/gal * 5gal = 640oz*$0.185/oz = $118.4/batch !!!!!!!!!!!!


Therefore, as long as I'm spending LESS than $118.4 on ingredients for a 5gal batch, I'm saving money!

TO JUSTIFY TO SWMBO:

At my present rate of drinking an average of 40beers/mo. and if I purchased every single ounce, this equals:

40beers*12oz = 480oz * $0.185/oz = $88.80/mo on purchased beer

So, If I brew a batch, say even an expensive IIPA batch, at $50, this equals:

$50/640oz = $0.078/oz and then 480oz*$0.078/oz = $37.5/month

BUT HONEY, I'M ACTUALLY SAVING US $88.8-$37.5= $51.3/MONTH!!!!

 

[phidelt1499]

Brewing is a relatively cheap hobby. Plus you get beer at the end

Compare brewing to golfing, restoring old cars, motorcycles, hunting, etc... it's actually a very reasonable hobby in terms of cost.

My two brothers-in-law have literally spent thousands on hunting stuff. I built my electric PID controlled brew system and my kegerator for what they spend per year on camo, guns, tags, etc... They get venison. I get beer

 

[lou2row]

I fish:
Boat $9,000; replacing equipment $700/year; more tackle than ten men can carry @$10,000 over twenty years. I catch and release bass, so get fish only when walleye fishing a couple times a year.

Cigars: I have a couple thousand at $2 to $10 each

Gardening: Shoot a few hundred every spring around the house and koi ponds

This hobby has an end product. And my wife drinks and enjoys robust beers like I do, so she sees a plus to doing it. I had a gambling problem and started making my own lures to keep me out of the clubs. I didn't save money doing it, unless you figured the $10,000 a year I was losing playing the machines.

 

[Clann]

B.O.A.T
Bust
Out
Another
Thousand

 

[rexbanner]

I fish:
Boat $9,000; replacing equipment $700/year; more tackle than ten men can carry @$10,000 over twenty years. I catch and release bass, so get fish only when walleye fishing a couple times a year.

Cigars: I have a couple thousand at $2 to $10 each

Gardening: Shoot a few hundred every spring around the house and koi ponds

I envy you.

I've seen quite a few of these threads. You have to purposely chose to operate at a loss if you're not saving any money. I'm not criticizing people who do, I would myself if I had the cash.

I do 5 gallon batches, and the only possible pieces of equipment I could use that could help me produce better beer are a stir plate and refractometer, neither which are necessary. I have every other goody that could possibly make you better beer or make brewing easier.

I have over 12 gallons of Belgian strong ales sitting around. That would retail for nearly 600 dollars. It cost me a hundred bucks to make them.

 

[Skarekrough]

Fact of the matter is that I get to make beer to suit my own tastes and likes. That sort of customization is near priceless.

 

[Backporchbrewery]

I live in Mississippi. Sometimes the ONLY way to get good beer here is to make it yourself.

 

[Werbi]

I don't believe it's cheaper... accounting for equipment costs I'm around $3/12oz after 18 batches (of course, I keep buying toys and could recoup some should I sell them... but I just want more!) with ingredients well under 40¢ for all but the biggest beers. Considering that I give away at least 2/3 of my homebrew my cost is closer to $9/12oz serving consumed. It's fun learning, experimenting, sharing, consuming but financially I'm only marginally ahead of hitting local craft bars during happy hour.

Now if I could legally sell my beer......

Werbi

 

[Airborneguy]

I've seen quite a few of these threads. You have to purposely chose to operate at a loss if you're not saving any money.

Agree 100%.

I love these threads because I love reading the wacky justifications the economists of our community come up with to justify how this is not a money-saving hobby. They whip out crazy theories that basically have you factoring in a portion of your mortgage and kid's college tuition into a pint.

Your time as a nobody-joe-citizen is only money if you are gaining or losing money with that time. Give up hours at work to brew? That's costing you money. Give up time sitting on your couch to brew? That's not costing you one single red cent no matter who your economics professor was in college.

A secondary benefit to this hobby for me is that I 100%, positively absolutely save money. I re-use yeast because I believe it works faster and better after a few iterations, I buy all my grains in bulk-buys and I've managed to get crazy deals on all of my kegging equipment and fridges/freezers. In return, I drink or giveaway the equivalent of $100's of dollars of beer a month. Sounds like a great investment to me

 

[bottlebomber]

In return, I drink or giveaway the equivalent of $100's of dollars of beer a month. Sounds like a great investment to me

Hopefully none of it while on duty

 

[Airborneguy]

I'd save even more money if I did Wouldn't have to buy coffee.

 

[MisterGreen]

Definitly an art! You can have so many different tasting beers even in the same style, and that's what makes it so fun! And you must buy BULK to have an $8 batch, I've never brewed a batch for less than $35

Really? I've seen a lot of kits in the low 20s on AHS.

 

[Pogopunx82]

I brew for dirt cheap.

 

[Jsamp]

Honestly I got into brewing to save money. I got into just to make big beers. A typical 4 pack of good big beer is around $3/beer give or take. I can brew the same style/ABV for around $1. My mentality has changed. Its an addiction now. Its a fun hobby. I like to cook and this hobby is the same. With cooking its rewarding eating a good meal. Good beer is no different. Not including equipment it is cheaper. I can brew a 5% abv beer for under $15. There is no place that I can buy 5 gallons of good beer for $15.

 

[remilard]

I have over 12 gallons of Belgian strong ales sitting around. That would retail for nearly 600 dollars. It cost me a hundred bucks to make them.

It costs you a hundred bucks plus tens of hours of leisure time.

12 gallons of american made belgian style beer in kegs would be about $200 and half an hour of leisure time.

 

[osagedr]

Agree 100%.

I love these threads because I love reading the wacky justifications the economists of our community come up with...

Ahem. On behalf of economists, I shall respond to your gauntlet-toss.

The field of microeconomics, broadly speaking, consists of consumer theory and producer theory. In general producer theory focuses on profit-maximizing behaviour of firms. Consumer theory focuses on utility-maximizing behaviour of individuals. "Utility" can be thought of as happiness or satisfaction. I think when people are trying to discuss the economics of homebrewing, they focus too much on the production cost side and not enough on the utility side.

Once we understand that money is only one component of what gives people utility, we can understand why they would brew their own beer even if it costs them more than buying beer would. We brew because it (in general) makes us happy (as most of our hobbies do), regardless of the cost tradeoff between commercial beer and home brew.

So economists are correct in insisting that for cost comparisons alone, equipment, brewing time, etc. should all be factored in. But in spite of that, it's still rational to brew--it must be; we keep doing it!

I like to think of it this way: a Saturday golfing out of town somewhere would probably cost me $80 to $100 by the time I paid green fees, gas to get there, couple of meals, sleeve of balls, whatever. I don't factor my opportunity cost for my time into that so I don't do it when I brew, either. I spend a day having a blast making beer and at the end of it get 50 bottles or more to drink.

 

[Airborneguy]

Ahem. On behalf of economists, I shall respond to your gauntlet-toss.

I did, didn't I

"Utility" can be thought of as happiness or satisfaction.

I'm obviously not a student of economics, but if this is the case, than wouldn't the time spent brewing actually be a "positive" rather than a "negative"? If my time spent brewing is creating satisfaction for me, than in theory it should not factor in as a cost, but rather a benefit, no?

...we can understand why they would brew their own beer even if it costs them more than buying beer would.

Not taking time into account (bear with me for one second), even factoring in equipment (which I do), actual costs are FAR LESS than the equivelent amount of a commercial beer. I believe a discussion regarding quality is pointless because quality is subjective, and I find a lot of the time people wrongly assume that "commercial" always equals "quality" anyway. So beer style to beer style, is it not quite obvious that a brewer who routinely puts out batches of drinkable beer, can easily beat the cost of the equivelent volume of a commercial example, even with equipment considered?

But in spite of that, it's still rational to brew--it must be; we keep doing it!

Agreed, and with your earlier point also that even if I did believe it cost me more money, I would still do it (that's not the case though ).

I don't factor my opportunity cost for my time into that so I don't do it when I brew, either.

This is what I just can't wrap my head around. I understand you don't do it, but others are quite content in factoring that they can make money at any given minute of any given day. That must be some life, walking around an amusement park with your kids all upset that you could be making money instead... I have a job. I work every required hour of that job and make a set salary. I even occasionally do overtime. My leisure time is the time I am not required to be at my job. That leisure time costs me nothing because there is no satisfactory dollar amount to equate it to without taking wild assumptions into account. Call me a simplifier, but it really makes no sense to me how my spending my leisure time brewing is costing me anything.

 

[drunkwookiee]

You make it what it is. If your equipment is given to you or you get it cheap. If you have group buys or a good lhbs, that also helps, Your already gaining. $25 for 5 gals of bad ass beer ain't too bad. Myself, being in s Florida and no brew shops around I have to order all my ingredients. Ferment chamber and all that. Im deffinetly in the red, but I like it and I can afford it so that's all that matters .

Sent from my iPhone using HB Talk

 

[sean6247]

My leisure time is the time I am not required to be at my job. That leisure time costs me nothing because there is no satisfactory dollar amount to equate it to without taking wild assumptions into account. Call me a simplifier, but it really makes no sense to me how my spending my leisure time brewing is costing me anything.

In my case, specifically, I am a licensed soccer referee. When I referee games I make anywhere between $35 and $75 depending on the level and duration of the match. There are soccer games to be refereed going on all the time, weekdays weekends, evenings..... almost always.

So for me, choosing to partake in a hobby (brewing) comes at an opportunity cost of referring soccer games. That does not mean that I want to spend all my free time referring (Diminishing utility). But, just to serve as an example of how spending my leisure time brewing can cost me money.

 

[Sparqui]

I never bothered with the cost analysis. I make beer that I like on a family brewday with 4 - 6 brewers participating. Quality family time is priceless. Getting 5 gallons of different beer styles that I like out of the deal is icing on the cake.

The only one I didn't care for was the Red Ale. Before telling my brother his beer was lousy I tried Red Ale at a couple of brewpubs and found his tasted like theirs. He hit the style dead on, I just happen to not care for it. I told him it tasted just like what a Red Ale should.

 

[huge1s]

In my case, specifically, I am a licensed soccer referee. When I referee games I make anywhere between $35 and $75 depending on the level and duration of the match. There are soccer games to be refereed going on all the time, weekdays weekends, evenings..... almost always.

So for me, choosing to partake in a hobby (brewing) comes at an opportunity cost of referring soccer games. That does not mean that I want to spend all my free time referring (Diminishing utility). But, just to serve as an example of how spending my leisure time brewing can cost me money.

You are probably a good example of when it would be appropriate to factor in your opportunity costs in terms of a dollar amount. You are actually giving up dollars in order to do something else. I suppose you could get carried away and say that a salaried person that is not at work is giving up the opportunity to make money elsewhere.... but who is going to find a paying job for 6 hours a month (or however often you brew)?

 

[Airborneguy]

In Sean's case, there is a definable value that can be placed on the hours spent brewing. Even though I still don't believe that should be counted because its still assuming other factors, I'll acede the point in his situation.

But again, in my case I earn a salary. I am not using comp time to take off and am brewing on my regular day off with zero impact to money in or money out. There is no clearly definable way to value my leisure time without making wild assumptions, period. That is why economics should not the be judge of how much my pints cost to produce, but rather simple accounting.

 

[JefeTheVol]

I dont know about you guys, but homebrewing cost me nothing! Its all positives! Even bad batches are positive lessons learned...but hey, Im a beer-half-full kinda guy. But I enjoy reading the economic justifications of other brewers.

 

[bottlebomber]

I dont know about you guys, but homebrewing cost me nothing! Its all positives! Even bad batches are positive lessons learned...but hey, Im a beer-half-full kinda guy. But I enjoy reading the economic justifications of other brewers.

That's amazing! Do you harvest wild grains and hops? Or lift grain sacks off the truck from your LHBS?

 

[makomachine]

Damn the costs - everyone needs a hobby and it might as well be beer for me. Life is too short to be focussed on this stuff - enjoy it while you can as someday that carboy may be too heavy to manage!

 

[osagedr]

Let's put it this way...not only do I not value my leisure time at a rate equal to foregone work time, you'd have to pay me A LOT not to brew.

 

[bottlebomber]

Let's put it this way...not only do I not value my leisure time at a rate equal to foregone work time, you'd have to pay me A LOT not to brew.

Yes! You would have to pay me thousands, and keep me swimming in FREE craft beer. Im plugging that into my spread sheet right now...

 

[sweaterman]

Most hobbies aren't about saving money, they are about having an enjoyable hobby. Fishing doesn't save money, when you add in the cost of a boat! Sewing doesn't save money when you consider the cost of fabric and patterns. The soapmaking stuff (quality oils and butters) is obscenely expensive, and certainly doesn't save any money. Gardening probably does (Bob's obsession) except for the cost of the greenhouse.

But we have custom made duvet covers on the bed, great homemade soaps for showering, and wonderful organic vegetables and fresh fish with our beer.

Life is good.

Nail, head, hammer. Something like that.

 

[remilard]

Let's put it this way...not only do I not value my leisure time at a rate equal to foregone work time, you'd have to pay me A LOT not to brew.

By definition you value leisure time at a higher rate than forgone work.

 

[bottlebomber]

By definition you value leisure time at a higher rate than forgone work.

Not if your unemployed.

 

[Pappers_]

This point has been made in other places on the forums: economics and accounting are different fields and lead you to different approaches to this issue. For me (and most people, I think) the cost of any hobby is an accounting issue, not an economics issue. For me, what my hobby costs me is what shows up on the ledger - its the cash, baby.

 

[KuntzBrewing]

I love reading all this! And like others have said even a bad batch is a lessoned learned, I learned so much off my first all grain! Even tho my brewing usually cost more I didn't start this thread as a complaint, it was just to see why everyone got into brewing, its a great hobby for me and it does save money in the long run!

 

[lumpher]

By definition you value leisure time at a higher rate than forgone work.

since i'm salaried, and get paid anyway... i'd rather be brewing

 

[Steelers77]

I envy you.

I do 5 gallon batches, and the only possible pieces of equipment I could use that could help me produce better beer are a stir plate and refractometer, neither which are necessary. [/B].

And you can make a Stir plate for about $25.

I am fortunate enough to own a homebrewing supply shop so I spend about $8-13 for a 5 gallon batch of beer (depend on yeast, if I buy liquid I spend a bit more. Damn you East Coast Yeast!).

That being said, before I had a store (when I was laid off) I brewed a ton becuase it SAVED me money. Yeah I know if you have a $2500 semi automated rig and you account for that, then you don't save money.

If you brew with a cooler you got 10yrs ago with a copper manifold and ball valve($25) on you turkey fryer from Walmart that 10yrs old ($35) and in your 36qt bayou classic pot ($70) then you will save money.

I actually have all the parts for a Brutus clone (including the stand and 3 keggles) sitting around and I continue to use my old setup. I'm just use to it and I make fantastic beer on it. FYI, I just spent $20 on 8-16oz Daisy Cutters and I;m pretty sure the summer ale I have on tap at my house is better. I'm not saying it;s not a good beer, mine is just fresher.